Little Rock, Ak says teachers must wear underwear and bras!!

[louisa05]

I have some comfortable slacks that I wear to work. I actually have more freedom of movement when I wear them then when I wear jeans.

I taught for 16 years all in private schools where the students were only allowed to wear jeans on certain occasions. I rarely wore jeans to teach in. But, that said, I also did not wear business suits, anything that was dry clean only, button down blouses that need ironed, pumps or high heels other than wedges, and any number of other clothing items typically considered business attire. And as a sub, I am probably even more casual because I have no idea what I'm walking into. I'm not going to wear fancy shoes when I may be ending my day as a crossing guard on the highway.

Some of the criticisms I have heard of teachers' attire over the years is not taking into account any practicality for the job or environment teachers work in--a relative of mine went off on how her child's teachers all wear things like jersey knit skirts and sleeveless tops in the early fall and how that would not be allowed in her office and if they want paid like professionals they should dress like professionals...and stopped the rant for only a moment when I pointed out that her child's school is not air conditioned.

[bluelady]

I'm a teacher and I read through the article and the dress code and I have to say that I'm not offended by the dress code itself, but that politicians feel it needs to be legislated. Dress codes exist in many adult work environments but no one is legislating that doctors wear underwear or secretaries can't promote their favourite beer on their shirt. That, I assume, is dealt with by that person's immediate supervisor, as it should be done in the school system. Now, most of my attire would pass the test, although I do have a number of "see-through" shirts that I wear, always with a shell or tank underneath and typically with a sweater or jacket on top. Would that pass?

It's part and parcel with the whole idea that teachers need to be held to a higher standard, and often times it angers me. I'm a member of an online teacher community and more than once a discussion has been had where a teacher will mention that they won't having a glass of wine or a beer when dining out with their family for fear that a student and/or parent will see them and cause problems. My SO (also a teacher) and I aren't married and have no plans to marry in the near future, although we are discussing starting a family sooner rather than later. It makes me wonder if I'll get any backlash from the community (I live in a small town) about being an unwed mother.

[louisa05]

I'm a teacher and I read through the article and the dress code and I have to say that I'm not offended by the dress code itself, but that politicians feel it needs to be legislated. Dress codes exist in many adult work environments but no one is legislating that doctors wear underwear or secretaries can't promote their favourite beer on their shirt. That, I assume, is dealt with by that person's immediate supervisor, as it should be done in the school system. Now, most of my attire would pass the test, although I do have a number of "see-through" shirts that I wear, always with a shell or tank underneath and typically with a sweater or jacket on top. Would that pass?

It's part and parcel with the whole idea that teachers need to be held to a higher standard, and often times it angers me. I'm a member of an online teacher community and more than once a discussion has been had where a teacher will mention that they won't having a glass of wine or a beer when dining out with their family for fear that a student and/or parent will see them and cause problems. My SO (also a teacher) and I aren't married and have no plans to marry in the near future, although we are discussing starting a family sooner rather than later. It makes me wonder if I'll get any backlash from the community (I live in a small town) about being an unwed mother.

It is that idea of teaching as a noble calling rather than a job. It is all part and parcel of the martyrdom complex. The one that makes people accept the low salaries and ridiculous demands. The one that makes it okay for principals to preach in staff meetings about how the great teachers on the staff are the ones who arrive at 6 a.m. and leave at 7 p.m. and for teachers to make it a fricking competition to see who can sleep the least and come to work the sickest. A young man I taught teaches fifth grade and he and his colleagues practically have contests on weekends about who spends the most time in the building and compare hours on Facebook.

And, on topic, I didn't wear anything as a full time teacher and don't wear anything as a sub that would not meet that dress code. But you are exactly right--it should not be legislated. And I really want to know how admins plan to confirm that everyone is wearing underwear. Seems like a sexual harassment suit would quickly follow any attempt to do so.

I do have to wonder if young teachers without common sense influenced this. We had a first year teacher turn up to open house night once in a dress more suitable for a club--strapless, spandex and very short. I had a student teacher show up in a strapless dress one day and was upset that an admin told her to keep her sweater on all day. She got quite warm by 3 p.m. And we had a young male student teacher show up in jeans hanging down so far his underwear was fully visible one time.

