The Truth About Ruth - Part 2 - Merge

[Sola]

One complicating factor: "Ruth" did say several times that she changed some of the details of her story (did she even specifically say she may have swapped genders or ages or names for her family members?) for privacy reasons. Putting that out there, and then leaving a faint trail to the [redacted] family, could have been another bid on her part for authenticity.

If she claims to be be from a family whose minor details she changed to protect privacy, then leads us in the direction of a possible family that matches her story in several ways but differs on the details (like the gender and ages of the youngest children), a lot of people might think that the discrepancies are not a scam, but her attempt at "privacy." It would actually lend legitimacy in their eyes, rather than raise suspicions.

I'm sure that's how she would explain it, anyway, if caught out. "Yes, you got me, that's my family, but I changed some details. I'm not a scammer." But the only way to verify the truth would be to get her to prove her identity, and because of the supposed "legal name change," that's yet another layer of plausible deniability. "Oh, my ID no longer says [redacted] because I changed my name for a fresh start." Or "I use my middle name as my first name," etc.

But we know the [redacted] family has a Ruth who is a doula, who by all appearances is still a part of the family, so the chances of that being our "Ruth" are slim to none.

I don't know. This is all speculation. I'm rambling. Perhaps the [redacted] family is NOT her inspiration at all, and like Rachel333 says, it's all just a coincidence owing to certain inevitable similarities from being part of the same subculture.

I don't think RR is [redacted]. But if RR is a fake, which is looking increasingly likely, it's quite plausible that 'she' took events and names from a variety of QF ATI blogs ad combined them into her 'story'.

I wonder, has anyone noticed whether events on RR's blog are similar to events on other blogs? Her broken leg? The nanny job? Any others?

[feministing]

Interesting inconsistency:

You all seem to claim that Ruth can be [redacted].

What do you have to say to her "family members" posting and calling her Mary-Ruth on the thread?

Something is fishy here.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Interesting inconsistency:

You all seem to claim that Ruth can be [redacted].

What do you have to say to her "family members" posting and calling her Mary-Ruth on the thread?

Something is fishy here.

I'm completely unconvinced that there is any tangible connection between "Ruth" and the [redacted], apart maybe from "Ruth" using their blog to model some details of her own story. Her "family members" are definitely socks, no doubt about that IMO.

ETA: Does anyone think that maybe the "Razing Ruth Without Pity" blog is also one of her socks? Or is it just a dumb ATIer?

[apple1]

Somebody asked about the Vyckie connection, here is what I remember of that:

Vyckie of NLQ featured Ruth's story and blog

Vyckie vouched for Ruth. She said that Ruth had revealed her real identity to her.

Sometime later Vyckie privately encouraged PrincessJo to question Ruth's story here on FJ

PrincessJo started a thread questioning Ruth's identity and was slammed for it pretty hard.

My guess is that Ruth told Vyckie that she was from a certain family (maybe this [redacted] family) and revealed a few bits of info to make it seem legit. Vyckie featured Ruth on NLQ and got lots of hits. I always thought Ruth's NLQ story was one of the most interesting and well written. Maybe Vyckie started to realize that Ruth was faking but couldn't admit it because of the damage it would do to NLQ and so she encouraged PrincessJo to do the dirty work for her.

THAT. (This was on the Yuku board IIRC).

[apple1]

So basically despite RR allegedly being verified by Vyckie. Vyckie suspected she was a fraud and used Jo to perpetuate it. How lovely.

Exactly. Unfortunately, although NLQ has probably helped some people, this is not atypical for Vyckie. Vyckie is (IMHO) a vile human being who has been a USER of others (including her own kids) pretty much forever. The only part that changed when she changed from being a QF extreme fundamentalist to an ex-QF atheist (her words, not mine) was to whom and how she directed her using of others.

Maybe OT somewhat, but I have an extreme contempt for that woman.

[Mustang Sally]

Interesting inconsistency:

You all seem to claim that Ruth can be [redacted].

What do you have to say to her "family members" posting and calling her Mary-Ruth on the thread?

Something is fishy here.

