"I am the child......"

[formergothardite]

The is from the FB page of the Atheist's Bible Commentary. It is very thought provoking, especially for people who believe the Bible is literally real and that all these things actually happened.

 

https://www.facebook.com/TABCP?hc_location=timeline

 

I am the child who, after the flood swallowed my parents and my siblings, clung to the side of rock as the waves took me and I drowned in fear and terror.

 

I am the mother clutching her newborn trying to run as the force of a spear entering my rib cage throws me forward and sends my child tumbling onto the ground screaming. My last memories are of watching my sweet child scream out for his mother as a sword silenced his voice and then mine.

 

I am the woman that was stoned to death for being raped and not screaming loud enough for help, according to the Law of Moses.

 

I am the child whom David’s God caused to suffer in agony and sickness for seven days and then killed to teach my father a lesson.

 

I am the Amalekite child who watched as my family was slaughtered.

 

I am the Canaanite girl who was carried off into slavery and forced to marry my family’s murderer.

 

I never heard of this thing called mercy. I never received a message of love and kindness. There was no forgiveness for me, no golden rule. If I could wonder, I would ask myself what it might feel like to be chosen by God. To have babies that aren't plucked from their mother’s arms and put to the sword.

 

If I could see the Christians praying to this God, I would stare in disbelief at the sight. I would ask them how they could ever worship such malevolent evil and call it good. With bewilderment I would ask in angered horror how you could ever imagine that you needed the forgiveness of such a monstrous affront to human decency and goodness.

 

My blood cries out from the pages of that Book you read with such devotion. I scream and you do not hear. I cry and you fail to see my tears. I was a person. I was a mother, a father, a son, a daughter, a wife, and husband. I mattered to someone and I loved and was loved. I wanted to live, but your God commanded my death and the death of my children. Now you quote the scriptures that glorify the violence of my death and call it inspirational.

 

If this is what you call love, no one can save you.

 

Of course, when I was still a believer and questioned the violence in the OT I was just told that the NT god is nicer and wouldn't do stuff like that anymore. But in the next breath they would say God never changes.

[debrand]

Thanks for posting that. It is surprising how many atheists stopped believing once they read the Old Testament. Yes, I understand that Christians follow the New Testament but that leads to its own problems. Why did an all knowing, all powerful god allow his people to follow one way of life-and endorse things like slavery and rape-to suddenly change the rules a few centuries later? Why could he make such nit picky laws about not mixing fiber but not include that child rape or slavery was wrong? Why didn't he make his holy book a little less difficult to interpret?

I do believe that most Christians are decent people who try to live by the best parts of the bible. If someone was brought up Christian and that faith gives them peace, I have no desire to hurt them or destroy their faith. Life is difficult and I understand why someone would want to have hope.

[formergothardite]

I do know some very nice people who find comfort in the Bible. I do understand why people need religion. It can be helpful during a difficult time. I personally can't find any hope in God anymore because of things like this, but I thought it was just a very thought provoking post. My experience in Christianity is that the small child being murdered because God commanded it is sort of glossed over.

[debrand]

I do know some very nice people who find comfort in the Bible. I do understand why people need religion. It can be helpful during a difficult time. I personally can't find any hope in God anymore because of things like this, but I thought it was just a very thought provoking post. My experience in Christianity is that the small child being murdered because God commanded it is sort of glossed over.

I agree with you. Aren't you in NC? Atheist Nexus has a good facebook page also.

[formergothardite]

I am in NC. I'll have to check out that FB page, thanks. The sad thing is, I'm not quite ready to tell everyone I know that I don't believe, so I never "like" any of these pages because if I did I know that the fallout would be awful. I'm just not ready for half my relatives to start crying over my damned soul whenever they see me.

[yewchapel]

Even though I regard the Bible as written by people rather than God, it is still difficult to read those things.

However, I am genuinely sad that you cannot 'come out' as an atheist to people you know, formergothardite. Not being American I can't know the culture, but it seems horribly backwards that just not believing in a deity would make you so reviled by others. Even though we have a state church here (which I am part of), most people I know are generally secular, if not atheists. Freedom of religion means the freedom to not have a religion at all, and it bothers me that this is not respected by such a lot of people in the US. I hope one day you can be openly irreligious (I mean this sincerely) :)

[laura oz]

Damn, that was thought provoking and so very, very sad. I remember having so many questions about the faith I was raised in, and questions do not make for a good follower. I can't count how many times I was told to come to God with the faith of a child. Which made no sense, because I was a child, and still questioned so much. I sometimes still wish when things get hard, I could wrap myself up in the blanket of church and just simply be comforted. But that just isn't the way I'm made.

