Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes.

[Drina Adams]

Right now in Ireland there's a scandal about creche care for very young children (eg aged under 3 years) and the usual hysteria has ensued. One rallying call is for CCTV in creches which parents can access online so that mum and dad can see at all times what their children are up to. Never mind the myriad privacy issues this raises and the fact the system would be open to abuse if passwords/usernames were shared, it doesn't seem to have occurred to most of the hysterical parents posting on bulletin boards that most abuse/neglect/ill treatment is done by family members, close relatives or people well known to the child. The whole 'stranger danger' myth really needs to be challenged.

[debrand]

Now I want to move to the UK or some northern European country so badly that it hurts. :)

In NC it can get very, very hot so during the summer it would not be safe to leave a baby outside for a long time. Honestly, the combination of heat and humidity makes it feel like someone threw a burning hot, wet blanket on everyone.

However, even on cool days, people would judge me if I left my baby on the porch. I've had a couple of incidents when people blessed me out because I refused to dress my infants in a way that I would find uncomfortable. That meant, if I felt a light jacket was fine for me, I didn't over dress them in a coat.

I also have a friend who has complained often that a former neighbor let her two toddlers run outside naked. Normally, people agree with her about how terrible naked babies are. :evil-eye: Because I grew up with Coppertone ads and seeing some of my friends' baby siblings playing in the family pool naked, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. All these complaining women are my age so they must have seen naked toddlers running around outside, yet for some reason it makes parents evil to let their kids run naked now. :shrug:

[Flossie]

I also have a friend who has complained often that a former neighbor let her two toddlers run outside naked. Normally, people agree with her about how terrible naked babies are. :evil-eye: Because I grew up with Coppertone ads and seeing some of my friends' baby siblings playing in the family pool naked, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. All these complaining women are my age so they must have seen naked toddlers running around outside, yet for some reason it makes parents evil to let their kids run naked now. :shrug:

Your friend would have hated me. My youngest figured out early how to undress herself and until she was four I couldn't keep her clothes on her. For a time I was doing daycare in my home, and once my kid got naked, pretty soon they were all as naked as they could manage. Luckily, all the other kids parents thought it was funny to arrive to find me chasing down naked toddlers and trying to dress them on the fly. If this happened when we were outside in the yard, the neighbors would laugh, and say how adorable all the little kids were.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

[Maggie Mae]

I don't really understand what happened in the US. Everyone complains about the "nanny state," yet we are constantly all up in each other's grill about how to raise each other's children. Everyone is so paranoid all the time.

I'm sure if we managed to get something like this in the US, even with the outcry of "WHO IS PAYING FOR THIS" and "It's the PARENTS responsibility to pay for BABY STUFF" and "WHY SHOULD I PAY FOR SOME WELFARE MOM TO HAVE CLOTHES FOR HER KIDS, She's the one who got pregnant," and "it's a good idea, but can we privatize it?" there would be all sorts of issues. We wouldn't have just a cardboard box. It would be a cardboard box, covered in petroleum product, plastered with logos, made to be flame retardant, comes with a five point harness and a protective sunshade and a warning logo that it is NOT A TOY. Then there would be the bottles, also labeled with logo of whoever happened to be lobbying congress that day, and the clothes would be cheaply made from China in a factory owned by Mitt Romney or some other powerful person. It would be just another way for rich people to get more money and exploit and brand.

If we had started this in the 50s, it would have came with free cigarettes and a warning that the cigarettes are the parents, not the infant.

[OkToBeTakei]

I don't really understand what happened in the US. Everyone complains about the "nanny state," yet we are constantly all up in each other's grill about how to raise each other's children. Everyone is so paranoid all the time.

I'm sure if we managed to get something like this in the US, even with the outcry of "WHO IS PAYING FOR THIS" and "It's the PARENTS responsibility to pay for BABY STUFF" and "WHY SHOULD I PAY FOR SOME WELFARE MOM TO HAVE CLOTHES FOR HER KIDS, She's the one who got pregnant," and "it's a good idea, but can we privatize it?" there would be all sorts of issues. We wouldn't have just a cardboard box. It would be a cardboard box, covered in petroleum product, plastered with logos, made to be flame retardant, comes with a five point harness and a protective sunshade and a warning logo that it is NOT A TOY. Then there would be the bottles, also labeled with logo of whoever happened to be lobbying congress that day, and the clothes would be cheaply made from China in a factory owned by Mitt Romney or some other powerful person. It would be just another way for rich people to get more money and exploit and brand.