Okay, so 1) I don't think anyone here actually thinks that RC is our "Ruth." One or two people said that in a fit of speculation, later rescinded, and everyone else felt bad about it. Several other people have been careful to explicitly say that we actually have ZERO reason to suspect that RC is "Ruth."

2) Her "family members" posting on RR were likely "Ruth" herself, and because it was likely a fictional story, she could make them call her any damn thing she wanted.

[Ralar]

Oddeverything:

A few things you may want to add to your list.

On 1/8/12 Razing Ruth indicated that her username for MakazVille is OfDuggar. Although a different site, the unique name convinces me that she is the OfDuggar poster on TWOP. http://freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic. ... ar#p167512

On November 5, 2010, Razing Ruth explicitly states that she does not have children. razingruth.blogspot.com/2010/11/long-e-mail-list-of-questions.html Her TWOP post indicates that she is a "mom", which would indicate (to me) that she is raising a child. I think it's unusual, if not unheard of, that a woman who had an abortion, miscarriage, or otherwise lost a child OR a birth mother who opted for adoption would refer to herself as a "mom".

Another thing: didn't she have a problem with the family for whom she was employed as a nanny? I think it occurred about the time she broke her leg. Perhaps Harris rescued her from that situation?

[library_youth]

Ruth claimed she hurt her leg again during the nanny gig after stepping in a hole. Her employer got angry with her for not being able to do her job properly, so she was basically kicked out of their home and had to go live in a hotel (with money provided to her by the sympathetic husband of the crazy woman). It sounded like something that would have happened in the book The Nanny Diaries.

[tinylegs1]

Another thing: didn't she have a problem with the family for whom she was employed as a nanny. I think it occurred about the time she broke her leg. Perhaps Harris rescued her from TNT situation?

Yes and it was one of the first big red flags for me. It was all very odd. I've been a live in nanny and seen some crazy stuff but it was weird.

I have a horrible memory, but it had to do with not getting paid. Didn't they pay her in gift cards or something?

[Vex]

I'm a bit surprised nobody has suggested the 'I'm a mother thing' was a lie and then suggested the rest of her inconsistencies can be explained by lies she tells to protect her identity - she has so many rabid fans that I was expecting to see that defense somewhere.

I never followed her story closely enough to notice the inconsistencies. I didn't know about her pregnant sister's lesbian adoption, or the hospital or job offer dramas or really follow her blog for long enough stretches of time to notice the never-ending bad stuff. I read her series on NLQ, I read her blog occasionally - when she got engaged, when she broke up, and I occasionally offered sympathy or good wishes on FJ and her blog. I guess I was taken in, though I never fully trust stories like this without independent verification.

Seeing all the major events summed up though, it's very obvious something is seriously wrong. I'm a frequent reader of Warrior Eli Hoax and this just smacks of Munchhausen by internet. I thought it was likely she was a genuine ex-Fundie until this stuff with the C-family came up. There are just too many similarities for me to believe she didn't rip them off. A lot of us on FJ who haven't been involved in ATI/Q but who have read extensively on the subject (especially ex-fundie books and blogs) could probably write a pretty detailed fictional account of abuse at the hands of an ATI family. I think she probably made everything up.

[Peas n carrots]

Boy, all put together she sure seems to have a lot of employment problems. She gets fired from the nanny gig, kicked off the property she was living on/overseeing for supposedly stealing, gets stiffed I her waitressing job on a regular basis, and has meanies at her latest job and a boss that criticizes her wardrobe. Sheesh, in retrospect it's almost like she is pointing out she isn't trustworthy...the only commonality of all those crappy job situations is R/M!

[Savoring Samsara]

Could somebody sum up the reasons there are for thinking that Ruth and Possummomma/PennMommy are the same person? I'm unfamiliar with the Possummomma story and unclear on how to get from A to B on that one.

