Pope Francis: Heretic or Just Really Swell Guy?

[Effie]

I think it's because of the hierarchy that only small changes will be acceptable. And in reality, the church may soon become accepting of gay people and women may gain equality. But they will never change their stance on abortion. Maybe they'll grudgingly support abortion to save a life one day but they'll never support abortion for all.

I don't think there are any dyed in the wool Roman Catholics posting on FJ. Certainly not OKTB.

OKTB is not responsible for the institution that is the Catholic Church.

I'm really curious about the bolded part. Why is that? I'm not questioning you. I mean, you are probably right. I just wonder why abortion is such a hot-button issue - that it would still be a no-no, even if women gained equality.

[Effie]

Speaking of revolution, I wonder if you could say that Sister Farley has started one. :D She has lots of nun followers and supporters. And she has a P.H.D. She might not get many male followers, but for sure - nuns have defended her, despite reprisals. I like to think of her as a female version of a pope.

[Cran]

Nah, don't overestimate Sister Farley. Her views on homosexuality have been denounced as not being in line with Catholic teaching from the Vatican, so she'll lose a lot of support from many Catholics there, not only in this particular matter, but in general, as many are hesitant to ally themselves with someone who could be a "heretic", and outside of the U.S., she's not very well-known. And she's well above 70, too.

And the Catholic Church has her growth market in non-European/non-US countries, so the influence of the people who stand for a more liberal approach within the Church will lose influence, not gain and can safely be disregarded by the men in power but for an admonishment or two. Do they think in the Vatican the demands of the female religious in the US are completely out of line? Sure. Do they worry about it? Don't think so.

On abortion: For the Catholic Church, the human life begins at conception, meaning as soon as egg and sperm get cosy, the life form has a soul and has to be considered as human in the full sense and must be protected as such. Abortion is therefore wilful murder, which is forbidden by the ten commandments and the law of love given by Christ.

In order to change the view on abortion, the Church would have to break with tradition, which is in itself difficult, and change the teaching on the formation of the human being, which is nearly impossible.

[Full enough quiver]

My family are varying degrees of fundie catholic. I was raised in the church, baptized as an infant, reconciliation, communion, mass every Sunday, etc. I chose not to be confirmed, and consider myself agnostic. (not a fan of organized religion in general, I acknowledge the possible existence of a deity, but generally don't concern myself with him/her). Anyhoo, some of my more conservative relatives have informed me that, because I'm basically a good person, I won't burn in hell. I will, however, be going to purgatory. They seemed pretty unhappy when I said "that's a weight off my mind. When's dinner?" apparently I'm supposed to take my eternal salvation more seriously. Stepdaughter told my cousin "no offense, but that sounds like a load of crap" I will be anxiously awaiting our invite to next years get together :)