The Truth About Ruth - Part 2 - Merge

[NDC22]

I KNOW! I will indeed be compulsively hitting refresh!!

ETA: a little while yet? Vague enough to make me compulsively hit refresh (see above), specific enough to make me cancel my evening plans. Patience: I'm not good at it.

Great....I'm starting a two hour workout shortly....how many "bathroom breaks" do you think I can take before my trainer figures out that "bathroom" means checking FJ?

[rward]

Exactly. Unfortunately, although NLQ has probably helped some people, this is not atypical for Vyckie. Vyckie is (IMHO) a vile human being who has been a USER of others (including her own kids) pretty much forever. The only part that changed when she changed from being a QF extreme fundamentalist to an ex-QF atheist (her words, not mine) was to whom and how she directed her using of others.

Maybe OT somewhat, but I have an extreme contempt for that woman.

THANK YOU.

As soon as she was no longer able to make money/garner fame from QF (due to her inability to have more children) she immediately switched sides. She didn't suddenly see any light but greed.

And don't even get me started on Vyckie's NLQ story. Nothing is ever Vyckie's fault, Vyckie is as pure and innocent as the driven snow and why does everyone do horrible things to Vyckie over and over? :pull-hair:

[Peas n carrots]

Yes, and she stated on her blog that she had met some FJer's (the new normal post) yet at the same time, no one from here had confirmed any meeting. And that was before everything blew up, so it's not like anyone here would be wary of saying so which would be possible (and understandable) afterward.

With the crockpot poster (I'll go through the thread and finder her userID) that makes 4 of us who contacted her with offers of goods but no reply to those. For someone who made it sound as if she had absolutely nothing, and needed new clothes etc I would think they would take up the offer.

And didn't feel "safe" to meet an FJ member...I was always very clear about meeting in a public place...not just to put her at ease but for my own safety as well.

I'm not personally too bothered about the whole Ruth fiasco, I think my donations to her in cash totaled less than $50 and that was during the time of Rachel's pregnancy. After the adoption to lesbian moms, I started thinking it sounded all too precious, and I was a bit more skeptical, but hey I'm willing to help out but this time I only felt comfortable offering hard goods. I'm glad I listened to my inner BS detector this time.

But no one should feel bad at all for being generous, good hearted people.

LOL @ SO being a trial lawyer. I bet that scared the shizzz out of M/R.

[mrs]

I am trying to catch up on this "fast moving" thread. So I apologize if this information has already been posted.

I remembered something else that seems off about her story. She wrote about being featured in a article (http://razingruth.blogspot.com/2012/03/article.html). It turns out the article was over a year old.

This quote from an old thread is interesting, Serious_News_Junkie, wrote:(http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... 2&start=60):

I'm a long-time lurker but a first-time poster. I too have grown increasingly suspicious of the Razing Ruth blog during the past few months. I'm not prepared to say that the author is lying; however, I am starting to have my doubts. Real life typically doesn't read like a scripted serial drama. Ruth's story has more cliffhangers and plot twists than a daytime soap opera.

About a month ago, Ruth said that she'd been quoted in an article about Bill Gothard and that she was worried about the unwanted attention it might bring her. When one of the commenters noted that the article to which she'd linked was more than a year old and asked for an explanation, Ruth never replied. Along those same lines, I recently spoke to an ATI survivor who said she reached out to Ruth and never got a reply. I've also been told that Ruth seldom acknowledges donations made through her PayPal link.

This is all far from conclusive, but coupled with the unnatural story arcs that make up Ruth's tale and the perfect timing of some of the plot twists, I'm considering removing the Razing Ruth link from my "The Duggar Cult" information page. Ruth's story is one of the most compelling anti-Gothardism stories on the Internet, but I'd hate for the entire push against Gothardism to fall apart simply because one popular blog is revealed to be a hoax/fraud.

You would think if Ruth was in dire needs of funds she would "sell" her story to the media. I believe some former quiverfull members have been featured on various shows.

[tuckerphez]

On a random note, didn't Ruth say a boss at her new job liked her because she was good at looking up obscure information/had google-fu?

Yet she couldn't figure out how to block evil family members, research ways to lower her latest hospital bill, etc... :think:

It's like Superman saying he has x-ray vision but when you ask him to look through a wall he says he can't do it.

