Maxwell help?

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I finally told my fundie friend that the Maxwells were coming to Idaho, where she lives, because I wanted to see if she knew of them. She didn't. I asserted a bunch of things about them and she wants me to link the articles because she does not believe them. She wants proof they dont believe in fun (I found the Maxwell corners where they mention the little league, but where is that original one where he specifically says fun is not ok?) and the parts about Dad having to work at home instead of having a regular job, and not leaving the house and having friends. Does anyone have any links, like the Maxwell greatest hits? I can't search their blog or here because of such general terms. TIA

 

PS My friend said I am just jaded! Obviously because I am divorced and I wish I could have a decent christian home life.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I finally told my fundie friend that the Maxwells were coming to Idaho, where she lives, because I wanted to see if she knew of them. She didn't. I asserted a bunch of things about them and she wants me to link the articles because she does not believe them. She wants proof they dont believe in fun (I found the Maxwell corners where they mention the little league, but where is that original one where he specifically says fun is not ok?) and the parts about Dad having to work at home instead of having a regular job, and not leaving the house and having friends. Does anyone have any links, like the Maxwell greatest hits? I can't search their blog or here because of such general terms. TIA

PS My friend said I am just jaded! Obviously because I am divorced and I wish I could have a decent christian home life.

I've typed a bunch of quotes from their main book "Keeping Our Children's Hearts" as responses to various threads over some time now - because the best criticism of all things Maxwell is to just expose their own actual words, verbatim.

I need to go run some errands now this evening but I can try to search for my old posts (by searching on the exact text of quotes) in a bit - alternatively I can type some in again.

I figure the bits I've typed in are fair use, after all I am explicitly criticizing those parts...

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Found one quick one though - a thread I posted in, here: http://freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic. ... &start=120

In there he says "For our family, we have come to realize that friends aren't a necessary or beneficial part of raising children" (I just now searched on "friends aren't a necessary" here on FJ to pull that up). I posted that quote plus it seems a few others in that thread, also got some other thread hits, you might start there.

There's a whole chapter on sheltering in that book, and I suspect they preach a lot of that book at their conferences (I've not been to one but I've seen some slides in the background of their pics of shows).

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Thanks!

Its really funny to search for "fun" at the Maxwell blog. Can't find them saying too much, its mainly comments like "Hope you have a lot of fun!" and I think many of them are there to mock them!

[sparkles]

IIRC, I don't think they've ever actually said "We don't believe in fun" in exactly those words, but when you look through their Corners, books and blog posts you definitely come away with that impression. Maxwell fun is not like normal fun. For the Maxwells, everything must have a purpose, that being Jesus. Pleasing Jesus, worshiping Jesus, living like Jesus, thinking about Jesus, Jesus Jesus Jesus. So anything that doesn't have the end result of glorifying Jesus just doesn't cut it.

As GVC mentioned, Keeping Our Children's Hearts (bought it USED for cheap!) is the go-to for Maxwell Anti-Fun philosophy. It's pretty much a laundry list of "evil" influences that have been banished. Chapters 11 and 12 are especially telling. Television: The Beast. Toys. All with a purpose. Nothing that will give them "wrong appetites." Reading materials. Highly censored. Non-family friends. Are you kidding? Swimming. IMMODEST! Sports. Ungodly influences and the necessity for being under the authority of someone (the coach) who is not the father. Plus, competition is BAD.

From the Sports Part 3 Corner

I personally would avoid shooting baskets or playing football with my children. Why? Because those sports are addictive, as evidenced in many men's lives. I wouldn't want to cast a potential stumbling block in the path of my children. Some dads may have the maturity to limit it to just time with the boys, but children often won't. While Dad may control it in moderation and not be tempted to tune into "the big game," children won't have that same level of self discipline. Their exposure to sports during times together "shooting hoops" is likely going to give them an appetite for watching the pros and learning from them. I have observed in some families how this "innocent" use of time became a major appetite in their sons' lives. So for us, I would rather avoid it.

What about many other family pastimes such as board games? There are a lot of board games that seem to really foster a spirit of competition. For us we would prefer to avoid those. However, there are some we have found that enhance thinking skills, are educational, or Bible related, where someone "winning" just brings closure. Then the goal is mostly to learn in the process of spending time together.