[tropaka]

I suspect that this is an over-reaction to the practices of some teachers; I've seen teachers with tanks with coloured bra straps on display (and when did yoga pants and flip flops become part of "business casual" - and I don't just mean teachers)? To legislate this is unnecessary, though; like someone upthread said, it's common sense to wear appropriate clothing and teachers are adults. This reads exactly like the dress code handed out to high school students. If a teacher's wearing something inappropriate it should be dealt with in school by the supervisors/principal.

[DarkAnts]

I taught for 16 years all in private schools where the students were only allowed to wear jeans on certain occasions. I rarely wore jeans to teach in. But, that said, I also did not wear business suits, anything that was dry clean only, button down blouses that need ironed, pumps or high heels other than wedges, and any number of other clothing items typically considered business attire. And as a sub, I am probably even more casual because I have no idea what I'm walking into. I'm not going to wear fancy shoes when I may be ending my day as a crossing guard on the highway.

Some of the criticisms I have heard of teachers' attire over the years is not taking into account any practicality for the job or environment teachers work in--a relative of mine went off on how her child's teachers all wear things like jersey knit skirts and sleeveless tops in the early fall and how that would not be allowed in her office and if they want paid like professionals they should dress like professionals...and stopped the rant for only a moment when I pointed out that her child's school is not air conditioned.

Business casual dose not require a suit or anything that is dry clean only. For me, its a nice blouse and a pair of slacks. I could wear skits or dresses if I wanted to. For men, it can be slacks and a polo shirt.

[bluelady]

It is that idea of teaching as a noble calling rather than a job. It is all part and parcel of the martyrdom complex. The one that makes people accept the low salaries and ridiculous demands. The one that makes it okay for principals to preach in staff meetings about how the great teachers on the staff are the ones who arrive at 6 a.m. and leave at 7 p.m. and for teachers to make it a fricking competition to see who can sleep the least and come to work the sickest. A young man I taught teaches fifth grade and he and his colleagues practically have contests on weekends about who spends the most time in the building and compare hours on Facebook.

And, on topic, I didn't wear anything as a full time teacher and don't wear anything as a sub that would not meet that dress code. But you are exactly right--it should not be legislated. And I really want to know how admins plan to confirm that everyone is wearing underwear. Seems like a sexual harassment suit would quickly follow any attempt to do so.

I do have to wonder if young teachers without common sense influenced this. We had a first year teacher turn up to open house night once in a dress more suitable for a club--strapless, spandex and very short. I had a student teacher show up in a strapless dress one day and was upset that an admin told her to keep her sweater on all day. She got quite warm by 3 p.m. And we had a young male student teacher show up in jeans hanging down so far his underwear was fully visible one time.

Funny you should say that. I just got back from three hours at my school, getting things ready. But, that's because I slacked off last week and didn't do my work then. And, I agree with you. The martyrdom complex is strong among teachers. I haven't personally seen it so much here, in Canada, but I have on certain online communities. My principal would DIE if she thought I was at school for more than a couple of hours on the weekend and would probably be getting me a mentor to help me streamline my planning.

A couple of years ago, during Winter Carnival, we had theme days where everyone, including teachers, would dress up according to that theme. Well, one of them was Beach Day. Most of us showed up in knee-length board shorts, flip flops, sunglasses, some had snorkels or flippers on, that kind of thing. Then, in walked in a newer teacher in a bathing suit and sarong-type beach cover-up. I guess she didn't realize that it was inappropriate, although I don't see how.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I'm a teacher and I read through the article and the dress code and I have to say that I'm not offended by the dress code itself, but that politicians feel it needs to be legislated. Dress codes exist in many adult work environments but no one is legislating that doctors wear underwear or secretaries can't promote their favourite beer on their shirt. That, I assume, is dealt with by that person's immediate supervisor, as it should be done in the school system. Now, most of my attire would pass the test, although I do have a number of "see-through" shirts that I wear, always with a shell or tank underneath and typically with a sweater or jacket on top. Would that pass?

It's part and parcel with the whole idea that teachers need to be held to a higher standard, and often times it angers me. I'm a member of an online teacher community and more than once a discussion has been had where a teacher will mention that they won't having a glass of wine or a beer when dining out with their family for fear that a student and/or parent will see them and cause problems. My SO (also a teacher) and I aren't married and have no plans to marry in the near future, although we are discussing starting a family sooner rather than later. It makes me wonder if I'll get any backlash from the community (I live in a small town) about being an unwed mother.

