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  1. Hello! I have been wanting to do this for a few months now, and I finally have the time. As much as I wanted to burn it, I decided to keep my old copy of the notorious So Much More. Why? Because I as much as I hate it now, reading (and re-reading) it was a pivotal event in my life. And I forgot how much I had marked in it. So now, it’s time for me to share and for us to snark together! But first, some background on me and why I was once a Stay at Home Daughter. I grew up with a psychologically and financially abusive father. I hope that most readers here understand that the effects of this can be just as detrimental as physical abuse in it’s own, complex way. Unfortunately, the suffering did not end and begin when he was in the room. His behavior affected my entire family, and being the oldest child, I did pick up many of the proverbial pieces. I was and still am a Christian, and was homeschooled, which I regard as a highly positive experience for me. Because he would become jealous when my mother had friends, his sabotaging efforts often rendered my family somewhat isolated.My brother is special needs, and my sisters are so much younger than for most of my formative years I was the one who brought most of the social interaction into our home. And since my mother was somewhat isolated, and did not dare tell the friends that she did have what was going on, I was the automatic ear that lended her long suffering. As I became a teenager, I was becoming more and more aware of who my dad really was. I did not have much to go off of since he refused to interact with me most of the time, and the times he did usually were forced and disgruntled. The few times we have had positive, natural interaction was because he wanted something. To boot, my family was involved in a horrific church, that my parents were determined to “fix”. I realized how unstable my options for relying on others were, and mixed with a fortitude to not be like my parents, I decided to passionately invest my young adult years into preparing myself for a “true Christian husband”. But I still was not ready to let go of repairing a relationship with my dad, and I wanted my dad to be better for my family’s sake. Lucky for me, we received a Vision Forum catalog in the mail in Fall of 2009 (due to the various Christian homeschooling activities I was involved with) and the rest is history. My Mom immediately ordered “Return of the Daughters” and I was completely dazzled with the idea of a father caring enough to provide for his daughters until their husbands could step in. I was even more smitten with the idea of a father joyfully spending time with his daughter even as an adult. I was not against, nor was I raised against, finding independence of my own through education and/or a career. However, my desire for an authentic, happy relationship with my dad was so strong, I was desparate to find something. How could I get all of this to work though? Enter So Much More. I received it that Christmas and I considered it an answer to prayer. THIS was how I could finally make my dad like me. Upon reading it, I was convinced that this entire time, my father was merely “discouraged” that his wife and daughter were not submitting to his authority, thus he acted out in other ways. Same old Botkin shit - it’s never the man’s fault. I was extra thankful that only would having a submissive heart bring me closer to my dad, but it would someday attract a strong Christian man into my life. It seemed like a win-win. However now, at almost 24, I do not even consider my dad my dad, and I am single woman (living on her own with a new career, yay!) who is very discouraged by men at this time, but I don’t want to let my experience turn me cynical. The long and short of it is that I am equal parts bitter and thankful for how trying to be good SAHD shaped my life, and that I hope this project of mine not only provides productive discourse about the dangers of this brand of femininity, but will also encourage everyone to take ownership of their experiences and look to a better future for themselves. That is easier said than done for me, I am pessimist by nature and struggle with moderate depression. ****If you’re still reading at this point, here’s my plan for contributing to this thread: • As of right now, I plan to to draw my material specifically from my highlighted copy of So Much More from my teen years. • I hope to directly tie in a personal story about my stint as a SAHD along with each critique of whatever passage I once loved. • I will post these periodically, hopefully once a week or so. As for right now, I think this long winded introduction should provide for a good discussion, and I want to answer, clarify, and engage in as much as I can. One last disclaimer: I am almost 24 years old and just recently moved out. This in no way means I held onto a SAHD ideology for that long. In fact, my main reason for staying at home was financial as I was exploring my higher education. Also, as I explained earlier, I have a unique family situation and was quite codependent with my mom. I would say I only subscribed to such fundamentalist beliefs from the time I was 15 to age 19.
  2. dripcurl

    The Wicked Witch of the... Church?