[salsa]

Wow. Don't check fj for a few days and look what happens. I'm a more casual participant in fj, and not among the well-known members, but I'm chiming in my reassurance anyway - anyone who gave, gave out of kindness. What someone else does with your kindness is up to them.

... and as to the rr thing itself - why am I not surprised? I only read her blog 2 or 3 times, but I can't say that I noticed anything at the time that screamed, "Hey! This is totally made up!" She's a good one.

Hindsight is 20/20 and when I think about it, it did kind of surprise me how articulate she was. Someone upthread mentioned how it seemed scripted. The inconsistencies and overplaying didn't stand out specifically, since

[Jezebel]

I haven't been to TWoP in years, so I had no idea about ofDuggar. Wow.

My first suspicions arose during her relationship with Harris. It just seemed so strange to me that she could come out of a culture obsessed with female purity and submission and have a functional, fairly happy relationship on the first try. And there was something about the whole romantic marriage-proposal scenario that struck me as something she'd seen in a movie or read in a book. Her writing barely gave me a sense of what Harris was actually like--he was a cardboard cut-out, in my mind--so when she gave such a detailed description of his proposal it struck me as bizarre.

And then Harris' mother insisted they all fly back to Arkansas to visit Ruth's parents in person. You would think, given "Darth Daddy's" subsequent emails and blog comments, and the comment left by her "brother" in which he addressed her as Ruth Mary, that Ruth would already have ample email evidence why that was a bad idea. Hell, even a phone conversation would have been enough to show Mama Harris the futility of that. But no--they had to go to Arkansas. Where, of course, Ruth got to see her sad, oppressed mother and meet her new baby sister in a poignant scene.

The breakup with Harris also seemed implausible. Here was the boyfriend she'd confided so much in, who knew her story and the culture she'd come from, who had seen her through so much--and he breaks up with her because she's reluctant to start having kids in the near future? After all that, he throws down an ultimatum because his controlling mother is demanding grandbabies right away? It just didn't seem plausible at all. But as I've said, Harris never seemed plausible. I never got a sense of a real personality behind all that amazing loyalty and devotion, and that steadfastness didn't seem to match up with the compliant Mama's-boy he turned out to be.

Other things--the broken leg, the way her nanny job ended--didn't ring true. And after a few more Perils-of-Pauline-worthy blows of cruel fate, and the absurdly improbable adoption of "Rachel's" baby to a lesbian couple before "Rachel" herself gave up and returned to the quiver, I stopped reading.

I will say this: I almost donated $50 to help bring "Rachel" to California. But as I went into PayPal, I got a tight feeling in the pit of my stomach. I couldn't articulate why I felt giving her money was a bad idea; I just knew it was. I used to make a very good living as a day trader, and the feeling I got was the exact same one that told me I was about to make a bad trade. And that "gut feeling," however non-rational it may be, has never steered me wrong.

I think the final blow was when "Darth Daddy" made his appearance in the comments. All that out-of-control, half-literate ranting? It was like a caricature of the controlling, religion-crazed patriarch. If Ruth's alleged father was so concerned about avoiding public disgrace, why would he show up on Ruth's much-discussed blog and rage at her in the comments? Why would he draw attention to himself, and his wayward daughter, like that? I decided then that Ruth was very likely a fake, or at least slapping thick coats of varnish on the truth.

Other things bothered me, too. Her lack of friends IRL. The fact that nobody, among the relatively small circle of homeschoolers in NWA, had even a guess as to who her family was. The death of her father--someone well-known in ATI circles--with no obituary or any mentions whatsoever in the blogs of people who might have known him. You'd think a big family, well-placed in ATI circles, in which several children and an infant were left fatherless and their mother widowed, would warrant prayer requests by their friends and acquaintances? But there was nothing. And that silence told me everything I needed to know.

I didn't say anything because I had no proof. Also, since she wasn't actively soliciting donations--in fact, she kept taking down the PayPal button every time some anon criticized her in the comments--I couldn't come up with a decent motive. Even attention-grabbing didn't seem to be behind it because she posted so rarely. And since she went so long between posts sometimes, and I never went back to read her old posts, I forgot a lot of things she said (her brother's melanoma, for example). So many inconsistencies went unnoticed by me because I had time to forget about what she'd said previously. And even the endless tales of woe got a pass from me because she wrote infrequently enough. It was only when she told a whopper that I sat up and took notice.

