Another Bates Courtship

[freethemall]

Okay I'm a little late, but my two cents:

- I LOLed when I read "a local restaurant where Whitney works, called Sonic" as though it is this unique little place that can only be found in their neck of the woods. Yes, Kelly, most of us have heard of this cream pie milkshake marvel.

- Looking through Whitney's Pinterest, she is DEFINITELY fundie-lite, which I assumed just from the fact that she even works at Sonic and is going to school. All those images of jeans and tank-tops, some of the stuff on the humor board, and even those "questions to ask your future spouse" are not the typical courting questions - the word sex is in there! I do wonder if they made her wear that denim skirt and matching shirt, a taste of the world she's entering. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the more she gets into the more scared off she gets, and there could be another failed Zach courtship. Then again, she's already picked the wedding colors...(and I like them!)

[HereticHick]

Dang I was hoping her wedding colors would be Blush and Bashful.

[Markie]

Zach is the oldest of the Bates kids. He can remember a time when his family was fundy-lite. He probably remembers his mom wearing pants - GASP - and still loves and respects her. Zach also went along on the political campaign of that guy, Santrum (sorry, Canadian and can't really recall his name). He interacted with many fundy-lite people, both Catholic and Protestant (maybe some others, too) and was able to see that those people had a relationship with God and did not have to be so fundimentalist. He also has fundy-lite and mainstream Christian relatives. Zach can go fundie-lite and know his parents and fmaily will still love and respect him.

I think the Duggars would still love and respect their kids if they went fundy-lite, but there might be more pressure to bring them back into the fundy fold. The Maxwells would blow up if their children went fundy-lite. All in all, I like how candid Kelly is in her blog and how she supports her kids. I wish she and Gil would become more fundy-lite. Who knows, perhaps they are. Gil has a church; maybe his sermons are not so much fire and brimstone, but love and acceptance. One can only hope...

[becky4201]

Dang I was hoping her wedding colors would be Blush and Bashful.

A sanctuary hosed down with Pepto Bismol would have been the perfect touch.

[Kira]

Zach is the oldest of the Bates kids. He can remember a time when his family was fundy-lite. He probably remembers his mom wearing pants - GASP - and still loves and respects her. Zach also went along on the political campaign of that guy, Santrum (sorry, Canadian and can't really recall his name). He interacted with many fundy-lite people, both Catholic and Protestant (maybe some others, too) and was able to see that those people had a relationship with God and did not have to be so fundimentalist. He also has fundy-lite and mainstream Christian relatives. Zach can go fundie-lite and know his parents and fmaily will still love and respect him.

I think the Duggars would still love and respect their kids if they went fundy-lite, but there might be more pressure to bring them back into the fundy fold. The Maxwells would blow up if their children went fundy-lite. All in all, I like how candid Kelly is in her blog and how she supports her kids. I wish she and Gil would become more fundy-lite. Who knows, perhaps they are. Gil has a church; maybe his sermons are not so much fire and brimstone, but love and acceptance. One can only hope...

The inclusion of Rick Santorum in a discussion of fundie-lite Christians is the reason I have a problem with the the term "fundie-lite"

[anjulibai]

I get the feeling this courtship stuff is kind of for show for Hatreds family. From Kelly's posts, I find it hard to believe Zach and Whit have not been alone together before, and I would bet they have kissed. Zach and Whit could be doing all this for appearances, because it is just what is done in his family's circle.

[Mela99]

I get the feeling this courtship stuff is kind of for show for Hatreds family. From Kelly's posts, I find it hard to believe Zach and Whit have not been alone together before, and I would bet they have kissed. Zach and Whit could be doing all this for appearances, because it is just what is done in his family's circle.

Even if just at Sonic.

I still don't understand why they don't teach self-accountability. They must be really unsure and afraid of the way they've raised their kids.

[mockingbird]

I love both of these comments from Kelly, especially the second one.