If we had started this in the 50s, it would have came with free cigarettes and a warning that the cigarettes are the parents, not the infant.

How depressing :(

[fundiefun]

At first I was like what on earth, but after seeing photos I don't see it any different than a cradle and the design on the inside of them are cute.

[precious_one]

My mom put my brother in a dresser drawer to sleep as a newborn. She sat the drawer on top of the dresser.

[formergothardite]

Now I want to move to the UK or some northern European country so badly that it hurts. :)

In NC it can get very, very hot so during the summer it would not be safe to leave a baby outside for a long time. Honestly, the combination of heat and humidity makes it feel like someone threw a burning hot, wet blanket on everyone.

However, even on cool days, people would judge me if I left my baby on the porch. I've had a couple of incidents when people blessed me out because I refused to dress my infants in a way that I would find uncomfortable. That meant, if I felt a light jacket was fine for me, I didn't over dress them in a coat.

I also have a friend who has complained often that a former neighbor let her two toddlers run outside naked. Normally, people agree with her about how terrible naked babies are. :evil-eye: Because I grew up with Coppertone ads and seeing some of my friends' baby siblings playing in the family pool naked, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. All these complaining women are my age so they must have seen naked toddlers running around outside, yet for some reason it makes parents evil to let their kids run naked now. :shrug:

Yeah, the heat and humidity is awful here. But even if it wasn't hot and humid people would be all upset about the idea of a baby being allowed to nap outdoors while the mom watched from indoors. I have an acquaintance who was horrified that I let my 8 year old play outside in our fenced yard by herself. I go glance out the window every 15 min or so to make sure everything is okay, but I really doubt anything horrible is going to happen.

[Feberin]

I let my three year old play in our fenced in little yard today all by himself. The irony is that since I don't live in a very nice area (plenty of crime and such) nobody really cared. If I had done so in one of the very upper middle class areas then I'm sure the police would have been called. I did watch him from the window and while we have a lot of crime in my area it's mostly people stealing things and selling drugs. And it's really quiet during the day around here.

I feel like many Americans always think about things in the worst possible scenarios sort of way. Like the cantaloupe story up above. I really like a lot of the ideas of the free range kids movement but am kind of sad that letting your kids out of your sight for five minutes requires a movement.

[LadyBlue]

Back in the early '70s in Canada, my mom would pop me in a pram on the balcony all bundled up in the cold. To this day, I always sleep better in a super cold room with a big soft blanket. It wasn't a big deal and as I'm told, lots of people did it. 8-)

Early/mid 70's in Calgary. My mom used to stick me on the apartment balcony in the pram bundled up for naps all winter long. Not sure if she did it in the summer or not. I think there might even be at least one picture in the albums at her place

[Letgo]

I think Dr. Spock recommended that babies have a couple hours outside every day, unless it was below zero-or something similar. Most American mothers would probably never dream of putting a baby outside in the winter, though.

I think those cardboard boxes are a great idea. I have always wondered about why cribs have slats or spindles or whatever they are called. My babies used to get their arms stuck out the side of the crib even though we had bumper pads. (I think now bumper pads may not be used because of the danger of suffocation, but I'm not sure.) I have long thought that solid sided cribs make much more sense. The only drawback is not being able to see the baby. I did enjoy watching my babies play in their cribs when they didn't know I was there.

[dawbs]

I think Dr. Spock recommended that babies have a couple hours outside every day, unless it was below zero-or something similar. Most American mothers would probably never dream of putting a baby outside in the winter, though.

I think those cardboard boxes are a great idea. I have always wondered about why cribs have slats or spindles or whatever they are called. My babies used to get their arms stuck out the side of the crib even though we had bumper pads. (I think now bumper pads may not be used because of the danger of suffocation, but I'm not sure.) I have long thought that solid sided cribs make much more sense. The only drawback is not being able to see the baby. I did enjoy watching my babies play in their cribs when they didn't know I was there.