    I have been a part of two churches in my life: One was a toxic church which drove to seek fundamentalism in my teens as my parents insisted in being of part of it. The other was a perfectly decent and kind church that was pleasant for me, but this experience drove me away from church due to my family’s drama. At the former, my parent’s excuse was that they felt like they were “missionaries” to that church. I am starting to realize more and more that my parents’ determination to be the “true Christians” in their churches is a way for them to bond in an otherwise dysfunctional relationship. Of course, the fact that they were/kind of are still participating in such a strange mission is quite a dysfunctional act itself. Although it was hurtful at the time, it’s been fascinating in retrospect how they would twist bad behavior of my dad sometimes into attacks of satan through people in the church. While it was annoying my mom stayed with my father, I am grateful she would call him out on most of his shit. But sometimes, things went very awry... As silly as this sounds, I have a hard time sharing this story with my husband because he already has such strong opinions about my parents, but I remember my ex at the time was a lot more sympathetic to my family and he was astounded at this situation: My dad apparently was checking out a woman at church (no surprise). This took place at the good church, the one I went to as an adult with family. So my mother thought the only logical explanation for this particular situation was that... the woman is a witch. I know. The most embarrassing part? I believed it for a minute. Now, this turned into what is an almost 4 year long battle. I quickly realized what bullshit it was after the first couple of months, but I have since been neutral in appearance and intensely skeptical on the inside. I once even went to my church’s parking lot in the middle of the night one night to “anoint” a place the woman would usually stand with frankincense and a prayer so she would leave the church. Oddly enough she didn’t come to church for several months. Anyway, it’s all completely ludicrous and I am ashamed of my brief participation of what is basically an out-of-control coping mechanism for my mom. But things kept getting worse: my mom believing this gal put curses on people in the church, how she would not walk past the woman so she herself would not get cursed. One time, service was over and I was in the front of the sanctuary talking with the only other person my age in the entire congregation. My family have always been backseat people, and they were gathering their things there and talking with various folk as everyone filtered out. I noticed my parents come and sit towards the front, a little ways from where this girl and I were standing. They both looked annoyed, so I ended my conversation to see if they needed to talk with me (my brother and I drove separately from them most of the time so there was no need to leave together). No, the “witch” was standing by the exit speaking with the pastor, and they did not want to walk past her. I KNOW. Now, I do not care for this woman in the first place. She does come off as ingenuine and there is something that rubs me the wrong way, but I do not possibly think she is witch. What I disbelieve even more than that is the power she could have on folks in the church if she was. I quit attending regularly after an incident that deserves it’s own blog post took place, but I have gone periodically since. One time during one of these visits I was in line for food talking with a family friend and the gal was standing near me, so my mom comes up behind me and puts her hands on me and says “I’m protecting you”. No, you’re not mom. You’re protecting your false sense of security by demonizing this woman. And you wonder why I won’t go to church with you.
  3. Sicily

    Rejecting the SAHD movement

    Here's a piece by a former SAHD on how she came to reject that lifestyle and patriarchy per se. Sounds like this one in particular took it upon herself to begin with and didn't come from a family that enforced it. http://www.ashleyeaster.com/blog/why-im-no-longer-a-stay-at-home-daughter The above is a guest entry on a blog by another former SAHD who now considers patriarchy to be abuse and identifies as a Christian feminist. Here are some writings of another ex-SAHD, one who was quite prominent: https://jasminelholmes.com/regrets-of-staying-home/ https://jasminelholmes.com/the-old-and-new-me/ It's worth pointing out that Jasmine was inveigled into SAHD-hood by the writings of the Botkin sisters. Her parents didn't force her into it, either, though they were supportive of her doing it.
  4. HeatherFeather

    Andrea Reins is Engaged!