Dear Luann,

I agree wholeheartedly. I have much admiration for couples who do decide to have a hands off relationship. I think the goal either way should be to honor God and maintain purity. To make one set of couple feel like their choice is “more special†than another’s is actually perspective…and that varies with people…and it can put pressure for them to conform to other’s opinions. I think each couple needs to seek God’s direction for them…and then realize it is just that…THEIR choice…not a dictate for all. We need to encourage each couple who are striving for wholesomeness, whether they choose to hold hands or not . Love, Kelly

I know this is still very restrictive (being about HOLDING HANDS), but I can appreciate that she acknowledges differing interpretations of "wholesomeness" are not necessarily wrong, just different - and even allows/trusts her kids to make this type of decision for themselves.

Dear Lilly,

My wishes are that they would each choose to wait until marriage to kiss. So far, they are all in strong agreement to waiting. Would I love them and still be their biggest fan if they don’t follow all my desires??? Yes!! Love, Kelly

I just love her enthusiasm here about how much she loves her kids. I agree with many others that the Bates see their kids as individuals/autonomous from them more than many other fundy families. I also got a laugh out of it because I pictured Stevehovah saying "No!!" in response to Kelly's question ;)

Also of note:

Dear Michelle,

He got busy doing work and ministry! He had some very good friends that were a source of strength, like John Duggar and Andy Leftwich…and later, Whitney! Ultimately, he leaned on the Lord! Love, Kelly

It seems like at least two of the kids are actually friends.

ETA: Whitney is "studying medical billing and coding and medical insurance."

[Justme]

What does Zach do for a living? Does he have a house? Did they ever say what Whitney is studying in college?

[ljohnson2006]

Yay Zach! I hope you haven't given away too many pieces of your heart this time. Hope it works out.

[EmiGirl]

Someone mentioned Gil is a pastor at a church. Does anyone know which one? I'm in the area and may be able to arrange to visit one Sunday.

[Mela99]

Yay!!! A degree in something you have to do outside the home!!!

Kelly gets a big thumbs up for the "I would still be their biggest fan if they didn't do what I would do".

ARE YOU LISTENING, BOOB?

[Guest]

Kelly says Whitney is studying medical coding and billing and medical insurance, and I don't think we've heard Zach doing anything besides being a First Responder of sorts (was he volunteering? I don't remember) and helping with his day's business.

EmiGirl- The information about Gil's church is on the homepage of their website:

Visit us at Bible Baptist Church on Sundays at 10 am, 11 am, & 6pm, or Wednesdays at 7pm. (Located in the Holiday Inn Express Conference Room, 111 Hillvale road, Clinton, TN

You should go and report back!

[GeoBQn]

I'm surprised Gil's church isn't invitation-only, like the Duggar church.

Zach was studying history, but now he appears to be doing some kind of bible study. Does he still have his elected position?

[HOTW]

In pairs. Erin needs an accountability buddy to go to her classes. Clown College has a LOT of rules about behavior and dress, and I'm sure Erin appreciates it. Then she doesn't have to see anyone with green hair :roll:

hmmm bet she would scream if she saw this!

[anjulibai]

I was the one that asked what Whitney was studying. I also asked what their plans were for after they marry, but Kelly didn't answer that.

Medical billing is something one can do at home, correct? Given that Zach has had to borrow money from Lawson, I'm glad they'll have a steady source of income available to them (lots of medical billings jobs out there, and some can be done at home).

[gypsygirl22]

Someone mentioned Gil is a pastor at a church. Does anyone know which one? I'm in the area and may be able to arrange to visit one Sunday.

Please do...and then come here and tell us about it!

[marmalade]

Has anyone found out if the girl's family is ATI, or plain ole IFB (I doubt they'd allow anything less rigid). At any rate, Zach looks far happier with this girl than the banjo player.

This goes back a few pages, but I have a question about Clown College's accreditation. The following was lifted from the website. Can anyone decipher the legalese? I'm not sure about the level of accreditation, only that it's a fairly recent development. Since Erin is due to graduate this fall, but started before accreditation, is her degree "real?"

