Feeling Sorry For the Famous Fundies?

[luckylassie]

I admit, I feel a bit sorry for Anna D. and others that are fundy wives. I don't know how much she gets to go on the web but I would imagine she is probably pretty aware of people who think her husband is a smug little boob. I think she herself has been described as "dim", "doe in the headlights", and "brood mare". I don't feel much sympathy for the men but I'm not totally heartless.

[finleeport]

I feel sorry for fundies like Ray Comfort, Kirk Cameron and Becky Fischer. To me they are like the Pharisees, well not exactly but what do they have by asking people have they ever lied or lusted or steal? They might claim they love mankind and want to save him from death, but that 'love' as they call it, sounds limited and self-serving.

Its fundies like them that I would call their religion Bibliolatry; they do not worship God they worship his book, his bible, their so into the Letter of the Law and not the Spirit of the Law.

[fundiefan]

She knew what she was getting and doing though. It's not like the Duggar 'fame' came after the marriage. Her relationship kind of came at its peak, actually. She knew who they were and how they live their lives. She knew they are 'public personalities' and that would mean she would be too.

Not to say I am totally heartless. Just in that case, I don't have any reason to believe she is a victim of circumstances she was unaware of.

The ones I feel sorry for are the SAHD's who are raised in the crazy and know nothing else and have no choices or options. They can't even make the decision to pick or stay away from someone who is 'famous' or known or picked apart by others. My pity is almost even more for the fundie royalty girls - Botkins, Sarah M., Browns, Phillips. They are part of the money making machines of their families so they are even more screwed and even less likely to get married and find a life of their own.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I feel pity for all fundies born in the movement, because it's not like they had a choice, and when you've never known anything else, it's hard to get out. I feel a lot less sorry for the ones who chose this as adults. However the absolute hatred that a lot of them spew is enough to cancel that out for me, for the most part.

[luckylassie]

I know what you mean. Anna did know the Duggars had fame before she began "courting" Josh. I feel more sorry for the kids that are trapped in the lifestyle and have to sleep in either extremely hot or extremely cold temps. Children need attention but in these kind of families the mothers are too busy making blessings to give them any. I also lose sympathy when the fundies start acting holier than thou.

[PBrooke]

She knew what she was getting and doing though. It's not like the Duggar 'fame' came after the marriage. Her relationship kind of came at its peak, actually. She knew who they were and how they live their lives. She knew they are 'public personalities' and that would mean she would be too.

Not to say I am totally heartless. Just in that case, I don't have any reason to believe she is a victim of circumstances she was unaware of.

The ones I feel sorry for are the SAHD's who are raised in the crazy and know nothing else and have no choices or options. They can't even make the decision to pick or stay away from someone who is 'famous' or known or picked apart by others. My pity is almost even more for the fundie royalty girls - Botkins, Sarah M., Browns, Phillips. They are part of the money making machines of their families so they are even more screwed and even less likely to get married and find a life of their own.

Okay, so you don't feel sorry for Anna, for being married to a famous person... but then you DO feel sorry for her for having been born into this movement, not truly had much of a choice in deciding who she would marry (after all, Daddy approved), and being a part of a money-making machine family, right?

I also disagree, to a certain extent, that Anna knew what she was in for. When she got together with Josh they'd only had TV specials, not the show, and the average person (ie me) had never heard of them past the clown car picture. And while Michelle had had kids live on TV, the children themselves were held at arm's length (in the specials). She might have thought she'd be a person in the background, a footnote.

[bananacat]

I feel sorry for Anna because no matter how much she knew about the Duggar fame, she had no choice but to do it anyway. Courtships are essentially forced marriages. Women technically have veto power at the very end, but if all these men already made the decision that this is what's best for her, who is she to disagree? She wouldn't be properly submissive to her father if she second-guessed his choice of husband for her.

And even in the very off chance that she would have been allowed to decline the proposal without her father getting mad or using some emotional manipulation, she still would have probably said yes to any guy that came along. Since she can't initiate any kind of relationship, she has to wait for men to come to her. If she turned down the first proposal she has absolutely no idea when or if another guy will come along.

[haveapicniclife]

Oh I think she's very aware of what people say. It's given her that defensive attitude with the eye rolling. I think that's where her "I drive a Hummer but I cloth diaper" snark came from.

[Helvetica]

[Hi all, this is my first post!]

The question that I have about Anna is- why did she give birth on camera? In the episode during her first pregnancy where they go to the Bradley class, she is clearly embarrassed and says that she has been doing the exercises behind closed doors. But then she is okay with having the birth filmed? I was completely shocked- here is a couple that does not kiss before marriage, and yet they are comfortable giving a camera crew and a TV audience access to seeing what lots of people consider to be one of the most private moments of a woman/couple's life.

Also, the way the first birth went down was just so weird- they were going to have the baby in a hospital, but the doctor was out of town, so they asked the doula to assist at a homebirth? I am assuming their doula must have been a licensed midwife, because otherwise that seems incredibly risky and stupid. I also believe that they were probably planning a homebirth all along, but didn't want to risk criticism for it, so pretended that it was a last-minute decision.

I'm sure that you've probably had this discussion before- if so, if someone could link me to it, I'd be grateful. These are questions that I've been wondering about for a while, so I would appreciate any insight!

[xReems]

[Hi all, this is my first post!]

The question that I have about Anna is- why did she give birth on camera? In the episode during her first pregnancy where they go to the Bradley class, she is clearly embarrassed and says that she has been doing the exercises behind closed doors. But then she is okay with having the birth filmed? I was completely shocked- here is a couple that does not kiss before marriage, and yet they are comfortable giving a camera crew and a TV audience access to seeing what lots of people consider to be one of the most private moments of a woman/couple's life.

Also, the way the first birth went down was just so weird- they were going to have the baby in a hospital, but the doctor was out of town, so they asked the doula to assist at a homebirth? I am assuming their doula must have been a licensed midwife, because otherwise that seems incredibly risky and stupid. I also believe that they were probably planning a homebirth all along, but didn't want to risk criticism for it, so pretended that it was a last-minute decision.

I'm sure that you've probably had this discussion before- if so, if someone could link me to it, I'd be grateful. These are questions that I've been wondering about for a while, so I would appreciate any insight!

To answer your question, the answer is very simple-Increased viewers and fame. The Duggars think that by showing a birth on television, it'll somehow increase viewers thus increasing their fame even more to "spread the word of Christ." This is why whenever there is a pregnancy news, a new birth, courtship, engagement, marriage, etc, they appear on GMA as if everyone in this country are going to tune in to hear what these people have to say.

As for the homebirth, I think I read somewhere that the woman who assisted isn't a licensed doula or a midwife. Even though Jill was there for Michael's birth, I don't think she's officially a midwife yet, maybe a midwife in training at the moment. The whole show is staged to begin with, it wouldn't surprise me if they planned a homebirth all along but just for the sake of their show, they threw in a "last minute change."

I have no sympathy for Anna whatsoever. I think just like the Duggars, she too has become a famewhore, wanting attention for everything. She knew what she was going to get herself into, especially when they filmed her getting engaged. It would not surprise me if they have a spin off, solely focusing on Josh and Anna's marriage and family life. Although Josh has his car lot, they are living comfortably thanks to "19 kids and counting" but once the show is canceled, the lovely income stops, so to keep it going, they'll probably continue with their own show.

[emmiedahl]

I think they absolutely planned a homebirth. No one goes, 'Oh, I really wanted a hospital birth, but my doctor is out of town so nevermind.'

[fundiefan]

Okay, so you don't feel sorry for Anna, for being married to a famous person... but then you DO feel sorry for her for having been born into this movement, not truly had much of a choice in deciding who she would marry (after all, Daddy approved), and being a part of a money-making machine family, right?

I also disagree, to a certain extent, that Anna knew what she was in for. When she got together with Josh they'd only had TV specials, not the show, and the average person (ie me) had never heard of them past the clown car picture. And while Michelle had had kids live on TV, the children themselves were held at arm's length (in the specials). She might have thought she'd be a person in the background, a footnote.

Anna's dad approved - that's not daddy deciding. Her family also isn't a conglomerate money making machine; they are one family in a small area. Her dad ministers in prisons. That's not selling his daughter's life as a product. They were not making money off her stay at home daughter-hood. And, given the disucsisons here about the different choices of several of the kids in that family, they did have choices. Some are far less fundie in their own lives; some left it altogether. They were not so indoctrinated that they didn't even conceive of making their own choices. Their choices for their own lives will not affect the 'family business'.

I did say that most of my pity was for the kids in the so-called fundie royalty. Not all fundies are in that category.

I have no qualms about seeing a whole lot of gray areas in fundie land and thinking one way about some and another about others.

[Jessica]

[Hi all, this is my first post!]Also, the way the first birth went down was just so weird- they were going to have the baby in a hospital, but the doctor was out of town, so they asked the doula to assist at a homebirth? I am assuming their doula must have been a licensed midwife, because otherwise that seems incredibly risky and stupid. I also believe that they were probably planning a homebirth all along, but didn't want to risk criticism for it, so pretended that it was a last-minute decision.

Yeah, she decided last-minute that she wanted a homebirth because her OB was out of town and she "didn't feel comfortable" with other doctors and yet when they were traveling across the country 2 weeks before her due date with Michael they were planning the route of the trip so they'd be near hospitals all the way, where she'd be with doctors she'd never even met... yeah... whatever!

[tabitha2]

She is living every good ATI/VF raised girls dream life-married young to a model ATI guy,had two kids-quickly,doesn't have to worry about work or money and is free to be an 'example' to other young women of the 'correct' way of living.Since she apparently never wanted any thing else,I don't get the pity people want to give her.

[fundiefan]

She is living every good ATI/VF raised girls dream life-married young to a model ATI guy,had two kids-quickly,doesn't have to worry about work or money and is free to be an 'example' to other young women of the 'correct' way of living.Since she apparently never wanted any thing else,I don't get the pity people want to give her.

That's very true and a way of looking at it that I hadn't even considered.

Not everyone gets to live out their life plan. Not everyone's dreams come true. Not everyone gets to do what they've always wanted, believed they were meant to do, or were capable of.

There are people who live their whole lives trying to reach goals and make their dreams come true - some dreams, any dreams, never mind all dreams. Anna? She got everything she wanted, dreamed of, and believed she was meant to do.

Not exactly something to pity.

[bananacat]

She is living every good ATI/VF raised girls dream life-married young to a model ATI guy,had two kids-quickly,doesn't have to worry about work or money and is free to be an 'example' to other young women of the 'correct' way of living.Since she apparently never wanted any thing else,I don't get the pity people want to give her.

She doesn't have to worry about money? What are you smoking? Smuggar is not a good provider and some day the TLC gravy train will come to and end and Daddy Duggar will stop helping his son. By then she'll have 10 kids at the rate she's going, and if they don't have enough money, she will be completely powerless to do anything about it. She could very easily watch her kids go hungry and wouldn't even be able to get a job to help them.

[cjsmom]

She doesn't have to worry about money? What are you smoking? Smuggar is not a good provider and some day the TLC gravy train will come to and end and Daddy Duggar will stop helping his son. By then she'll have 10 kids at the rate she's going, and if they don't have enough money, she will be completely powerless to do anything about it. She could very easily watch her kids go hungry and wouldn't even be able to get a job to help them.

That's the point at which she phones TLC, and has them filming her grabbing all the kids and starting fresh without Smuggar. They'd pay huge for that emotional train wreck!

[Cassandra]

I feel sorry for fundies like Ray Comfort, Kirk Cameron and Becky Fischer. To me they are like the Pharisees, well not exactly but what do they have by asking people have they ever lied or lusted or steal? They might claim they love mankind and want to save him from death, but that 'love' as they call it, sounds limited and self-serving.

Yeah, I have no pity for Kirk Cameron. Maybe in real life he's actually a nice person, but based on statements he's made to the media concerning religion he comes off as a huge asshole.

[luckylassie]

The bit of sympathy I have is about the size of a lemon seed. I can totally see smuggar having ten kids and not Anna being totally helpless to help them should they ever go broke. She would probably either be constantly pregnant and unable to work or unable to find a decent paying job

[hoipolloi]

Yeah, I have no pity for Kirk Cameron. Maybe in real life he's actually a nice person, but based on statements he's made to the media concerning religion he comes off as a huge asshole.

This.

I don't feel sorry any of these people except the minor children who were raised with this utter crap and have no legal means of extricating themselves before age 18, and adult females who have been totally subjugated by the abuse ministries that VF, ATI, etc. peddle.

I definitely have no sympathy whatsoever for any of them who is making money off others in this racket, even the "lady bloggers" with their ubiquitous VF widgets. It's a ponzi scheme, pure and simple.

[tehgoobster]

I feel bad for the fundie royal children. They're held up as examples, and that puts a lot of pressure on their shoulders. If any of them were to decide that they didn't want to do this anymore, they'd have to deal with letting their family and their followers down. Many of them contribute to their family financially, so if they were to leave, they'd also leave with the knowledge that they'd be hurting their family's livelihood. Those who were raised in the movement have been "trained" since birth to obey their parents to the extent that they probably think their salvation hinges on their obedience and submission, so yeah, I can see how difficult it would be to walk away when you have all that hanging over your head. Some of them would probably be shunned by their family and friends, and the movement would probably cast them aside like they were nothing.

[higgledypiggledy]

In response to Anna's home birth. I tried to post this earlier but was unsuccessful and haven't figured out how to quote yet. They probably planned on a home birth all along but Arkansas is anti-midwifery. In such state a midwife could be prosecuted for felony practicing medicine without a license, CPS could charge the parents with neglect if they failed to obtain prenatal care with a licensed OB or family practitioner, the mother could be subject to random drug testing for up to a year after the birth etc... It sounds insane, but unfortunately it happens in America. From the set-up of their Douala, I'm confident she was a well trained midwife and probably the OB they worked with was an under the radar back-up for her. BUT Anna was nuts to wander around the country on a bus so close to the birth of their second kiddo.

[Buzzard]

Anna knew what she was in for. I feel bad for the homeskooled kids who have no way of escaping. They've been taught the earth is flat and daring to question that is ebil and will send them to hell. God forbid one of them is gay or has doubts about their faith. They have been denied the ability to question and the educational resources to function in the world. Its a set up for failure.

[demgirl]

I too have sympathy for the children that are raised in this mess. But I imagine as they get older, start their own families and subject THEIR children to this mess, all of my sympathy will switch to the new generation. At some point, you have to take responsibility for your own choices and that point, to me, is when you decide to subject your own children to this disaster of a lifestyle.

[tabitha2]

100% sure JB vets all those potential spouses for suitability.While towing the approved line is paramount he is will be looking for someone who can handle the Duggar media empire without embarrassing him or cracking and Anna passed the test.