What about spelling and geography academic competitions? To me they are just another way of taking a test to determine who scores the highest, unless some form of "hard-hitting" violence breaks out :-). I seriously doubt that children would find spelling bees to be addictive, so activities of that nature would be of little concern.

It goes on and on. Even approved pastimes like music must have a godly purpose and must be highly censored (whiting out the lyrics to Row Row Row Your Boat anyone?). Everything is make-work, study, prayer, more prayer, more make-work, more prayer. Jesus Jesus Jesus.

So when you put it all together, it really does add up to no fun simply for the purpose of having fun. And you end up with a family that thinks pouring concrete together is the stuff of which childhood memories are made.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Wow, have they EVER learned to swim??

[Jana814]

Oh my G-d I never really knew the sports thing till now!! Steve is horrible it bothers me even more that people buy into his crap.

[Miggy]

Just when I think I have got the Maxwell's worked out...

No sport? Big deal. My nephews and nieces aren't allowed to play sport or learn music instruments in their version of fundydom. I don't like it but I see the isolation and indoctrination as far worse problems.

However, not even allowed to shoot hoops with Dad in the backyard? It might distract them from God? Maxwell parents obviously haven't done a good job of training their offspring if they can be made atheist by a backyard soccer game or by throwing a ball around. The level of boredom in that house must be incredible.

[Mary C Doates]

Thanks!

Its really funny to search for "fun" at the Maxwell blog. Can't find them saying too much, its mainly comments like "Hope you have a lot of fun!" and I think many of them are there to mock them!

That's because they aren't even allowed to utter the word "fun", much less actually experience it.

Edited to add: I'm a Vigourous Leg-Humper now! Must go have a celebratory drink.

[yetanothermeg]

This is from a corner where Steve answers the question: Do Maxwells have fun? He says they do, but then he says,

"Do those professing faith in Christ deserve entertainment? The world has deceived believers into thinking that fun is an acceptable use of time, something to be sought after and deserved for hard work. Sadly, every minute that is wasted on fun, is time stolen from something profitable and the duty to which we are called. "

He also lists all the "fun" they have which includes reading their bibles alone, reading their bibles together, talking about what they read in their bibles, talking about the nursing home church and going to the nursing home church. Oh, and they ride bikes sometimes. But not for fun, oh no, purely for exercise.

http://www.titus2.com/corners/dads-corn ... art-9.html

[yetanothermeg]

Oh and here is his "Worldly Friends Series". He says you shouldn't even let your kids run around with other children after church because bad "fruits" will prevail. You should always have your children with you so you can watch them ALL THE TIME.

titus2.com/corners/dads-corner/worldly-friends/part-1.html

Edited to break link - lilith

[RachelB]

What's Steve's (theological / philosophical / totally arbitrary) objection to "Row, Row, Row Your Boat"? Is it the "merrily" part, because we're not supposed to be happy? Or the life being "but a dream" part? I thought he'd totally be into a song about how earthly life is an illusion-- that we're supposed to focus on what comes next. Is he interpreting it to mean that "because life is essentially unreal, we might as well just party"? Because there are other ways of interpreting it.

[Bethella]

Here's the post on the Maxwells from the SOTDRT. It doesn't have all the supporting citations, but it's quite thorough.

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=15254

[gardenvarietycitizen]

What's Steve's (theological / philosophical / totally arbitrary) objection to "Row, Row, Row Your Boat"? Is it the "merrily" part, because we're not supposed to be happy? Or the life being "but a dream" part? I thought he'd totally be into a song about how earthly life is an illusion-- that we're supposed to focus on what comes next. Is he interpreting it to mean that "because life is essentially unreal, we might as well just party"? Because there are other ways of interpreting it.

Mainly it seems his objection is just that it's not a religious song.

He seems to think that there is a limited amount of space in a head, so ideally you don't want to let secular memes even enter, lest they waste space that can be used for something more productive.

So if you're going to get some earworm, it should be a hymn, rather than "row row row your boat."

[mystikchick17]

I recently posted a quote from an old corner of Terri's where she explicitly says there's nothing to be gained by letting your kids have friends outside the family.