[sewingmom2]

If I could see the Christians praying to this God, I would stare in disbelief at the sight. I would ask them how they could ever worship such malevolent evil and call it good. With bewilderment I would ask in angered horror how you could ever imagine that you needed the forgiveness of such a monstrous affront to human decency and goodness.

"Christians" should also read "Jews." The examples are from the Hebrew Scripture, erroneously identified by some Christians as the Old Testament.

[MajorMajor]

This almost brought me to tears. It perfectly sums up why I am no longer a Christian.

[AVENues]

I escape from all religion head over heels. People like to promote the upsides only but deep down, it's all about indoctrination, fear, guilt, control.

I'm extremely saddened and I feel so sorry for this woman. :(

[August]

If I could see the Christians praying to this God, I would stare in disbelief at the sight. I would ask them how they could ever worship such malevolent evil and call it good. With bewilderment I would ask in angered horror how you could ever imagine that you needed the forgiveness of such a monstrous affront to human decency and goodness.

"Christians" should also read "Jews." The examples are from the Hebrew Scripture, erroneously identified by some Christians as the Old Testament.

If they didn't want to be associated with it, they wouldn't call both books together the Bible and worship them.

[formergothardite]

If I could see the Christians praying to this God, I would stare in disbelief at the sight. I would ask them how they could ever worship such malevolent evil and call it good. With bewilderment I would ask in angered horror how you could ever imagine that you needed the forgiveness of such a monstrous affront to human decency and goodness.

"Christians" should also read "Jews." The examples are from the Hebrew Scripture, erroneously identified by some Christians as the Old Testament.

I agree it should also include Jews who believe that those stories are literally true, but most Christians I know believe the OT is the divine word of God and those things actually happened, and that includes all the things mentioned in that post.

[Irishy]

Growing up catholic, I never read or even owned a bible. Literally ever. Nor did my parents. I always thought "Bibles" were a real Protestant thing. We were always told in school that the crazy stuff out of the OT was mostly parable and not to be taken literally.

[sewingmom2]

Irishy, you're right. Catholics do NOT accept a literal reading of the OT. Neither do mainline Protestants. Since Catholics make up 48% of the world's Christian population and if you factor in mainline Protestants and the Orthodox, most Christians, worldwide, do NOT accept a literal translation of the Bible. Most Jews do not, either.

We have to remember what a truly small percentage of Christians are fundamentalists as well as identifying what a recent phenomenon it is. If you do the research, you will see that most fundamentalist denominations are very, very young--less than 200 years in existence and most less than 100 years. Fundamentalism is an aberrant part of Christianity, in reality.

[formergothardite]

About one third of Americans believe the Bible is literally true, even the OT and the percentage of people who believe this way has actually gone down, so that is probably why people assume a lot of Christians believe the Bible is literally true.

ETA: So Catholics don't teach that the flood actually happened? I didn't know that.

[AVENues]

Um... as to the flood... we were perfectly aware of it. Our priest even told us that they have found the remains of the ark, so there's a scientific explanation to that...

[formergothardite]

Um... as to the flood... we were perfectly aware of it. Our priest even told us that they have found the remains of the ark, so there's a scientific explanation to that...

I was told that too. :lol: So I guess you were taught that parts of the OT were true?

[JesusFightClub]

Growing up catholic, I never read or even owned a bible. Literally ever. Nor did my parents. I always thought "Bibles" were a real Protestant thing. We were always told in school that the crazy stuff out of the OT was mostly parable and not to be taken literally.

Irishy, you'll laugh at me :embarrassed: I thought Catholics *weren't allowed* to read the Bible in English!

They could read it but it had to be in Latin. No fucking clue where I picked that up from.

Weird things I thought Catholics did as a child:

They weren't allowed to say the word "condom"

They weren't allowed English bibles

They had to go to different schools because they were super weird and had to learn about monks and nuns and things

They had to wear white when they went to church

They had to support Celtic (OK, not so weird :lol: but I literally thought that was part of the Catholic religion)

They liked blowing stuff up and would be at it all the time if you let them (although I secretly was of the opinion that was a point in their favour... 8-) )

They made lots of mistakes and when Protestants tried to show them how to do things properly they just went "Fuck off" and blew more stuff up (again, this sounded pretty good to me).

They would all go to Hell and this was very sad but they had a great laugh while they were here and were permanently pissed

:embarrassed:

[merrily]

I was disillusioned helping out in Sunday school (7th grade) and overhearing the teachers asking themselves how they would explain Jesus' cruxification to little kids. And teaching them about the flood.

[JenniferJuniper]

Growing up catholic, I never read or even owned a bible. Literally ever. Nor did my parents. I always thought "Bibles" were a real Protestant thing. We were always told in school that the crazy stuff out of the OT was mostly parable and not to be taken literally.

