The Truth About Ruth - Part 2 - Merge

[Mustang Sally]

Did not seem to have ANY impact on McKMama. Rubber ball that one.

MckMama is a...unique case. I think she's not a hoax and not a Munchausen-by-Interneter in the classic sense...she's more someone who believes her own bullshit and thinks she is above the world. She thinks she can get away with anything, and so far the world has basically proved her right. She just keeps going. Many actual Munchausen by Internet people will slink away once they are found out because they know they've been caught in a lie. Not her!

[browngrl]

I just got through this epic thread. What a tangled web Ruth/Mary has woven. I never donated money to her but I certainly was caught up in her epic tale of woe and I bought the story she was selling. I feel a bit ashamed that I did not notice any of the red flags that have been pointed out in this thread. I've rationalized this by conceding that although I was duped - I got a good story for the price of a few comments saying something to the effect of "atta girl". I've paid considerably more for paperback or hardcover fiction. Anyway, I realize that there will probably be no nice neat ending to this but I wish that Ruth/Mary would come back and explain herself. Maybe that is a tale for another sock puppet. As an aside: I bow down to the internet sleuthing skills of some of the other people who have posted on this thread!

[Mustang Sally]

Anyone who has missed the previous thread really should read Oddeverything's epic post about the discrepancies in Ruth's story - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17372&p=583153#p583153

[Curious]

Hey folks,

I'm glad to see that we are self-moderating on this thread and not going off the deep end and jumping at shadows where they may not exist. Great job!

I want to make a comment about socks and newbies. Please don't start looking at every newbie with suspicion because it might be a RR sock. While it's possible that RR does have a sock here, we have NO indication that is the case.

Without going into detail on a public forum (which would be stupid), I can see we have a vastly more robust "sock-sniffing" protocol that was used by the previous administration and we have, naturally, stepped up measures in light of these recent developments.

I have been watching the thread and I have no reason to believe that we currently have any RR socks posting on it. I could be wrong, because there are certainly ways to get socks through, but at this point, we don't believe it's happened.

[Curious]

You know, it is amazing that with the amount of griping and moaning Ruth has done about that dang tip jar complicating things, she has made no effort to remove it. Yeah, not weird at all. :|

She actually did remove it once and fangirls on her blog lost their minds and requested she put it back up, so she did. I can't really recall when that was, but it was probably a couple years ago. I was reading her blog actively at that time and remember the comments about it.

[sassycupcake]

Also, does anyone have any hope that there is still some reasonable explanation? I guess I just want to believe in the good in people too much b/c I'm still hoping this will all be cleared up.

I also hope there is some sort of reasonable explanation or that some/most of Ruth's story is true, because the Gothardites are going to run with this if it turns out she's a fake.

I'm just really worried about any real escaped fundies who could be wrongly slandered, or would be denied help. And if Ruth's story was a source of inspiration/confidence to questioning QF daughters, finding out the story was fake could discourage them from running.

[Lainey]

She actually did remove it once and fangirls on her blog lost their minds and requested she put it back up, so she did. I can't really recall when that was, but it was probably a couple years ago. I was reading her blog actively at that time and remember the comments about it.

I remember it, too, but...fangirls, or socks? :think:

[flyawaystray]

MckMama is a...unique case. I think she's not a hoax and not a Munchausen-by-Interneter in the classic sense...she's more someone who believes her own bullshit and thinks she is above the world. She thinks she can get away with anything, and so far the world has basically proved her right. She just keeps going. Many actual Munchausen by Internet people will slink away once they are found out because they know they've been caught in a lie. Not her!

Mckmama did use Stellan's sickness to direct traffic to her blog, which made her money. And I think she's a scammer because her house conveniently caught fire right before a balloon payment was due on her house. She's burned through four other houses, usually leaving them a mess and not paying rent on them. She lied during her bankruptcy hearing, has crashed quite a few cars, she's lied to the IRS and I think is $700,000+ dollars in debt.

She is a vile human being.

She's also lied about her weight loss and pushes Xyng to the max, claiming that it cures a whole bunch of illnesses.

[Palimpsest]

Mustang Sally and Lainey, you are the two posters that rose to the top in this recent discussion, at least to me. Although there are many other great people posting here.

::Sally Field voice:: "I like you. I really Like you!!"

I seriously respect you for your investigative skills, demonstrated common sense and ethical values. Also, Mustang Sally's understanding when I got, and genuinely am, very squeamish about the innocents that can become involved here in the quest. Thanks.

Of course you could both be sock-puppets and I may be completely wrong!! :lol:

We do have to be very careful here. I'm actually not very worried about present posters on this thread and "questers" for the truth about RR (naïve as that might sound). I am worried about lurking socks who will go postal elsewhere with the info. We do also have to be very careful about potentially libelous comments.

And I know the Admins are doing their best to isolate and ban socks. But this crap is explosive.

Where is that popcorn? :popcorn2:

[Mecca]

She actually did remove it once and fangirls on her blog lost their minds and requested she put it back up, so she did. I can't really recall when that was, but it was probably a couple years ago. I was reading her blog actively at that time and remember the comments about it.

