Looks Like Some Folks Are Rethinking Maxwell-style Isolation

[lilith]

Are you unfamiliar with the fundie ideology? A gay child would be pressured to stay in closet and go through the motions of hetero marriage anyway.

Then he'll marry a sweet simple girl like Priscilla, be desperate enough for male touch to mud wrestle with Josh Duggar, and turn in frustration to a life of crime and pecan thievery. Or he'll dress up and go on manly romps with Dougie. The fundie community provides some activities for its closeted gay men.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

In the comments there is a ringing endorsement for this lifestyle:

:?

Oh man, that's ripe for interpretation. So supposing her two non negotiables are 1) must have a job so he can support her as a SAHM with multiple kids and 2) must commit to staying in the area so she can be near her family, then what are the things she wanted but didn't get? Attractiveness? Kindness? Intelligence? Own teeth?

[YPestis]

I'm not surprised by the conumndrum that fundies are finding themselves in with the unmarried SAHDs. The issue here is that they are trying to recreate a 19th century way of life within the confines of the 21st century. The fundies' idea of keeping their daughters at home doesn't work well in a society which requires face to face interactions in mixed gender environments as preclude to marriage. Even fundie homeschooled gentlemen would be hard pressed to propose to those closet maidens before speaking with them first. Therefore, the process of keeping daughters hidden away can only result in old spinisters.

If the current fundie culture continues, it will need to set up their own process for courting. Perhaps a matchmaker of some kind would be required. Semi-arranged relationships will probably be the preferred route. An intermediary could be enlisted by the family to find prospective spouses. The young couple would meet and have chaperoned visits. After a few months of these visits, perhaps a proposal will result. This is the ritual followed by many cultures throughout history. I can see fundies eventually adopting this type of practice as well.

[Melissa1977]

I'm not surprised by the conumndrum that fundies are finding themselves in with the unmarried SAHDs. The issue here is that they are trying to recreate a 19th century way of life within the confines of the 21st century. The fundies' idea of keeping their daughters at home doesn't work well in a society which requires face to face interactions in mixed gender environments as preclude to marriage. Even fundie homeschooled gentlemen would be hard pressed to propose to those closet maidens before speaking with them first. Therefore, the process of keeping daughters hidden away can only result in old spinisters.

If the current fundie culture continues, it will need to set up their own process for courting. Perhaps a matchmaker of some kind would be required. Semi-arranged relationships will probably be the preferred route. An intermediary could be enlisted by the family to find prospective spouses. The young couple would meet and have chaperoned visits. After a few months of these visits, perhaps a proposal will result. This is the ritual followed by many cultures throughout history. I can see fundies eventually adopting this type of practice as well.

My grandmother told me about some of her friends who had semi-arranged marriages and all them became frustrated and didn't have a nice marriage. They were semi-arranged not because a cultural tradition but because their families were very controlling. I'm not sure if arranged marriages can work in some cultures, but the truth is that you can't be romantic at all, you have to be very cerebral to make this marriage work.

I think fundie girls are very inmature and probably expect a wonderful life that fundie boys cannot give them. Men are expected to be leaders but they had been raised beaten to obedience, so they didn't learn how to lead, but just how to abuse. I'm sure some fundie mariages work and couples are happy, but if they start to arrenge marriages, they will finish facing a lot of divorces or children leaving fundieland.

[Florenz]

My grandfather told me once that his parents tried to set him up with the daughter of a rich farmers family.

They locked him (he was around 17) and the girl (around 16) in a room and then invited friends so the whole village would know that those two had been alone in a bedroom.

(then they would have to marry because otherwise both families would lose their honor)

My grandfather broke his arm when he jumped out of the window, but to this day he says it was definitely worth it.

For him, life after that was totaly fine. But the girl had lost her honor anyway and never married. She became her parents care taker and maid. (what else could she have done without any kind of education and knowledge of the world outside her village)

Those SAHD are a lost generation. Its not fair. :angry-banghead:

[TinyDancer87]

Amy Doeun June 4, 2013

As a mom of both sons and daughters I am trying hard to hold up marriage as the goal. Our oldest boy is 8 and he is already talking about finding a wife and we are reminding him of the preparations he needs to make. My husband’s culture (Cambodian) also encourages arranged marriages. While my husband opted for a love match, marriage was still his goal and I am thankful for that. His younger brother 25 at the time just had an arranged marriage. The girl’s older sister arranged it. My husband’s older sister had an arranged marriage and many in the family have continued the tradition. We are open to this as an option.Reply

JenniferR June 4, 2013

We are learning that this is something that is becoming of interest to many Christians! Thanks for sharing Amy!

Oh how fundamentalism is evolving! First it's "Oh look how special we are because we court our future spouses! As ordained by God Himself!!" and when that doesn't work they change their tune: "God has found us a spouse for our daughter. So in agreement by the parents, they are to marry on XYZ date!!" Arranged marriages will be their new courting.

And isn't funny that Jennifer just talked about socializing their daughters more for marriage, but says that arranged marriages are also an option? They are polar opposites!

Ugh, the logic of these people.

[copper]

Read the comments again---and I have to say that I can't think of a more illuminating post to come out of fundiedom in recent history. The comments are so revealing--everyone thinks there is a problem (I love the ones where they are all FINALLY! SOMEONE IS TALKING ABOUT THIS!), but there is no consensus. Some familes are going to see these older daughters sitting around with nothing happening and react by allowing more socializaion--others will move to arranged marriages. Either the next generation will fall apart because they can't find a way to get married, or the ones who take the more liberal route by allowing socialization are going to be looked down upon by the ones who stay strict. If it all continues going forward, it will not be without multiple rifts in the group.