I've avoided Ruth threads for a long time because without proof or even a good motive I couldn't make a case for her being a scammer. I also don't like getting into arguments on the internet over shit that doesn't really concern me. I figured the truth would come out in time--and frankly, I'm relieved to see it has.

[treemom]

Yes and it was one of the first big red flags for me. It was all very odd. I've been a live in nanny and seen some crazy stuff but it was weird.

I have a horrible memory, but it had to do with not getting paid. Didn't they pay her in gift cards or something?

The broken leg was actually one my my first doubting things. But I have gone back and forth since then.

[Sola]

THANK YOU.

As soon as she was no longer able to make money/garner fame from QF (due to her inability to have more children) she immediately switched sides. She didn't suddenly see any light but greed.

And don't even get me started on Vyckie's NLQ story. Nothing is ever Vyckie's fault, Vyckie is as pure and innocent as the driven snow and why does everyone do horrible things to Vyckie over and over? :pull-hair:

What if Ruth is Vyckie?

[thoughtful]

What if Ruth is Vyckie?

[SamuraiKatz]

I will be posting an administrative message on this topic today. It's still being put together and proofed, so no one needs to compulsively hit refresh. It will be a little while yet.

This is an interesting turn of events. I shall check back this evening.

I've had my doubts about Ruth. I've tried to keep my interaction with her positive/neutral. Never gave her money via pay pal though.

I work in an academic library as a paraprofessional. All of the full librarian searches are done on a national scale via advertising in the Chronicle of Higher Education and professional organization publications like those put out by the American Library Association or Special Libraries Association. My organization gets a minimum of 50 or so applications for any librarian position that is available. The search committee narrows the pool of applicants down to a final number...this group is interviewed via Skype or by conference call. The final two or three are brought in at our expense to interview in person. The person who makes the final cut is relocated to my state. I am the one that handles the travel and relocation logistics. The Library pays for the relocation expenses up to a predetermined amount. The entire process takes...months...

My BS O'meter went off when Ruth suddenly moved to IL to work in a library position paying a relatively low hourly rate.

Samurai Katz

[NDC22]

HA! Bathroom break. I started cracking up thinking what if Smugger was Ruth, he was a beggar troll....but that would require actual work as opposed to just hitting a button on his phone to snap a pic. No, I really don't think it is a possibility, I just thought oh my, that would be icing on the crazy cake.

And yeah, having a SO as a trial lawyer leads to drama every day, ask the question "what do you want for dinner' and all of sudden he launches into dramatic closing statements.

Also, I want to just add when I said I was pissed that Ruth Scammerpie for not accepting help in the form of actual goods, the mad is more from a place of someone taking advantage of people's goodness, in the form of money, emotional support, warm thoughts & prayers, even giving her the benefit of doubt by continuing to read her blog. It sucks and I hate when people take advantage of others (maybe it chaps my large ass because I live with a lawyer and I hear horrible things every day, which should make me more skeptical and jaded). What I'm mad about it the "crying wolf" which could tarnish an actual real and good victim that may need help in the future, either in ATI/extereme fundie land or elsewhere.

To any Ruth supporters out there the end result is Ruth never met anyone in person, even in a public place, the only people she met are the people she herself has told us about. Never.

Btw, am I remembering that she claimed to have some sort of throat surgery before her leg accident? Sorry, I'm on a "bathroom break" so I can't read her stuff again, nor do I want to. I just want us to finish icing her crazy cake.

[OkToBeTakei]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ProfessorAndMaryAnn]

I recently found Ruth's blog (last month) and at first totally believed it. I felt so bad for the poor girl! I was thisclose to donating money, but Jesus stopped me. :-D

I was a little suspicious, but what made me start to seriously doubt was when I found her on Facebook. I read a few of her status' and one was, "Thank you for the birthday wishes from Friday. Things are going pretty well. Harris proposed on my birthday and I said yes. No date yet. We're still going to take things one day at a time." I found that so non-chalent and strange. Wouldn't most women be all, "I'M FUCKING ENGAGED!!!!!! THIS IS AMAZING!!!!!" But she didn't have so much as an exclamation mark.

I just can't believe someone put so much though and effort into a hoax!!! How much money could she have gotten? Anything significant? Or just a few hundred? We'll probably never know.