I think it's awful that teachers are burdened with worrying over such a thing. Years ago, my husband and I took our son to a local arcade. We ran into a teacher there who worked at his school, a very nice man who is well-respected by both parents and teachers alike. He was with his wife, and he introduced her to us. When she moved to shake my hand, she looked guilty and made a sort of movement like she wanted to hide the bottle of beer she was drinking. I felt sad that she even felt like she had to do that. They had left their kids with a sitter and came in for a quiet game of pool. If they want to have a date night and enjoy a quiet drink, then where's the harm? It's their business, not anyone else's.

In a related story, a good friend of mine ran into her daughter's teacher on the way out of a restaurant. The teacher was sitting at the bar by herself having a drink. She actually apologized to my friend for being caught with a drink, explaining that she just got through a very hard week. My friend just laughed and told her not to worry and that she understood, everyone has the right to kick back and relax.

It doesn't help that there is often a lot of rumor-mongering among school workers and volunteers. There are parents who, if they had met either of these teachers under the same circumstances, would have been circulating rumors of "so-and-so is an alcoholic" within days.

[MamaJunebug]

Has anybody observed that somewhere in Little Rock, a quietly transvestite male teacher is whooping and hollering in joyous relief? If he collapses at work and they have to cut his clothes off him, there will be no tch-tch'ing to find his bra and matching lacy panties! Hoorah! Prayers of one have been answered!!!!! [/ironically maximally] ;)

[stacyf]

I too wonder how you determine if someone is wearing proper under garments unless you strip every morning.

I was also wondering if someone could change the title of this thread from AK to AR. As an Alaskan it is just one of those things that bugs.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

I don't know guys....I've seen some people out and about who were clearly oblivious to the fact that from behind THEIR behind was more on display than I needed to see. And some busty woman swaying side to side. I hate that fact that this is even written down as law but I wouldn't be surprised if there actually were some instances where people were just ignorant about the way things looked to others.

Are you kidding me?

As an H cup, I've been subjected to numerous (and almost universally female) criticisms that my attire is "unprofessional" whilst the lecturer surreptitiously and meaningfully eyes my breasts. The fact is, boobs move, and large ones move more. I'm not going to live in Spanx or a girdle because someone ELSE is uncomfortable with the female body. And FYI, last time I checked a high-necked, non-cleavage-bearing tank top under a loose button down shirt is NOT exactly something common in porno movies. It pisses me off when women don't support (no pun intended) other women for having the accoutrements of being biologically female. How can we expect men to treat us as equals in the workplace when we're busy making catty comments about other women's clothing?? I've certainly had inappropriate things said by men, but the nastiest, most spiteful comments tend to come from women!

IF someone's attire is truly inappropriate, then a simple, private comment is enough.

[javafriend]

I couldn't resist sharing this story: My sister, a third grade teacher, went out with some friends for a drink after work on a Friday. After a little drinking and a lot of laughing with friends, she headed home. It was an icy winter evening and she slipped and fell, landing in the gutter in front of the bar. As she struggled to get up, she heard a familiar voice ask, "Are you okay?". Yes, it was the parent of one of her students who also happened to be a school board member. Best part - when she got home, she discovered that, in the poorly lit bar, she had accidently put her coat on inside out. As far as my sister knew, nothing was ever said but I still laugh whenever I think about it.

Now back to the topic.

[Sobeknofret]

Psht. I teach in my jammies with no bra most days. Of course, my student usually comes to class in his jammies too, and usually ditches his shirt somewhere between breakfast and lunch (I do make him wear his shirt when he eats).

[bananacat]

Are you kidding me?

As an H cup, I've been subjected to numerous (and almost universally female) criticisms that my attire is "unprofessional" whilst the lecturer surreptitiously and meaningfully eyes my breasts. The fact is, boobs move, and large ones move more. I'm not going to live in Spanx or a girdle because someone ELSE is uncomfortable with the female body. And FYI, last time I checked a high-necked, non-cleavage-bearing tank top under a loose button down shirt is NOT exactly something common in porno movies. It pisses me off when women don't support (no pun intended) other women for having the accoutrements of being biologically female. How can we expect men to treat us as equals in the workplace when we're busy making catty comments about other women's clothing?? I've certainly had inappropriate things said by men, but the nastiest, most spiteful comments tend to come from women!