[nokidsmom]

I'm calling Ruth a fake and a liar. I just PM'ed Odds to give her my brief online experience with Ruth, but I'm going to post it here. When Ruth posted she was moving to Chicago I PM'ed her and told her I lived in downtown Chicago and I told her a bit about me and offered to meet her and take her out to lunch. I also offered the household contents and business clothing (ranging in size from 8 to 16....don't judge, I happen to like chocolate) since I moved in with my SO (and no longer work) and no longer needed an entire house of furnishings or business clothes in my three storage lockers. I gave her my real name to google and my SO's name to google because he is a prominent trial lawyer and there is enough media coverage about him. I further offered him up (along with his children and daughter-in-law who are all lawyers and one is an Assistant DA) should she need any legal help here. I basically was being kind in my email offering her help. Days went by and she responded with the following PM.

Re: Hi-From a Chicago Girl

Sent: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:40 pm

From: razingruth

To: NDC22

Thank you for your email. As soon as I get to an actual keyboard I will reply appropriately.

razingruth

Frumper Lover

Posts: 144

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:22 am

So, she doesn't have a keyboard to write anything more, yet she was able to blog two long posts after she responded to me? I would think someone moving to Chicago, without any household furnishings, would jump all over that, she didn't even need to meet up with me either. Another FJ poster, the crockpot offerer, has had more emails from Ruth during the period Ruth couldn't correspond with me due to not having a keyboard. Hmmmmm, is it because she googled the name of my SO and found out about his background or the fact his DiL is an Assistant DA?

Sorry I didn't spell check this or grammar check it. It is 2 in the morning, I've spent the last hour getting schooled about the fraud that is Ruth and I'm pissed off for offering support and help to a whack job.

I am in the Chicago area as well. While I didn't have any direct contact with RR, I was willing to give her some new household items I didn't end up needing and agreed when an FJer suggested a welcome wagon for her. Interesting how she responded to your offer and I can sure see how your SO's occupation being a factor, especially in light of all we have learned and figured out in recent days.

This was the first time ever I was willing to offer assistance to someone I did not know and off the internet. I drew the line at the items, not money. I don't feel bad about offering the assistance for myself but can totally see how you (and others) are pissed off. I did think that if RR was indeed real, it would be proven with this Chicago move because of people like you offering help. If she was real, along with her job and living situation, she would jump at it or least consider it and say so, even if she was not available to actually meet. But now I think we have our answer as the reality of RR.

ETA: Goodwill got the items a couple of days ago. I was holding on to them in case they would be needed, but after this weekend's relevations, I got rid of them.

[LucySnowe]

I was very interested to read this:

getoffmyinternets.net/forums/fundie-blogging/razing-ruth

FJ getting discussed in the comments too there :whistle:

Oh god, GOMI with the incessant animated gifs standing in for actual content and the ham and Franzia and hamcats (wtf?) and so sorry so fat basement dwellers, and the site is the most bandwidth-sucking...er...*forces myself back on topic*

I'm pretty sure I'm on record saying that I think She Was For Real, so I'll try not to retcon myself. It did strike me as interesting that there was a continual undercurrent of Is She For Real which simply wouldn't go away, and didn't seem to be the same few people always bringing that up. Something was off, even if people weren't able to quite pin it down.

[klf7412]

9) The book. Ruth mentioned, in her wall of text posted in her blog on June 30, that she'd had a book deal fall apart because the publishers wanted her to out her brothers and write an expose on Gothard, which she refused to do because too many people relied on ATI for their living. Okay, bizarre enough, but that was the first I had heard of a book. I traced back all references to a book in her blog and on her Facebook.

One June 10, 2012, she says:

In June of last year it was a musing, nothing more. Just the end thought at the end of all the ways her life might, in some way, get better financially. (And note all the bad things that happened. Just another example of how the horror never ended.)

She mentions nothing about writing a book again for months. On December 23, 2012, she mentions this, in a long list of things she wants to have happen in her life, all of which are "Chris Angle" type things, meaning she needs magic for them to happen:

Nothing there about a book contract, just a desire for enough to time to write one.

But wait! Back on November 13, 2012 she left this comment here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13842&hilit#p420855

She says:

In November she has been working with a publisher on writing magazine articles. Okay, that is a strange way to put it, that a publishing company wants her to write articles that could become a book. A book publisher generally comes to you after you've received accolades for good magazine articles, but generally you have to make a pitch and without the articles there is nothing to pitch, but never mind. The real issue here is that she mentions writing a book later, when a month earlier she was working on magazine articles that might become a book if people are interested.

And then we hear nothing about the book again for seven months until Ruth writes a list of all the ills in her life, from being stalked by the woman who came to her workplace, to all us meanies asking her questions, to the dissolution of her book deal. From her article on June 30, she says:

So, we went from musing about a book a year ago, to working with a publisher to write magazine articles that might become a book, to needing time to write a book, to having the entire book deal blown due to her innate integrity in a year. This is utter nonsense and even if one does not know all the details of how the publishing industry works, her inability to keep her details straight is a giveaway this is a lie. And it's another example of how it is she can never, ever, never reveal her name!

There is so much more. Please let me know if you have information to add to this. It would be nice if we could make a large list like this and keep adding to it as we go along and get more details. That way we will have all the information on one link. It may seem like overkill to some, but I take Free Jinger very seriously. I am focused on a handful of fundies and generally only speak up when I find something about those specific people to discuss, but this site showed me troubles in this world I didn't know about. I had thought being a Southern Baptist refugee was hard and then I found this site and found out the real truth behind the Christian patriarchy. Someone has used the identity of the abused women we long to help to fleece good and honest and kind people. And her perfidy, if unaddressed, can taint the entire mission of FJ. That is unacceptable and to me there is no such thing as too much discussion as long as we are polite and as long as none of us harass the Ruth spots on the Internet.

Edited because I borked my quotes six ways to Sunday.

Someone may have already said this, but I wanted to point it out incase no one has...A while ago, Ruth posted on Free Jinger about her real name.. She wrote something to the tune of "My real name, which is Mary, btw" .. During this post, she also mentioned that this is the beginning of her coming out with her real identity- because she was writing a book and her real name would be used when it was published.

[Morton Fan]

I am in the Chicago area as well. While I didn't have any direct contact with RR, I was willing to give her some new household items I didn't end up needing and agreed when an FJer suggested a welcome wagon for her. Interesting how she responded to your offer and I can sure see how your SO's occupation being a factor, especially in light of all we have learned and figured out in recent days.

This was the first time ever I was willing to offer assistance to someone I did not know and off the internet. I drew the line at the items, not money. I don't feel bad about offering the assistance for myself but can totally see how you (and others) are pissed off. I did think that if RR was indeed real, it would be proven with this Chicago move because of people like you offering help. If she was real, along with her job and living situation, she would jump at it or least consider it and say so, even if she was not available to actually meet. But now I think we have our answer as the reality of RR.

ETA: Goodwill got the items a couple of days ago. I was holding on to them in case they would be needed, but after this weekend's relevations, I got rid of them.

It was especially telling that she mentioned several times how FJ people were her "only friends" (or whatever), yet didn't feel "safe" enough to meet up with even one confirmed FJ member.

[nokidsmom]

I'm completely unconvinced that there is any tangible connection between "Ruth" and the [redacted], apart maybe from "Ruth" using their blog to model some details of her own story. Her "family members" are definitely socks, no doubt about that IMO.

ETA: Does anyone think that maybe the "Razing Ruth Without Pity" blog is also one of her socks? Or is it just a dumb ATIer?

I agree that RR is not a member of this family at all but with the similiarities, may have used them as a model for her own family. As to the "family members" responding to her, I agree that they had to be socks. Given her constant statements on needing to guard her privacy, and being web-saavy enough to install a bot to prevent archiving, I can't see that she would allow them to actually respond. Plus if her true family were really speaking out, wouldn't we have found evidence elsewhere of them doing the same in other venues?

[nokidsmom]

It was especially telling that she mentioned several times how FJ people were her "only friends" (or whatever), yet didn't feel "safe" enough to meet up with even one confirmed FJ member.

Yes, and she stated on her blog that she had met some FJer's (the new normal post) yet at the same time, no one from here had confirmed any meeting. And that was before everything blew up, so it's not like anyone here would be wary of saying so which would be possible (and understandable) afterward.

[Closed Womb]

It's also very possible that the commenter who brought up the picture was for real (I mean, a real commenter, not a sock) who thought s/he was all sorts of genius for figuring it out (there are some similarities, after all). R/M could have just thought, "Thanks for the red herring, sucker!" and left it up there as a diversion.

[Curious]

I will be posting an administrative message on this topic today. It's still being put together and proofed, so no one needs to compulsively hit refresh. It will be a little while yet.

[Morton Fan]

It's also very possible that the commenter who brought up the picture was for real (I mean, a real commenter, not a sock) who thought s/he was all sorts of genius for figuring it out (there are some similarities, after all). R/M could have just thought, "Thanks for the red herring, sucker!" and left it up there as a diversion.

It's certainly possible, though I have to wonder ... did Razing Ruth ever actually show up on fundie's radars in a meaningful way, or were the only fundies who actually cared about her 'story' the ones she created as socks (the fake commenters, fake Darth Daddy, the fake Razing Ruth Without Pity blog, etc. -- if they are fake, that is)? I don't think I've ever seen any actual fundie blog we discuss here really have any reaction at all to RR.

[OkToBeTakei]

I will be posting an administrative message on this topic today. It's still being put together and proofed, so no one needs to compulsively hit refresh. It will be a little while yet.

YOU ARE SO MEAN!!!! :lol:

That's like telling me there is ice-cream but it will be a while freezing :lol:

[Morton Fan]

YOU ARE SO MEAN!!!! :lol:

That's like telling me there is ice-cream but it will be a while freezing :lol:

I KNOW! I will indeed be compulsively hitting refresh!!

ETA: a little while yet? Vague enough to make me compulsively hit refresh (see above), specific enough to make me cancel my evening plans. Patience: I'm not good at it.

[Closed Womb]

For those of you in the know about this sort of thing, is this part of the cycle something the scammer enjoys? Watching people try to figure it out? Or is it more, "Oh crap it's over?"

Also, does anyone have any hope that there is still some reasonable explanation? I guess I just want to believe in the good in people too much b/c I'm still hoping this will all be cleared up.

I guess it depends on what one considers reasonable.

Personally, I think it is possible that R/M-OfDuggar does not have a child and made that offhanded comment on the 16 and pregnant thread in order to give herself credibility in that particular subject. I think it is likely that R/M forgot that OfDuggar made that comment. And I think that would be reasonable and forgivable, if that was all it was (ie, Razing Ruth was on the up and up and just exaggerated for effect in an online forum once upon a time.)

Mind you, I am not of the opinion that she is legit. Looking at the blog, the downtrodden life, the complete lack of buzz on ATI family blogs about this rebel daughter, her father's death, or any other facet of the family, the unlikeliness that she could have actually gotten a library job, the one time mention of a brother with advanced cancer, the implicit and explicit requests for money (but no durable goods, please!), etc., etc., etc. makes it look like she either started out as, or quickly became, the scamming scammer who scams.

Of course, some people would thing that is reasonable. Hell, we've already seen that sorry narrative -- what harm is she doing by just lying? Buyer beware! (Scammers gotta make a living too?) :roll:

(Also, dying to know how much she rakes in. Her fangirls are in full worship of her. No way I think she is bringing in only $40 [or whatever pittance she once mentioned.] I think she could be making a living.)

[Closed Womb]

It's certainly possible, though I have to wonder ... did Razing Ruth ever actually show up on fundie's radars in a meaningful way, or were the only fundies who actually cared about her 'story' the ones she created as socks (the fake commenters, fake Darth Daddy, the fake Razing Ruth Without Pity blog, etc. -- if they are fake, that is)? I don't think I've ever seen any actual fundie blog we discuss here really have any reaction at all to RR.

I don't know of any fundies who have any interest at all in this story. It's one of the reasons I think it's bullshit, through and through.

What I meant was that maybe a legit reader (not necessarily fundie), who happened to know of the C family (or any one of the other families that are on that slide), thought s/he had it all figured out and "called" her on it. Although untrue, it would only benefit R/M to have the misdirection, especially if she was purposefully scamming.