The other revealing aspect of the comments is the questioning of the quiverfull viewpoint. (Isn't it also God's plan if there are only 3 children?) When quiverfull is marketed to the fundie-light crowd, the Have A Ton Of Children So We Can Create A Christian Population So Jesus Will Come Back and Rule The Kingdom We Build On Earth is not the main messaging used in every circumstance. It's all about submitting to God's control and allowing His blessing. Once there's buy-in on that, perhaps there's discussion of God's warriors if the family becomes very involved, or goes and seeks out information from the movement leaders. But many people's beliefs simply stop at allowing God to control that process. It's not about Christian warriors to them--in fact, a lot of these people may not believe the premillenialist theology that is the basis of a recreation of Christ's kingdom on earth.

So, I read the reaction of "Wha? Isn't it God's plan if there's only a few arrows?" as "Wha? This is all really about Christian warriors, not trusting God?" Maybe this "re-thinking" will allow a few people to see the wizard behind the curtain.

[desertvixen]

My grandmother told me about some of her friends who had semi-arranged marriages and all them became frustrated and didn't have a nice marriage. They were semi-arranged not because a cultural tradition but because their families were very controlling. I'm not sure if arranged marriages can work in some cultures, but the truth is that you can't be romantic at all, you have to be very cerebral to make this marriage work.

It would be one thing if the "arranged" factor of the marriages was upfront, but there seems to be a real expectation that they will have that "love at first sight that lasts forever" and that's not realistic.

[oil]

So, I read the reaction of "Wha? Isn't it God's plan if there's only a few arrows?" as "Wha? This is all really about Christian warriors, not trusting God?" Maybe this "re-thinking" will allow a few people to see the wizard behind the curtain.

I had to do reading of your post 4 times to being able to understand it because of my english, but wow yes, this making so much sense. Very interesting. I didnt have a full understanding of their believes (millenialism etc) but now I do. Thanks.

[Marian the Librarian]

An FJ-er once said here that the most extremely isolationist fundies (I believe it was Stevehovah Maxwell being discussed) genuinely seem to believe that Mr./Miss Perfect Spouse will just one day fall from the sky ("Geronimooooo!!!") and land on the doorstep, ready to embark on The Most Perfect, Godly, They-Think-Just-Like-Us Marriage Of All Time.

It's always reminded me of an old joke (told to me in the flavor of Judaism, but it can apply to any realm of belief):

Meyer, a deeply religious man, finds himself in dire financial trouble. In the temple, he prays earnestly to his God to help him out of his predicament. "God, I'm about to lose my car. Please help me. Let me win the lottery." Lottery night comes, but sadly, Meyer is not the winner.

Things go from bad to worse. Without a car to get to work, Meyer loses his job. Without a job, his mortgage is foreclosed on, and he loses his home. Without a home, his wife leaves him, taking the kids. After each horrible step in the mounting crisis, he pleads with God to let him win the lottery, but he never does.

Finally, broke, hungry, living on the street, he goes to the temple again. "God, please, my life is a wreck. I have no car, no home, no family. Please let me win the lottery just this once so that I can turn my life around. I beseech you."

Suddenly, the temple roof parts, a flash of light rends the sky, and the deep, booming voice of God echoes down from the heavens. "Meyer. Meet me halfway. Buy a ticket."

[rward]

My grandmother told me about some of her friends who had semi-arranged marriages and all them became frustrated and didn't have a nice marriage. They were semi-arranged not because a cultural tradition but because their families were very controlling. I'm not sure if arranged marriages can work in some cultures, but the truth is that you can't be romantic at all, you have to be very cerebral to make this marriage work.

They work fine in cultures where it's the norm. I know some Indians who had arranged marriages and were quite happy. Husband and wife loved one another, worked well together, had children that they adored and lived wonderful lives. They told me that they didn't expect to love the person they married when they married, but that love would grow as they lived their lives together, and it did.

I don't think arranged marriages are at all right, but I won't deny that many people are quite happy in them.

[Lillybee]

Someone could make a small fortune by setting up an ATI matchmaker site along the lines of Christian Mingle or Harmony.com.

[AnnieC 305]

Anyone notice this comment?

Amy XXXXX June 4, 2013

As a mom of both sons and daughters I am trying hard to hold up marriage as the goal. Our oldest boy is 8 and he is already talking about finding a wife and we are reminding him of the preparations he needs to make. My husband’s culture (Cambodian) also encourages arranged marriages. While my husband opted for a love match, marriage was still his goal and I am thankful for that. His younger brother 25 at the time just had an arranged marriage. The girl’s older sister arranged it. My husband’s older sister had an arranged marriage and many in the family have continued the tradition. We are open to this as an option.

JenniferR June 4, 2013

We are learning that this is something that is becoming of interest to many Christians! Thanks for sharing Amy!

Anyone surprised put up a hand.

I now have a Fiddler On The Roof earworm going. :violin:

ETA: OK, someone already caught that. I'm a bit slow today.

[nelliebelle1197]

I am mostly surprised the interracial marriage isn't causing more issues in the quiverworld.

[BornFree]

Getting back to the Maxwell family. Not only are they isolated from contact with "outsiders" but they also isolate themselves in their photos where they are always in a pose. Steve is completely about creating "the right image". So -- I was surprised that on a June 5th entry there was a photo of the babies with Teri UNPOSED in the background! It's the most relaxed, genuine photo I've ever seen of her. I wonder how it got by Steve.