With our older three children, we discovered the damage that friends did to sibling relationships. When the children played with their friends, they were unkind to their siblings, and they came to prefer their friends to their siblings. There were hurtful words and actions from one sibling to another because of the desire to spend exclusive time with the friend. Steve and I knew that the lifelong relationships were the sibling relationships, and those were the ones we chose to protect. We did that by limiting individual friends and moving to family friends where the children could all play together in the setting of two families spending time together.

from this corner: titus2.com/corners/moms-corner/siblings-good-and-bad/part-4.html

[allyisyourpally5]

Here's another Corner....the deception series - this one talks about fun:

http://www.titus2.com/corners/dads-corn ... art-8.html

[johnhugh]

Wow, have they EVER learned to swim??

I seem to recall that Stevie took the boys to a neighbours pool, and to avoid any potential brothers and sisters lusting at each others bodies :roll: Teri took the girls at a different time. It was purely for water safety reasons and no mention of whether swimming frumpers were worn.

So if sports are an idol, why is it OK for the yearly art lesson, when the godly couple visits?

[fundiefan]

Putting it all together just makes it so painful to imagine. Steve is an insecure little boy who is ruining the lives of his family in order to validate himself.

As for lifelong friends, it's clear he's never had a good or true friend. I am 46 years old and am still friends with many people I've known since I was 6. Two of whom (men, no less) I met in first grade; we went through all of the evil public school together and are still friends. Their wives are my friends too. I am still friends with many people I met in high school - more than 30 years ago.

Yet, even with these lifelong friends, I am still friends with my siblings. Not best friends, and we have our issues like any normal family does, but we are still siblings. We're still friends. We are still family.

Friends enrich life, they don't ruin it. The only thing worse than fucked up control is backwards fucked up control.

[Jana814]

Putting it all together just makes it so painful to imagine. Steve is an insecure little boy who is ruining the lives of his family in order to validate himself

I've always felt that way about Steven Maxwell.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I seem to recall that Stevie took the boys to a neighbours pool, and to avoid any potential brothers and sisters lusting at each others bodies :roll: Teri took the girls at a different time. It was purely for water safety reasons and no mention of whether swimming frumpers were worn.

So if sports are an idol, why is it OK for the yearly art lesson, when the godly couple visits?

It was okay because it was "purely for water safety reasons."

Steve-O is big into exercise. They walk every morning, they do push-up challenges, they go hiking. They've made a post about Abigail (the seven year old niece) getting a bicycle and said she uses it for exercise.

They make a big distinction between this "exercise" and any sort of sport. A sport would have competition and rules, it would involve games.

The family doesn't have health insurance, they belong to Samaritan Ministries. Nathan (oldest son) talks about his views on health a bit in an article about their use of Samaritan Ministries here: www.khi.org/news/2011/may/23/faith-based-sharing-plans-help-many-kansans-cover/

All this exercise business is part of their personal responsibility to stay healthy.

Additionally the hiking is often portrayed as worship, they go out to see God's glory, etc. During their walks, they meditate or think about Godly topics or have Godly conversations.

(I'll admit the last one feels familiar to me - I also like to walk, it gets in some exercise but I too like to "double use the time," only I'm listening to news and educational podcasts, heh)

[treemom]

They kayak so I hope to god they know how to swim

[Jana814]

They kayak so I hope to god they know how to swim

That's right! I remember pictures of them doing that!

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

If they believe competition is bad, they should certainly not be capitalists. As it is, they don't even want people putting MOTH in the library because THEFT.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

So after reviewing my links my fundie friend, who realized she had heard of them because someone gave her one of their planners or something, decided that, although they make a lot of good points (for example she is also raising up daughters to be homemakers), they are just too legalistic for her. They're too caught up in their personal convictions that they are missing the bigger picture. So basically she is not a fan.

Thanks for the help!

Can not believe the boys and girls couldn't even learn to swim together. I wonder what they wore?? I doubt they would buy modest swimwear just for the one activity.

[johnhugh]

Can not believe the boys and girls couldn't even learn to swim together. I wonder what they wore?? I doubt they would buy modest swimwear just for the one activity.

It makes you wonder if even siblings of the same sex are allowed by Stevie to see each other in a semi naked state.

Swimming in the sea and public swimming pools would be off limits due to others defrauding them. Has a Maxwell child even been on a beach? Either Nate or Chris did a post about working out and advised the sheep to do it at home due to 'rock' music and defrauding clothes. My gym must have over 20 BEASTS on the wall so another no no.