IF someone's attire is truly inappropriate, then a simple, private comment is enough.

Thanks for saying this. I also have an H cup and I was about to go on a rant but then I deleted before posting. I always wear a bra in public, but they still jiggle and for many years it was complete torture, and not for the reason most people think. Bra options are so incredibly limited. It's not as easy as walking into a department store or Victoria's Secret. Most places carry only up to DD, an Nordstrom up to DDD. That doesn't do me any good. After endless frustration of trying to deal with mail-order and not being able to try stuff on, and going to specialty shops that only carried uncomfortable fabrics and shapes in my size, I have finally managed to find exactly two styles of a bra from one brand that are comfortable enough to wear all day without itching from the fabric or making my two breasts brush against each other in a weird way or making them some weird shape, and I get to pay $160 for each of them. I wish it was socially acceptable for me to go in public without a bra. Even if I had to wear one for work still, it would be great if I could just run to the grocery store without a bra and without someone being horrified that my lumps of fat don't stay perfectly still when I walk.

[Cartmann99]

Thanks for saying this. I also have an H cup and I was about to go on a rant but then I deleted before posting. I always wear a bra in public, but they still jiggle and for many years it was complete torture, and not for the reason most people think. Bra options are so incredibly limited. It's not as easy as walking into a department store or Victoria's Secret. Most places carry only up to DD, an Nordstrom up to DDD. That doesn't do me any good. After endless frustration of trying to deal with mail-order and not being able to try stuff on, and going to specialty shops that only carried uncomfortable fabrics and shapes in my size, I have finally managed to find exactly two styles of a bra from one brand that are comfortable enough to wear all day without itching from the fabric or making my two breasts brush against each other in a weird way or making them some weird shape, and I get to pay $160 for each of them. I wish it was socially acceptable for me to go in public without a bra. Even if I had to wear one for work still, it would be great if I could just run to the grocery store without a bra and without someone being horrified that my lumps of fat don't stay perfectly still when I walk.

All of well-endowed women should order a large bookcase from Amazon. When the bookcase arrives, carefully remove the box, cut out a hole for your head and arms and wear the box. :dance:

On a serious note, once your breasts reach a certain size, even the most conservative choices in clothing and bras cannot disguise the fact that you have large breasts. In a winter coat buttoned up to my neck, the boobs are still obvious. :shrug:

[RachelB]

I too wonder how you determine if someone is wearing proper under garments unless you strip every morning.

I was also wondering if someone could change the title of this thread from AK to AR. As an Alaskan it is just one of those things that bugs.

Especially since the code specifies both that you must wear undergarments and that they must not be visible. Catch-22, no?

The visibility test in particular pisses me off. Even a white bra is visible through a white shirt. What happens if it's hard to find bras that match your skin color?

[Ariel]

I worked in a high school and the students are more likely to point it out if you don't look appropriate.

I wore a dress that was above the knee with leggings. I knew it was on the shorter side, but I thought it was long enough to be professional-no adult said anything.

Lo and behold 4th period (my rowdy one) comes around..."Woahhhh Ms. Ariel! That dress is short." :embarrassed: And I never wore it to school again.

As long as men who have enough chest fat to warrant a cup size wear a bra, I have no problems with this requirement. :lol:

[NoneandDoneinCali]

Thanks for saying this. I also have an H cup and I was about to go on a rant but then I deleted before posting. I always wear a bra in public, but they still jiggle and for many years it was complete torture, and not for the reason most people think. Bra options are so incredibly limited. It's not as easy as walking into a department store or Victoria's Secret. Most places carry only up to DD, an Nordstrom up to DDD. That doesn't do me any good. After endless frustration of trying to deal with mail-order and not being able to try stuff on, and going to specialty shops that only carried uncomfortable fabrics and shapes in my size, I have finally managed to find exactly two styles of a bra from one brand that are comfortable enough to wear all day without itching from the fabric or making my two breasts brush against each other in a weird way or making them some weird shape, and I get to pay $160 for each of them. I wish it was socially acceptable for me to go in public without a bra. Even if I had to wear one for work still, it would be great if I could just run to the grocery store without a bra and without someone being horrified that my lumps of fat don't stay perfectly still when I walk.