The Crown College is a member of the Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools (TRACS), [15935 Forest Road, Forest, VA 24551; Telephone: (434) 525-9539; e-mail: info@tracs.org] having been awarded Candidate Status as a Category III institution by the TRACS Accreditation Commission on November 6, 2012. This status is effective for up to a period of five years. TRACS is recognized by the United States Department of Education, the Council for Higher Education Accreditation and the International Network for Quality Assurance Agencies in Higher Education (INQAAHE).

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

[16strong]

From what I can Google, Clown College is accredited by the Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools, which is a national accrediting agency. Basically, they are only as good as University of Phoenix and other such for profit schools. Most of their credits will not transfer to a traditional brick and mortar such as UT, which is regionally accredited. Also, apparently its accrediting agency, TRACS, has also had a very lengthy and sketchy record.

More at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnational_Association_of_Christian_Colleges_and_Schools

Here's another interesting website I found about CC: http://crowncollegelawsuits.com/accreditation.htm

Hope I helped clarify things!

[Bethella]

I'm happy for Zach and it's nice that Kelly and Gil now allow their children to hold hands during courtship. Still, the chaperones need to be present.

I wonder how long it takes married fundie couples to not feel like they're being watched all the time.

*snort* You're forgetting that GOD is always watching!! :lol:

[marmalade]

From what I can Google, Clown College is accredited by the Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools, which is a national accrediting agency. Basically, they are only as good as University of Phoenix and other such for profit schools. Most of their credits will not transfer to a traditional brick and mortar such as UT, which is regionally accredited. Also, apparently its accrediting agency, TRACS, has also had a very lengthy and sketchy record.

More at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnational_Association_of_Christian_Colleges_and_Schools

Here's another interesting website I found about CC: http://crowncollegelawsuits.com/accreditation.htm

Hope I helped clarify things!

It's just about how I pictured it. The degree still won't be worth much more than the paper it's written on. I've looked over the curriculum (as much as they disclose), and there is nothing that leads me to believe that Clown College encourages critical thinking in any subject.

I'm pretty sure that once Whitney marries Zach, she'll be expected to conform, and he's never exhibited any public behavior or statements that would lead me to believe he'll trend fundie lite. To the contrary, I think that once Whitney is wedded and bedded, she'll never wear pants again. She may be happy now, but I worry for girls who have experienced a bit of the world, but get pulled into the ATI (or any uber-fundie) lifestyle.

If she's not even IFB, and attends a "normal" college, even as a preacher's daughter, she might be in for a shock that she might not be seeing at this point of life when stars are in her eyes. Her Pinterest was a revealing window into her psyche; thanks to the poster who found it. She's already submitting to chaperones; gradually chipping away her "worldly" life experiences before the wedding should be a piece of (wedding) cake (also covered on her Pinterest page).

As if, darling. The more I think about her, the less I think she really has her eyes open, looking for that MRS. degree from medical transcription/billing school.

[bananacat]

Yay!!! A degree in something you have to do outside the home!!!

Kelly gets a big thumbs up for the "I would still be their biggest fan if they didn't do what I would do".

ARE YOU LISTENING, BOOB?

Meh, it's easy enough for her to say it. I won't believe it until a child actually does something she disagrees with, like dye their hair green or become and atheist.

[bananacat]

I'm happy for Zach and it's nice that Kelly and Gil now allow their children to hold hands during courtship. Still, the chaperones need to be present.

I wonder how long it takes married fundie couples to not feel like they're being watched all the time.

Zach is 25. It's not Gill or Kelly's place to allow anything when he's a freaking adult. So not really something to be happy about, IMO, just another thing that highlights their abusive control-freak natures.

[Hisey]

Aren't these the folks that have security cameras around the rooms of their house so they can see when their kids are coming and going?

[Daenerys]

I'm surprised Gil's church isn't invitation-only, like the Duggar church.

Zach was studying history, but now he appears to be doing some kind of bible study. Does he still have his elected position?

Wow. I can't think of anything less Christian than a church that isn't open and welcoming to whoever wants to come and see what is going on.