    The gent is a father of NINE children! Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aOD9GAu6U0&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2P_73U6_NZVEop-eZ3VuAmI_DCczkzzoHTFFjdxQAKos_4X7WF2v7o6ys
  5. Not sure where to post this so starting here. I am writing fiction about home-schooled SAHD with few social skills and not a whole lot to do. They are fundie "royalty" but have few social skills, poor education, little exposure to the outside world, are one another's "best friends," etc. Father is a patriarch but sort of a dolt and ineffectual abut adored and unquestioningly obeyed the manipulative mother, who is a narcissist and hypochondriac, runs the show. She keeps her daughters infantalized and they adore her and want to please her. Oldest is becoming "old maid" age in their circles. These girls==young women ages 17-23 but I'm using "girls" advisedly-- are beautiful and rich and "royalty" and should be a good catch, but they can't carry on a semblance of a conversation even with most people in their circles. They like to play the piano, act out "plays" and have tea parties. So with not a lot of exposure to this world except for following the Duggar site and watching so many purity ball videos I want to poke my eyes out, I'm looking for families/blogs to follow. Jill Rodriquez seems like a pretty good example. The Seven Sisters actually seem to have too many real interests and skills to fit my narrative. If I'm making any sense, can anyone recommend sites/blogs that have young women who resemble this scenario that I could/should read? I'm especially interested in how very uneducated but totally confident and secure in their superiority write, crazy domineering mothers and fascinations with quack medicine. Thanks Edited to add sorry about the typos but I'm a copy editor and nitpick this all day and don't have the energy; it's not disrespect just can't keep editing in my personal life.
  6. HerNameIsBuffy

    SAHD are like indoor cats

    I have two indoor cats. Griffin is perfectly content to remain so and flees in fear from any open external door. Sham-Wow*, on the other hand, casually stalks the back door when we let the dogs in and out awaiting an opportunity to pop out into the real world and have an adventure. After thwarting him again today I did what I often do and picked him up for a cuddle and I explained to him how I keep him inside because I love him so much I couldn't bear if anything happened to him. That inside our home he is always safe...that he has yummy noms, cozy places to sleep, wonderful toys with which to play, protection from the elements, and a family who loves him more than he will ever know. I told him how I worry about all the kitties who don't have such protections and have to worry about the dangers of the outside world. Dangers like cars, other animals who aren't as loving as his fuzzy siblings, evil humans, environmental hazards. I explained how lucky he is to be safe at home. Apologies to the Arndts for using their phrase unintentionally and without irony. As I was going over this for the 900th time, in my attempt to brainwash him, I realized there is very little difference between my cats and the SAHD of many of the families here. Except my cats have it a little easier as having been neutered their romantic urges are curtailed (without their consent.) Also my cats have never had to eat a meatless burrito or clean a ceiling fan. *His given name is Seamus...we're a nick-namey family.
  7. GenerationCedarchip

    Tales From the Fainting Couch

    I don't know if it's just me, but lately it seems like my church circles and my social media have been flooded with young (mostly) women who all have serious but vaguely described ailments. "Lyme syndrome" seems to be a popular one as well as various gastro complaints that are mostly self-diagnosed. Has anyone else noticed this? It's almost like the invalids of the Victorian age. This time around no one is falling into a swoon, but everyone is in need of oils or a special diet, and normal levels of activity are just out of the question. It just makes me sad. I can't help wondering if some of it is psychosomatic, or if there is something (poor diet maybe?) causing so many people to have these problems.
  8. From what I've read so far, Adrienne likes to talk about the similarities between herself and movie characters (so far, I've read the posts on Sense and Sensibility, Old Fashioned, The Holiday with Kate Winslet and another one). But her blog archives go back to 2006, so maybe there's some more interesting stuff there https://adrienneand.blogspot.de/
  9. I sometimes check in on Samantha, the blogger who writes Virtuous Daughters. A quick summary: She is older than 30, no marriage and no children. She is probably like this because her parents have a 170-point questionnaire to give to all potential suitors. She is a Fake Jew. She celebrates Jewish holidays using the Gregorian calendar (Passover in January, Sukkot in July, etc.) http://www.virtuousdaughters.com/ She is now in Israel, volunteering at an assisted living facility run by Messianics. http://onegirlsjourney.virtuousdaughters.com/ On the one hand, I had been feeling very sorry for her. She was assisting a midwife in the US, and had written some very emotional posts that revealed how depressed she is at not being married or having children at this point in her life. This trip has given her something to be excited about and given her goals to work towards. On the other hand, the thought of her and other Fake Jews preying on elderly Holocaust survivors makes me stabby. She thinks that them finding "Yeshua" makes their suffering all better. I think that it is finishing up Hitler's work and trivializing everything they suffered for. On the other other hand, I am tickled by the idea of her being totally confused over holidays being celebrated all over the country, you know, on the days they are supposed to be celebrated.
  10. This is just a post from a magazine for stay at home daughters. http://shiningstarsmagazine.com/to-think-or-not-to-think-handling-romantic-attraction/#more-10506 Basically, you should think about boys as little as possible. I think she's even saying that if you have a crush you should tell your father and get his permission. Don't talk to your friends about your crush. Be careful about prayer If your crush is someone that you have to see Oh, fundies. With rules like these it's no wonder so many fundie families are having a hard time getting their kids married.
  11. Marian the Librarian

    Kelly Reins, SAHD *and* TV critic!