There's a school of thought that correlates airflow around a baby w/ a reduced risk of SIDS--I think that's a lot of the logic behind crib slats.

(I think it's *mostly* been debunked, bu I"m not at all sure, SIDS research seems to change faster than I can read up on it)

(and yeah, they don't like bumpers any more--especially now that the slats are placed so kids don't get their heads stuck in between 'em. If you must use a bumper, you're supposed to go w/ the breathable mesh ones. There's suffocation danger before a kid is old enough to move and after old enough to climb, there's the risk of a kid using it to climb out of the crib and falling on her head. Between those 2 windows, there was a short 2 months or so we used our bumpers ;) . But my child is freakishly adverse to moving in her sleep so she never got an arm stuck. I swear, between 8 pm and 6 am, she doesn't move--uless she wakes up screaming for unrelated reasons)

[DarkAnts]

Some states have laws about leaving kids alone in a car. A mother of two in a nearby town was cited for child endangerment when picking up her older child from daycare with their baby in the car. It was in the midst of a heavy rain and rather than getting the baby out of the car seat/hauling the infant seat in with her in the rain, she parked right in front of the day care center with the baby in the car, the air conditioning ON, and the doors locked. She was in the center for 5 minutes with the car in view the entire time - the daycare workers called the police when they didn't see the mother carrying the baby in the infant seat into the center with her.

In my state, knowingly leaving a child under the age of 12 in a public place or motor vehicle for a period of time that "presents a substantial risk to the child's health or safety" (which is determined by the police or DCF) is a misdemeanor, and doing so between 8 PM - 6 AM is a felony.

Putting a baby on the porch in a stroller for a nap would not be in a public place but there are a LOT of sanctimonious nosy types who would call DCF if you did so.

The only time I get nervous about kids being left in cars is when its extremely hot outside. Cars will quickly heat up if you dont have the AC running. They even heat up if you have all of the windows open and the trunk open. But, I live in the desert where it gets above 90 on a regular basis in the summer.

[OkToBeTakei]

I would never leave my child never mind as a baby in a car for any reason. How strange. I never took her when fuelling my car. Too funny when you think I was fine with her getting her air in the garden :lol:

What is so wrong with letting your child play in their own garden by themselves? I seriously do not get this.

[DarkAnts]

I would never leave my child never mind as a baby in a car for any reason. How strange. I never took her when fuelling my car. Too funny when you think I was fine with her getting her air in the garden :lol:

What is so wrong with letting your child play in their own garden by themselves? I seriously do not get this.

Some people are afraid that a child will get kidnaped, hurt or abducted by aliens. Like I said, America is a fear based culture.

I dont think its a problem with allowing your child to nap or play in the garden. The child just need to have a safe space, and parents need to keep an eye on them.

[Arete]

I think some of it is fear, and some of it is upper middle class parents feeling superior for having their kid in sight or in an activity every waking minute. The Parent Wars.

[Cannelle]

I'm really impressed that the boxes also contained condoms and lube. Even if we got past the "ZOMG SOCIALISM HOORS SHOULD PAY FOR THEIR OWN BABIES!!!1!1!!!" outcry that would immediately happen were the box to be implemented in the US, condoms would never be included because A., MOTHERS should not be having any of the sex *gasp*, and B., if they do have any of the sex, they should be having all of the baybeez that come along with it. And lube? Please. We're a country that can't discuss female genitalia without resorting to euphemisms, even in- maybe especially in- the highest levels of government. There's no way taxpayers are going to pay for anything that makes sex comfortable for women, because women (and mothers! *gasp*) shouldn't be having sex in the first place, and if they do, they should be paying for it themselves!

What a beautiful thing Finland has. I really wish America could gets its collective head out of its overstuffed butthole and start realizing that we're all in this together.

[Mami2four]

I read about this the other day and thought it was fantastic, the items look like they are worth so much more than the cash grant. I wish the Welsh Assembly would pick up on the idea.