I vaguely remember that too, but it is back and has been for awhile. Something she claims brings her such grief still hangs around. And if this person, R/M, has been known to "embellish," how do we know it was not sock fan girls she created to lend credibility and add to her story? Now of course we have no clue, but I really do not trust anyone that always has their hand out and yet always claims they must keep their identity so closely guarded.

[Lainey]

Mustang Sally and Lainey, you are the two posters that rose to the top in this recent discussion, at least to me. Although there are many other great people posting here.

::Sally Field voice:: "I like you. I really Like you!!"

I seriously respect you for your investigative skills, demonstrated common sense and ethical values. Also, Mustang Sally's understanding when I got, and genuinely am, very squeamish about the innocents that can become involved here in the quest. Thanks.

Of course you could both be sock-puppets and I may be completely wrong!! :lol:

We do have to be very careful here. I'm actually not very worried about present posters on this thread and "questers" for the truth about RR (naïve as that might sound). I am worried about lurking socks who will go postal elsewhere with the info. We do also have to be very careful about potentially libelous comments.

And I know the Admins are doing their best to isolate and ban socks. But this crap is explosive.

Where is that popcorn? :popcorn2:

Awwww, thanks! I'm not a sock puppet--I'm ridiculously easy to identify. :embarrassed: I'm not comfortable publicly speculating using anyone's real name, unless there's proof. So I don't. But I can't control what others do. None of us can. I think that comment on Ruth's blog did exactly what it was designed to do--send everyone on a wild goose chase.

[Mama Mia]

Oh, I just came up with a great theory! Maybe a large part of her story is true, but the Rachel story is her as a young pregnant girl, who ends up giving the baby to her mother.....passing it off as moms change of life baby. And then runs off to start a new life. Maybe she's compelled to include that part of her history and work through it, but doesn't want to out that her baby sister is really her child.

Lots of other discrepencies in her story of course, but I think that would be an interesting twist.

[Mustang Sally]

Mckmama did use Stellan's sickness to direct traffic to her blog, which made her money. And I think she's a scammer because her house conveniently caught fire right before a balloon payment was due on her house. She's burned through four other houses, usually leaving them a mess and not paying rent on them. She lied during her bankruptcy hearing, has crashed quite a few cars, she's lied to the IRS and I think is $700,000+ dollars in debt.

She is a vile human being.

She's also lied about her weight loss and pushes Xyng to the max, claiming that it cures a whole bunch of illnesses.

Yeah, actually, that's kind of what I meant. I think she's more like a sociopath who manipulates people for the money than someone who is purely desperate for attention and makes their kid/themselves sick to get it, kwim? And I think she actually believes she's a good person and doing the right thing and above the world. That's a little different from a hoaxer who knows they are lying and understands that it's wrong. I don't know how to explain it exactly, but after watching several of these cases happen, I just feel like she doesn't fit neatly into the same category as, say, the Catfish lady from the original movie. She's not pathetic and sad, she's devious and awful, yet strangely amoral.

[Oddeverything]

I am about to post another tl;dr post with all the information we have gathered and some overviews on how it is online malingerers and Munchausen by Internet cases work. It may take an hour or so for that to happen, or maybe I will post part and just keep adding to it or something.

But before I do, I want to address a couple of questions people have about whether or not any of this makes any difference. The answer is no and yes.

No, because people who do this seldom stop. Once one identity is spoiled, they move on to another. People with large chunks of time to spend reading, Google the cases of "Amy Player/Andrew Blake" and "Janna St. James." In both cases, the scammers have been outed publicly many times, have been faced with lawsuits and criminal procedings, and their families are well aware of their behaviors and they are still scamming. In the Amy Player/Andrew Blake cases, a woman was killed by a jealous boyfriend because of the manipulations of the scammer. The scammer himself/herself got shot in the fray. And he/she is still scamming (not using these pronouns to misgender or be unkind - I simply don't know the gender the person assumes any more).

In this case, all we are going to be able to do is to ensure Ruth does not use this identity to scam any longer, or at least make enough information available that it makes it difficult. We will likely never know Ruth's identity and we likely cannot make her stop. But our research can stand on the Internet for others and when Ruth moves on to a new identity, chances are she will make the same mistakes that she made with this one and will be found out. But if we make it impossible for her to scam as Ruth any longer, that more than achieves the goal I had in mind when I mentioned TWoP baby.

[Mustang Sally]

Yay! I am so glad you're back, Oddeverything. Looking forward to your post.

[Oddeverything]

Yay! I am so glad you're back, Oddeverything. Looking forward to your post.

Thanks! I am seldom very busy but the last few days have been hectic. Had I known what this week had in mind for me, I would have waited before I brought up TWoP baby! Best laid plans...

[TheJewAmongUs]

Not to defend the Ruth persona in any way, because as I posted before, I thought the story was fake from the beginning, but...

Isn't there a gap in her narrative between when she left her parents and when she started going to school in California? It is possible she abandoned the retelling her life story before she got to that detail.

Of course, my opinion is that she stopped retelling her story because popping up with current drama got her more attention and/or donations, but it is still possible there was a pregnancy in the timeframe not covered on her blog.

[thoughtful]

Just to ask a question about this Borden family who supposedly helped her? (Sorry to backtrack: been very busy and only just caught up)

Where was she at the time they did, and where did Lizzie Borden, the axe murderess live?

You know :

Lizzie Borden with an axe

gave her father forty whacks.

When she saw what she had done

she gave her mother forty-one.

As someone commented it's an unusual name.

:D Couldn't resist.

Palimpsest wrote:

It is probably more of a hobby than a full-time job and I don't think Pennmommy ever asked for cash. In fact I think "William" suggested donations to legitimate charities. The Atheist in a Minivan was probably still licking his/her wounds after being challenged about the money raised for the window film.

I suspect that in most cases it is less about the money than it is about the attention, although the cash comes in handy. You get to pose as someone with inside knowledge, an expert on the subject, and you are soooooo very brave and strong in the face of fictional adversity! Praise, sympathy, more praise, attention. Supplementary income at best, unless you are very good at it.

I agree that anyone who does this is deeply troubled. It is very sad.

I've always wondered about Munchausen by Internet. Is there a genuine provoking incident which gets the person hooked on the attention from strangers online, or does the person suddenly wake up one morning and decide to make up an elaborate story? Or perhaps either, neither or both.

Here's an interesting article on it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... port-sites

Thanks for that article.

I do realize that a lot of people do things like this for thrills, control, entertainment, etc.

At a gut level, whether done for money or not, it still baffles me, as do many things that I've seen over and over. It seems like so much effort. Like you, I'd love to know how it starts.

Maybe I've been watching true-crime stuff on TV lately, which I don't usually do. Like Munchausen, all of the scams and murders and lives of crime seem like so much more work (with the added risk of having the police and unsavory characters to deal with) than living an honest life.

[ceg045]

Sad that someone would stoop to this, but not surprised. I was always a little skeptical of her story. Her posts never seemed to be about the mundane--some major life event/drama always seemed to be happening, usually something that would elicit a sympathetic response. Mom's high-risk pregnancy. College. New guy. Broken leg. Engagement. Engagement drama. Engagement off. Pregnant sister flees. Cross-country trip. Lesbian couple adopting pregnant sister's baby. Sister returns home. Dad dead.

Long story short, the constant drama had me side-eying her before long and I stayed out of her threads to avoid it.

[thoughtful]

A few people have commented that they feel RR knows enough, uses the lingo well enough, that they think she was, at least, from an ATI family.

I haven't followed her that closely, but it strikes me that someone could do something like this with just some good research, so those comments made me curious.

If you are of that opinion, can you post some details? What is there about her story and the way she writes that makes you think that?

[missbrooklyn]

A momentary diversion, if I may...will someone please explain "sock" and "sock puppet" ? I didn't see it in the SOTDRT glossay. Many thanks!

edited by the Deparment of Redundancy Department

[Mustang Sally]

A momentary diversion, if I may...will someone please explain "sock" and "sock puppet" please? I didn't see it in the SOTDRT glossay. Many thanks!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29

[tinkerbellkmc]

Could someone shed a little more light onto the failed book deal that was mentioned in the first thread?

[Palimpsest]

A momentary diversion, if I may...will someone please explain "sock" and "sock puppet" ? I didn't see it in the SOTDRT glossay. Many thanks!

edited by the Deparment of Redundancy Department

Multiple IDs = socks, sock puppetry on one or more sites.

Not always easy to detect, I gather. IPs can give clues, but not always.

I'm, sadly, most familiar with Atheist in a Minivan/Possummomma. IMO she/he/it concocted multiple personalities to support her/his/its various scams. Friends, children, acquaintances had identities who posted to support the tales . . . I opted out early.

I was a late-comer to the Atheist in a Minivan/PossumMomma/Pennmommy connection. That concerned the Gosselin fiasco.

I'm still not convinced that RR = PossumMomma. The writing styles are not similar enough. But I could be wrong.

[flyawaystray]

Yeah, actually, that's kind of what I meant. I think she's more like a sociopath who manipulates people for the money than someone who is purely desperate for attention and makes their kid/themselves sick to get it, kwim? And I think she actually believes she's a good person and doing the right thing and above the world. That's a little different from a hoaxer who knows they are lying and understands that it's wrong. I don't know how to explain it exactly, but after watching several of these cases happen, I just feel like she doesn't fit neatly into the same category as, say, the Catfish lady from the original movie. She's not pathetic and sad, she's devious and awful, yet strangely amoral.

Ahhh, I get what you mean now. Sometimes I am really dense, particularly on the internet. It's true she doesn't make herself sick for attention. I feel so bad for her kids, though. They are going to be so screwed when Jen eventually dies because any money Jen has will go to paying off debt, the kids will probably have nothing.