There is a "Catholic Bible" (as anyone who has seen the old documentary "Salesman" will recall). I remember my parents had a book on their bedside table called "The Good News" which I always assumed was some sort of Bible. But we never read from it in CCD (Catechism) classes. The Missal was used for Mass, but I don't recall ever being issued one.

So while I was (reluctantly) confirmed in the Catholic Church at age 15, at no point in my religious instruction was I ever required to actually open a Bible.

[sewingmom2]

There is a "Catholic Bible" (as anyone who has seen the old documentary "Salesman" will recall). I remember my parents had a book on their bedside table called "The Good News" which I always assumed was some sort of Bible. But we never read from it in CCD (Catechism) classes. The Missal was used for Mass, but I don't recall ever being issued one.

So while I was (reluctantly) confirmed in the Catholic Church at age 15, at no point in my religious instruction was I ever required to actually open a Bible.

What is interesting is that, in reality, Catholics read more scripture out loud at Mass than Protestants or fundies read during their church services. At Sunday Mass, there is an Old Testament reading, a Psalm (read in the Jewish responsorial fashion), a selection from an Epistle, and a selection from a Gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John). The sermon is usually fairly short and is supposed to be based on the readings, which are chosen to be relevant to the liturgical year. The readings occur based on a 3-year cycle and are quite comprehensive in terms of covering the New Testament and a good chunk of the OT. A Catholic can purchase a Sunday missal, a daily missal or use the ones provided in the church. You are right, however, that Catholics can go to Mass regularly and never open a Bible. Because the readings are in the missal, some folks never realize they are hearing the Bible read out loud.

[formergothardite]

Not reading the Bible is one of the reasons I was taught that Catholics were "wrong". If people had known that they weren't teaching the flood happened or that David's infant son had died, then I'm sure that would have been added to the list of reasons that Catholics needed to be prayed for. :lol: But apparently protestants around here thought that they taught Biblical literalism too, so it was mostly the Pope, not reading the Bible and the obsession with saints.

[bananacat]

Honestly, it's incredibly weird that the story of Noah's ark is considered a children's story. The violent deaths of almost all life on Earth is pretty horrifying.

But what really horrifies me the most about the Old Testament is just how blatantly casual the misogyny is. In some ways it's better to have someone outright hate women rather than just dismiss them completely. It was almost traumatic for me to read about how unmarried girls were listed among the spoils of war, right in between the livestock and gold and silver. It's like women simply don't register as people at all. Like, it wouldn't even occur to other to describe them in any other way.

[docmom]

Irishy, you'll laugh at me :embarrassed: I thought Catholics *weren't allowed* to read the Bible in English!

They could read it but it had to be in Latin. No fucking clue where I picked that up from.

Weird things I thought Catholics did as a child:

They weren't allowed to say the word "condom"

They weren't allowed English bibles

They had to go to different schools because they were super weird and had to learn about monks and nuns and things

They had to wear white when they went to church

They had to support Celtic (OK, not so weird :lol: but I literally thought that was part of the Catholic religion)

They liked blowing stuff up and would be at it all the time if you let them (although I secretly was of the opinion that was a point in their favour... 8-) )

They made lots of mistakes and when Protestants tried to show them how to do things properly they just went "Fuck off" and blew more stuff up (again, this sounded pretty good to me).

They would all go to Hell and this was very sad but they had a great laugh while they were here and were permanently pissed

:embarrassed:

JFC I'm laughing! That's what I was taught too! I lived in a "mixed" area of Glasgow (that's mixed Catholics and Protestants for the non-scots) and although I had lots of Catholic friends I was still told all this stuff and more like Catholics go to hell if they ever miss church and they worship statues. The natural superiority of Protestants was reinforced by our school being on top of the hill and the Catholic one at the bottom.

OP that was very thought provoking. I've stopped believing in the bible and I hope the stories aren't true but I fear they are.

[Savoring Samsara]

What is interesting is that, in reality, Catholics read more scripture out loud at Mass than Protestants or fundies read during their church services. At Sunday Mass, there is an Old Testament reading, a Psalm (read in the Jewish responsorial fashion), a selection from an Epistle, and a selection from a Gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John). The sermon is usually fairly short and is supposed to be based on the readings, which are chosen to be relevant to the liturgical year. The readings occur based on a 3-year cycle and are quite comprehensive in terms of covering the New Testament and a good chunk of the OT. A Catholic can purchase a Sunday missal, a daily missal or use the ones provided in the church. You are right, however, that Catholics can go to Mass regularly and never open a Bible. Because the readings are in the missal, some folks never realize they are hearing the Bible read out loud.

This is not necessarily true of all Protestants. The structure of the typical Lutheran service is very similar to a Catholic mass and has the same number of Scripture readings and runs on a similar 3-year liturgical cycle (though the Psalm is often replaced with a song inspired by a Psalm).