Things have changed a bit over the last few years with more people moving into the valley (any brits familiar with the tv show a league of gentlemen? thats what its like here lol) but its still not unusual to see babies and toddlers napping in prams on the pavements outside front doors (no front gardens) or left outside our small shops that prams wouldn't fit in. I think nothing of leaving the kids (not as babies) in the car just for 5 mins as even our hot days are not all that hot and there is usually a breeze so all the windows get left open. it is usually raining mind!

It's also not unusual to have half or even fully naked toddlers running up and down my street in any given weather and splashing in tiny paddling pools, again on the pavement outside the house on our rare warm days, as our streets are cut into the sides of the mountains so our back gardens are very steep.

[zcccrv]

I don't really understand what happened in the US. Everyone complains about the "nanny state," yet we are constantly all up in each other's grill about how to raise each other's children. Everyone is so paranoid all the time.

I'm sure if we managed to get something like this in the US, even with the outcry of "WHO IS PAYING FOR THIS" and "It's the PARENTS responsibility to pay for BABY STUFF" and "WHY SHOULD I PAY FOR SOME WELFARE MOM TO HAVE CLOTHES FOR HER KIDS, She's the one who got pregnant," and "it's a good idea, but can we privatize it?" there would be all sorts of issues. We wouldn't have just a cardboard box. It would be a cardboard box, covered in petroleum product, plastered with logos, made to be flame retardant, comes with a five point harness and a protective sunshade and a warning logo that it is NOT A TOY. Then there would be the bottles, also labeled with logo of whoever happened to be lobbying congress that day, and the clothes would be cheaply made from China in a factory owned by Mitt Romney or some other powerful person. It would be just another way for rich people to get more money and exploit and brand.

If we had started this in the 50s, it would have came with free cigarettes and a warning that the cigarettes are the parents, not the infant.

Just my personal US-outsider opinion. I think American parents have greater freedom in their parental choices which, especially coupled with very culturally diverse environment, results in greater responsibility. Which can be a scary thing and can result in hypersensitivity and defensiveness about your kids and kids in general. Those of us who live in evil socialist countries share our responsibility with government and society in general which makes it a bit less severe.

It's a generalization but I did it anyway.

[Sumeri]

When my daughter was about 6 months old we visited some friends of mine - a couple where the wife is Scandinavian and the husband is German. The whole time we were there the Scandinavian wife kept taking daughter's clothes off and making her more comfortable in her undershirt on a blanket, or wanting to take her outside, and the German husband kept putting layers and hats back on her and turning the heat up because we were "going to give that baby pneumonia!" :lol:

I have no idea if either thing is indicative of their homelands, but it really tickled me.

[Sumeri]

Oh, and when I was a baby my "crib" was a dresser drawer.

[Irishy]

Right now my two youngest are bouncing on the trampoline naked except for sunblock. I may put knickers on them later for dinner, I may not.

[OkToBeTakei]

Right now my two youngest are bouncing on the trampoline naked except for sunblock. I may put knickers on them later for dinner, I may not.

:lol: Seems we have the same weather! It is HOT!!!

Mine is currently screaming her way around the communal park with all the neighbours kids with Supershooters! There is about 15 of them. Time for ice lollies methink :D

(Oh there are no parents helicoptoring (I mean supervising :P)

[Hane]

As much as I love the Finnish layette box, it wouldn't have worked as a bed for my daughter. When I put her into her bassinet (like this one), even when she was tiny she would fuss because she couldn't see what was going on. I buckled her into her baby seat and put it into the bassinet, so she was safe and propped up and could see what was happening in the world.

[OkToBeTakei]

As much as I love the Finnish layette box, it wouldn't have worked as a bed for my daughter. When I put her into her bassinet (like this one), even when she was tiny she would fuss because she couldn't see what was going on. I buckled her into her baby seat and put it into the bassinet, so she was safe and propped up and could see what was happening in the world.

Aww, curious babies! I had one like that. I remember there was a a big thing about forward/rear facing prams. The crunchy mob felt it was absolutely crucial that baby face Mum for development and bonding :roll:

I had to turn mine forward facing at 6 months, she spent her whole time trying to peer at where she was going, if it wasn't for the good restraint system she would have been hanging out and knocked out on a lamp-post or something similar :lol: