Submissive wives and the Bibical Abigail

[AtroposHeart]

Despite being an atheist I have made it a goal to read the entire Bible, for a variety of reasons. However, today in first Samuel I came across the story of Abigail and David.

Now, fundies are always going on about wifely submissiveness and other bullshit, but in the story of Abigail is about a woman who DEFIES her husband and is REWARDED for it.

Now, here is the story, Abigail is married to a rich asshole and he offends David and afraid David might make war on them, she goes out and makes peace with David. The text makes it clear that she went behind her husband's back to do this. Anyway she goes back to her husband, who is drunk and waits till morning when he is somber and when he hears the story he faints. Ten days later God strikes him dead.

Then David takes Abigail as his wife and she becomes a QUEEN.

I have a question fundies if submissive is so important; when why is their a Bible story where a woman is rewarded for disobeying her husband and becomes a queen!

[oil]

My religious teaching is only the "old testament" and if I remember it, theres no rule to submission to your husband. I think it came with the "new testament" after Jesus came.

I hope a fundameltalist will correct me, I would like to know about this, too.

[Justme]

I wonder if Nath Maxwell's "Abigail" is named after her.....

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Was Abigail's husband a man of God? Doesn't sound like it? So I guess her actions were ok. However Lori and her kind always say you should submit and pray when you have an unbelieving husband right? Someone should bring that up to her next time she is babbling.

[MamaJunebug]

My religious teaching is only the "old testament" and if I remember it, theres no rule to submission to your husband. I think it came with the "new testament" after Jesus came.

I hope a fundameltalist will correct me, I would like to know about this, too.

I. Hate. This. Stupid. ASUS. Keyboard which just caused me to lose my reply. That said:

I'm no fundamentalist, but you are correct, Jesus of Nazareth had nothing to say about wives submitting to husbands.

That came after His ascension into Heaven, when the apostle Paul wrote to A congregation that he personally didn't allow women to take over worship services, and also that he wanted wives and husbands to treat each other with respect and love and to sublimate their own wishes to those of their spouse as well as those of their fellow Christians.

In the intervening millennia, many have jumped upon Paul's words to make their own cases for womanly self-degradation to "the order of creation" (meaning that because God created Adam first, men are in charge) in any number of degrees of knuckle-under-to-the-men behaviors.

I have read that there are some sects in Judaism in which women are treated in a similar fashion, or that at least it appears to be so. I have also read that there are many - possibly a strong majority - of Jews who consider male domination as anathema. I know for a fact that the beliefs in Christianity are varied and that there are many sects who ordain women and consider the worst interpretations of Paul's words to be heretical.

(Take THAT, stupid Asus keyboard! I did it!)

[polecat]

Paul was the one with a hangup about women being silent in church and obeying their husbands. The Bible has several examples of powerful or strong-willed women who are willing to stand up for what they believe: Deborah, Jael, Rahab, et al. Fundies -- like so many others -- pick and choose what they want from the Bible. If they can scrabble up a verse that says women are the weaker vessels, then it doesn't matter how many women showed the resurrected Jesus love and respect while all the dumb-shit men sobbed their eyes outs refusing to believe the women. It doesn't matter that a woman saved Israel more than once. It doesn't matter that one woman brought the tool for our redemption into the world because a different woman supposedly brought sin.

Rambling, I know, but it's long been a pet peeve of mine. The fundies are either too stupid to read, or they cherry pick to meet their own personal -- and abusive -- preferences.

[fun2beme]

Now, here is the story, Abigail is married to a rich asshole

That is hysterical. I'm a cradle Catholic and would pay a large amount of money to read your full-length interpretation of the Bible.

[Ariel]

That is hysterical. I'm a cradle Catholic and would pay a large amount of money to read your full-length interpretation of the Bible.

I bet there's money in that. Lot's of people would pay for a humorous, slightly profane, but accurate interpretation of the bible.

I would at least. :D

[anjulibai]

I wonder if Nath Maxwell's "Abigail" is named after her.....

She is actually.

blog.titus2.com/2008/05/19/abigail-hope-12/

[salsa]

I. Hate. This. Stupid. ASUS. Keyboard which just caused me to lose my reply. That said:

I'm no fundamentalist, but you are correct, Jesus of Nazareth had nothing to say about wives submitting to husbands.

That came after His ascension into Heaven, when the apostle Paul wrote to A congregation that he personally didn't allow women to take over worship services, and also that he wanted wives and husbands to treat each other with respect and love and to sublimate their own wishes to those of their spouse as well as those of their fellow Christians.

In the intervening millennia, many have jumped upon Paul's words to make their own cases for womanly self-degradation to "the order of creation" (meaning that because God created Adam first, men are in charge) in any number of degrees of knuckle-under-to-the-men behaviors.

I have read that there are some sects in Judaism in which women are treated in a similar fashion, or that at least it appears to be so. I have also read that there are many - possibly a strong majority - of Jews who consider male domination as anathema. I know for a fact that the beliefs in Christianity are varied and that there are many sects who ordain women and consider the worst interpretations of Paul's words to be heretical.

(Take THAT, stupid Asus keyboard! I did it!)

That's only true in ONE of the creation stories. The other one says they were created together.

[JesusFightClub]

I bet there's money in that. Lot's of people would pay for a humorous, slightly profane, but accurate interpretation of the bible.

I would at least. :D

I have been thinking of a blog like that because I had some religious schooling and I have told my mate and brother some Bible stories using small words. (My brother still laughs at my attempt to explain why God made a worm bite the gourd Jonah was lying under. That kind of sucked, admittedly.)

If I start one, AtroposHeart, will you write for it? That was an awesome description :lol:

edit as I suck at getting names right

[Pam]

That's only true in ONE of the creation stories. The other one says they were created together.

Ah, but that's the one that also has God making them co-rulers over every living thing on the earth, so we can safely ignore that story.

[Cran]

Religion is just a pretext for assholes to be assholes.

The "Christianity" touted by most people discussed here has precious little to do with the bible or Christian traditions, it is only a warped MRA-ish worldview with the culturally accepted religion painted on.

The bible is full of women who do not fit the cookie cutter fundamentalism invented for them (I'd say there are more of those women in the bible than those who fit), and they found a whole new religion on two quotes by Paulus which contradict, in the way they interpret them, the complete Gospel.

[AtroposHeart]

I have been thinking of a blog like that because I had some religious schooling and I have told my mate and brother some Bible stories using small words. (My brother still laughs at my attempt to explain why God made a worm bite the gourd Jonah was lying under. That kind of sucked, admittedly.)

If I start one, AtroposHeart, will you write for it? That was an awesome description :lol:

edit as I suck at getting names right

Certiantly. though I don't think I'm as funny as people say/

[MamaJunebug]

Religion is just a pretext for assholes to be assholes.

The "Christianity" touted by most people discussed here has precious little to do with the bible or Christian traditions, it is only a warped MRA-ish worldview with the culturally accepted religion painted on.

The bible is full of women who do not fit the cookie cutter fundamentalism invented for them (I'd say there are more of those women in the bible than those who fit), and they found a whole new religion on two quotes by Paulus which contradict, in the way they interpret them, the complete Gospel.

So compactly and well stated. As a Christian, I appreciate that more people are seeing the difference between the authentic religion and the faux.

[Tress]

That is hysterical. I'm a cradle Catholic and would pay a large amount of money to read your full-length interpretation of the Bible.

You must read the Lolcat bible - it is hilarious:

http://lolcatbible.com/?title=Genesis_1

[ThatSnark]

Until AtroposHeart gets her book into our waiting hands, may I recommend Ken's Guide to the Bible? He runs through everything you need to know and highlights all the juicy parts that your pastor may have not chosen to point out: http://www.amazon.com/Kens-Guide-Bible- ... 0922233179

[MamaJunebug]

She is actually.

blog.titus2.com/2008/05/19/abigail-hope-12/

Migosh, the self-loathing in that blog post! Over choosing a *name*! For a much-loved **baby**!!!!

I've been blessed to be a Christian all my life, have been taught and encouraged to seek God's will in things large and small, and I honestly don't think I beat myself up about major life decisions (to marry, to remain married) as much as Nate beat himself up over choosing a name for the child who was expected after the sad early death of her sister a few years earlier!!!

SMH. No wonder some people think Christians are nut-baskets. How I wish the Maxwells, all of them, would just silently slip back into obscurity.

[salex]

Until AtroposHeart gets her book into our waiting hands, may I recommend Ken's Guide to the Bible? He runs through everything you need to know and highlights all the juicy parts that your pastor may have not chosen to point out: http://www.amazon.com/Kens-Guide-Bible- ... 0922233179

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... bible.html

By Davit Plotz. May focus more on old testement, I think he wrote a couple of books like this since his slate blog was so popular. Didn't break link because it is slate.