[thoughtful]

A thought -- when all of the smoke clears, might it be a good idea to have something in the FJ SOTDRT about RR -- perhaps Oddeverything's list of inconsistencies?

Right now, our reference section about people only includes fundies -- real, live, and still spouting the BS. But we might add a section on other people we have discussed at length, who are not really fundies.

I'm thinking RR, Aria/Elle, Vyckie. Sparkling Adventures Lauren, Helena and Currawong -- who am I missing (McKMama is already in the fundie section)?

It may be too much, out of the range of FJ, not our responsibility -- I can see that. But it might also save a lot of long explanations or searching for an old thread, which is a big part of what the SOTDRT is for.

And, heaven forbid I be serious for a whole post -- with both the jokes and real speculation of Josh/Vyckie/Alecto/Herbert Hoover being RR, I think "I'm Razing Ruth" should be a running gag. I'll start:

Ooooh, and "Secretly Razing Ruth" could be a post count title!

edited for riffles, riffles and more riffles.

[Peas n carrots]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Even though I have no idea where this is from, it's making me LOLOLOL

Interesting thought...or maybe Angel?

[Palimpsest]

Could somebody sum up the reasons there are for thinking that Ruth and Possummomma/PennMommy are the same person? I'm unfamiliar with the Possummomma story and unclear on how to get from A to B on that one.

Quickly and from memory:

Possummomma/Pennmommy was tracked to CA

RR was supposed to be in CA

Possum has written blog posts against the Duggars and QF. Writes as a former Catholic, now atheist.

Munchausen by Internet:

Possummomma had tales of woe -- claimed to have SLE -- socks (my opinion) Berlzebub and Calludus vouched for her sickness and raised money for window film. When excess $$ were raised Possum claimed to have given it to another family in need. This was 2006.

Pennmommy started by posing as a Gosselin insider (expert) on anti-Gosselin blog.

Then her son "Jason" got appendicitis and died. Much drama. Sock "William" another son started posting tearful flowery updates. No money was raised for this one IIRC. Donations to be sent to reputable charities.

Pennmommy was identified as Possum. Possum closed her blog -- this was probably Oct 2007 or 8 but my memory is horrible. Reopened blog early 2013

in March ? this year Possum had a blog post asking for people in N Chicago area to email her. No reason given.

For me, the writing styles are not that similar, even though the methods are. They may be two different people, but what makes me really suspicious is the last one.

[Mecca]

Of course, some people would thing that is reasonable. Hell, we've already seen that sorry narrative -- what harm is she doing by just lying? Buyer beware! (Scammers gotta make a living too?) :roll:

(Also, dying to know how much she rakes in. Her fangirls are in full worship of her. No way I think she is bringing in only $40 [or whatever pittance she once mentioned.] I think she could be making a living.)

That is the thing that burns my buns about a lot of this. There are people thinking this is not a big deal. I am sorry, but I think scamming people for money and attention is a rather crappy thing to do. There are numerous people that were very much concerned about Ruth and her well being. Sure, people should be cautious in regards to Internet stories and relationships, but the fault lies squarely at the feet of Ruth. She exploited people's goodness, and that is ethically and morally wrong in my book, not to mention what she does to the real victims of the fundie cult movement.

I, too, agree she is making more than the $40 on a good month as she claims. She would not keep doing this if there was not a benefit for herself.

[Clementine]

Yes and it was one of the first big red flags for me. It was all very odd. I've been a live in nanny and seen some crazy stuff but it was weird.

I have a horrible memory, but it had to do with not getting paid. Didn't they pay her in gift cards or something?

I think she worked as a nanny for a place to stay and food. The family would also provide her with small things that she needed, but instead of giving her pocket money to buy things like toothpaste or phone cards, she had to write what she needed on the shopping list in the kitchen.

I thought it was extremely odd and also an embarassing situation both for Ruth and the family to share that kind of information. I think most families would prefer to just hand her $50 and tell her to get what she need, rather than read: "OB tampons, soft shell, extra large" or whatever she is using.

I thouht it was a bit strange.

I rarely read here anymore, but I can't believe what has happened in the Ruth threads. I have been waiting for this day for more nearly three years and I must say that I am relieved that Pandora's box finally has been opened.

[Ralar]

Ooooh, and "Secretly Razing Ruth" could be a post count title!

:eleventy:

[thoughtful]

Even though I have no idea where this is from, it's making me LOLOLOL

That is Landru, a very Steve Maxwell-esque character from a Star Trek episode ( which is, interestingly enough, about a very fundie-like culture, and worth watching for FJers, I think):

http://www.hulu.com/watch/283874

It turns out that . . . (under a spoiler because it gives away the ending, in case anyone who's never seen it wants to watch it first) . . .

Landru is actually a computer, programmed to do whatever is best for "The Body" (the people on the planet). When it is proved to him that what he has been doing is bad for the The Body, he fizzles and sparks and breaks down.

[Palimpsest]

That is Landru, a very Steve Maxwell-esque character from a Star Trek episode ( which is, interestingly enough, about a very fundie-like culture, and worth watching for FJers, I think):

http://www.hulu.com/watch/283874

It turns out that . . . (under a spoiler because it gives away the ending, in case anyone who's never seen it wants to watch it first) . . .

Landru is actually a computer, programmed to do whatever is best for "The Body" (the people on the planet). When it is proved to him that what he has been doing is bad for the The Body, he fizzles and sparks and breaks down.

Oh my! Why did I never see the resemblance between Landru and Steve M before?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Clementine]

I started to doubt Ruth, or whoever is behind the blog, in 2010.

In late 2009 or early 2010, Ruth wrote that she had $30 per month to cover everything (food, phone cards, hygiene articles, clothes). I felt really sorry for her, even more so since I just had gotten out of a really rotten financial situation, the kind where I almost cried of happiness when I accidently found coins in a jar at home, because that meant that I could have food on the table for one more week.

I thought that I could at least double her monthly allowance, so I sent her $30 and wrote an encouraging note to go with it. I never heard a word from her, but the money was claimed from my PayPal account. She wrote on her blog that she was stressed and busy with school and I just thought that she eventually would send a reply.

The next month, I sent her another $30. The money was claimed, didn't hear from her. Figured she was busy.

Third month (yes, I am persistent or extremely stupid), I sent her $10 and then thought: I will not send more money until I hear something from her. A simple "thank you" will do. Maybe she is busy and will reply to three months of e-mails at once efter the school semester. I know that I have postponed answering to a lot of e-mails when my life has been crazy.

Summer came, I never heard a word from her. And that really made me suspicious. The "Ruth" person I had gotten to know on her blog and on FJ seemed to be an old-fashioned, well-mannered and polite young woman, afraid to put one foot wrong or offend anybody. Not even saying "thank you" to a stranger on the Internet who sends her money just didn't seem like her. Or anybody who has been brought up as a fundie - their main thing seems to be THANKFUL for all the blessings in life, blah, blah, blah.

Something was off.

A few months later Ruth wrote on her blog, in response to somebody asking about the tip jar, "besides, I don't make that much money from it". And I thought... right, that's it. I may have given her very small donations, but at least I doubled her spending money two months in a row and that should make some kind of difference to her. I know it would to me, if somebody just doubled my monthly food money. Even more so when I was broke.

That's my RR story. It's the first and the last time I will ever send money to a person on the Internet and I'll just bank it as learning money. I hope that whoever got them needed them better than I did or used them for something useful like a cocktail or two or a trip to the Mac cosmetics counter. :D

[Clementine]

Also, I want to just add when I said I was pissed that Ruth Scammerpie for not accepting help in the form of actual goods, the mad is more from a place of someone taking advantage of people's goodness, in the form of money, emotional support, warm thoughts & prayers, even giving her the benefit of doubt by continuing to read her blog. It sucks and I hate when people take advantage of others (maybe it chaps my large ass because I live with a lawyer and I hear horrible things every day, which should make me more skeptical and jaded). What I'm mad about it the "crying wolf" which could tarnish an actual real and good victim that may need help in the future, either in ATI/extereme fundie land or elsewhere.

That's how I feel too. It's a shame when bad people behave in a way that makes good people hesitant to help others who really need it. I feel sorry for all the real victims of ATI - they don't need spokespersons like Vyckie on NLQ or "Razing Ruth".

[lizziesmom]

The Chicago trip sent up all sorts of red flags for me. Internet access throughout the trip even when she was supposedly sleeping in her car or at a roach motel. The leaking windshield that had to be replaced. Then she arrives in Chicago and within two weeks she has to go to the emergency room. She has no money, no friends and claims she is depressed but she won't contact anyone who has offered her help. Ploy for donations IMO.