    And we thought those aging SAHDs just sat around the house all day, sipping tea and knitting. Not so! From Kelly's public FB page (SOTDRT spelling errors left intact): Comment from Lori Alexander: Response from Kelly: And, finally: Mercy, mercy, mercy! Self-righteous complaining! Indiscreet conversation! Unnecessary crassness! Underwear shorts!!! What, I ask you, is this world coming to? I'm shocked - SHOCKED - that a 39 year-old stay-at-home-daughter would be allowed to watch such filth.
  12. GenerationCedarchip

    I Thought the SAHD Movement was Faltering but Maybe Not

    I've personally noticed fewer and fewer women taking the traditional SAHD path and I'd wondered if the movement was fading. I guess there's still an audience for it, though. I noticed this conference posted on one of my cousin's FB pages: kbrconference.com/overview/ It looks like a SAHD encouragement event similar to those VF used to host. Of the speakers, I only recognize Wissman and a few others.
  13. daisyjane1234

    Maxwell Corner: Stay at home adult daughters

    Steve and Terri have posted their Jan '14 Mom's/Dad's Corner on the topic of stay at home adult daughters. No surprises in this post where they respond, or should I say Steve responds, to a question on the subject posed by a reader. Steve (and Terri's?) responses state the following: 1) Their adult daughters stay at home and refrain from working outside the home by choice. They do not address the issue of how they might respond should one of their daughters wish to pursue employment or education outside the home. Their daughters desire the protection and safety of home and will remain there until marriage. This means that they will likely remain at home until they die since Steve and Terri have apparently made provisions that the house remains for their use upon their death. 2) Should they pass away their daughters have sufficient marketable skills to support themselves. (Ummm. Sure). 3) When Steve and Terri became parents they chose to have Terri remain at home. They then decided they "desired" this for their grandchildren as well. 4) Their daughters are not isolated, but rather have ample opportunity to engage in relationships and activities outside the home. I think #3 is the one that most bothers me. The idea that they made choices for their own family is fine. Dysfunctional. Borderline abusive. Controlling as hell. But fine. The idea that they made choices on behalf of their future daughters-in-law annoys the crap out of me. I know. I know. Steve would only have allowed his sons to meet and marry women who would totally agree to such a proposal. But I always thought their sons had some degree of autonomy once they left they left the home. Perhaps not as much as we think? The other part that annoys me is the fact that despite Steve asserting that his daughters are not-isolated/sheltered/controlled their voice is never allowed to weigh in on the topic of their own life. These daughters are adult in age only.
  14. Just saw this article on Raising Homemakers. Looks like at least some folks finally made the connection that keeping SAHDs totally isolated leads to unmarried daughters. Apparently folks need to be more social(granted they're talking church socials and christian conferences, but that's still more than some of these families do)! Wonder if families like the Maxwells or the Duggars will ever let the daughters meet guys. raisinghomemakers.com/2013/re-thinking-waiting-on-the-lord-for-husbands-for-our-daughters/
  15. I get that lazy parents want their older daughters to take care of their younger children. But if you believe that you should have a quiver full of arrows to engage in culture war with the rest of the population, wouldn't you want not only as many children as possible, but as many grandchildren as possible too? Seems that you wouldn't want your daughters spending their most fertile years unmarried.
  16. Pinterest is a SAHDs dream!!! And our favorite fundie girls are going nuts on there. It's actually pretty eye-opening as to what's going on in the mind of a fundie girl. Jasmine Baucham's page makes me sad. She has a whole huge life in her glorious mind and she's wasting it away in her parents house. The girl has over 3200 pins!!!!! And the board of pins w/ the type of clothes she likes for a guy (although it basically morphs into the type of guy she likes whether she realizes it or not) is REALLY interesting. I so wish I could scoop her up and drop her in the middle of NYC. Something tells me she'd never go back to TX. Anyway, if you haven't checked out some of our favorite fundies' Pinterest pages... it's worth a look-see. **edited because I can't spell!
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