Banana Cat - I don't know where you're located, but check out Lane Bryant. They carry bras from "Cacique" and I've found there are 3 styles I can wear. I'm a 38 H and the bras are pretty (believe it or not, you can get lace!! and they are not see-through) and run about $60 a pop, plus they have buy 2 get one free sales 4 times a year. You can buy online. Until I discovered this, I was forced to buy push-up bras (wtf ... in an H cup???) from Frederick's for $90. Granted, the colors are limited, but I was so friggin' happy to have something that actually makes me feel pretty (and covered). I've never looked back! :D

Oh, and don't you LOVE when someone tells you to "cover up" or similar. Then you attempt to wear a sweater or something and it clings to the boob area? Yeah, damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'm a therapist (well, intern), and my clients pay waaaaay less attention to my chest in a cardigan and (conservatively) V-neck T than the friggin' inadvertently clingy turtlenecks I bought to appease my supervisor :roll:

[julie paradox]

I worked in a high school and the students are more likely to point it out if you don't look appropriate.

I wore a dress that was above the knee with leggings. I knew it was on the shorter side, but I thought it was long enough to be professional-no adult said anything.

Lo and behold 4th period (my rowdy one) comes around..."Woahhhh Ms. Ariel! That dress is short." :embarrassed: And I never wore it to school again.

Next time, tell them: it's not a dress - it's a tunic. That's what the leggings are for.

[Kitty Luna]

It's not just teachers that need this pointed out to. In nursing school BSN candidates always wore scrubs with "student nurse" embroidered on it, but MSN students were allowed to wear professional clothing with a lab coat or scrubs for certain clinicals. When I was doing clinicals for my MSN the dean sent out a advisory email as to what was appropriate attire for students. We had students dressing like it was a night on the town to see patients. It should be obvious that when you are going to be possibly leaning in and over patients, you would 1. wear a bra if your chest is large enough to get in the way or 2. wear a shirt that isn't low cut or see through. We also had some ladies wearing skirts that were a bit too tight or too short to be considered "professional" attire. On the other end we had a girl who thought yoga pants and a t-shirt were professional as long as she had her lab coat over it. I was told a similar email went out to the medical school as well. A number of faculty had complained about the attire.

[darareaksmey]

I don't know guys....I've seen some people out and about who were clearly oblivious to the fact that from behind THEIR behind was more on display than I needed to see. And some busty woman swaying side to side. I hate that fact that this is even written down as law but I wouldn't be surprised if there actually were some instances where people were just ignorant about the way things looked to others.

Truth. Without being specific about where I work, let's just say that wearing undergarments to work is NOT a matter of common sense for some people, and they need to be told. I have one coworker who badly needs a bra and doesn't wear one. Our dress code mandates "appropriate undergarments" but our boss does not go there with anyone.

[Coconut Flan]

Nordstrom here has DDDD and beyond. Perhaps it varies by store. They do hide the larger cup sizes in the back and you have to ask for them.

[Chowder Head]

An old princapal once said..when you raise you hand and feel a draft your shirt is to short.

[bananacat]

The other factor in my bra search is that I have a relatively small band size. My bra size is 34I, and it's really hard to find a band size that small with a cup size so large. I'm not skinny by any stretch and probably pushing obese; it's just the way my weight is distributed and I have a small rib cage. I tried the Cacique bras a few years ago and IIRC they only offered 38 and above. The "sister sizes" thing might work for a smaller bust, but it doesn't work at all for some this large. The Nordstrom I went to was at the King of Prussia mall and I did ask for the bigger sizes, and they still only had up to DDD.

[Nothing2CHere]

Bra options are so incredibly limited. It's not as easy as walking into a department store or Victoria's Secret. Most places carry only up to DD, an Nordstrom up to DDD.

I have discovered Victoria's Secret. If you have smaller breasts, she's great at making them look bigger. But if you already have big breasts, she has no way to help you out.

[Coconut Flan]

Sorry Bananacat, in Cali Nordstrom goes to something like a 32J. I wear a 32 band size and a very large cup size and they have always had something "in the back." Did they offer you the possibility of ordering?

Here and they aren't really more expensive than Nordstrom, we have specialty bra shops and they do alterations. My daughters have gone to a place called Wizard of Bras for strapless bras that really fit and stay in place. For regular bras, they do fine at Nordstrom.