Is having children rational?

[Feberin]

This article asks if having children is a rational decision. I don't think it is one since like the article mentions you can never really understand how you personally will react before becoming a parent.

[yewchapel]

It's entirely rational from an evolutionary standpoint. However I don't like the concept that everything has to be rational - plenty of things are not rational or unnatural but are fun or good in some other way. I mean, dancing and music and chocolate are hardly rational and totally necessary for survival, but they are good.

[JenniferJuniper]

It certainly isn't financially rational to have kids. Most people don't need farmhands these days.

[tabitha2]

it seems most people have kids for selfish reasons-attention, to please spouse, family, to live though the kid, etc or want the sweet tiny baby but don't actually want a child.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Yes, its quite rational to have a child-if you like children and accept that they keep you awake at night, poop on the cute little clothes you buy for them and grow up into little people with their own opinions. If not, then no.

[Diana]

i dont think is rational, but instintive, from our animal nature. Sure we can do plans, choose the right moment... but the desire to be a parent is something that you dont plan

[Ellimenopy]

i dont think is rational, but instintive, from our animal nature. Sure we can do plans, choose the right moment... but the desire to be a parent is something that you dont plan

Right. I think most of actually take from the irrational, instinctual thing into the world of the rational. You can't rationalize the desire for children, other than to have a piece of you live on, but you can rationally decide what the best is to do it: lining up financial and emotional resources to best support a child.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I think it is mostly instinct. When I have "baby fever" I take a step back and realize that it would be totally irrational for me. It's a constant battle between what I know are the appropriate choices in my life right now, and what my biological clock is trying to demand. That's just my situation, but in general, I don't see any rational reason to have them. Is there one, really? If there were, this might help me make up my mind. The only thing I can think of is "I'll raise a little genius/humanitarian who will better the world," which may be a rational desire, but is also laughably arrogant and completely lacking in foresight. But if you have kids just because you like them, it could be argued that this is irrational because your enjoyment will never outweigh the stress and fear and expense.

I dunno, just reasoning. Not condemning anyone's choices to have kids. I don't have any illusion that everything is - or should be - based on rational decision making. Love, empathy, and the like are often irrational.

[CrankyCatLady]

it seems most people have kids for selfish reasons-attention, to please spouse, family, to live though the kid, etc or want the sweet tiny baby but don't actually want a child.

:roll: Yeah, that's exactly why people have children.

[CrankyCatLady]

I had kids because I wanted to have kids. I like my kids (don't ask me about other people's children, however) and I like spending time with them. I like that they're small people with their owns likes and wants and quirks and opinions and I like seeing how they're growing up. If that's selfish, then it's selfish. Maybe it's irrational, but I didn't have kids to please anyone else or to live thru them.

[Rosie]

No, not rational at all. The world doesn't need more people, and life is a lot easier without children.

It is primal/instinctive, though.

[Widget]

:roll: Yeah, that's exactly why people have children.

If the women I know are any indication, most people have kids because "the birth control didn't work right"

[CrankyCatLady]

If the women I know are any indication, most people have kids because "the birth control didn't work right"

*snort* well, yes, that may have played a part in the conception of my first....

[2xx1xy1JD]

I partially agree with the premise.

Having a child means taking a step into the unknown. It isn't completely uncharted territority, since others have traveled there before and written visitor guides, but you won't truly know what it's like for your until you get there.

I don't think that means that no part of the decision-making process is rational. We make decisions based upon incomplete information all the time, from traveling to a new destination to undergoing a new medical procedure. We can make decisions to commit to a course of action, knowing that there is no guarantee and that there is some assumption of risk.

While you can't always know with 100% certainty how you or someone else will react to parenthood, there are some ways to have a pretty good guess. My husband always doted on his much-younger sister and was an awesome camp counselor and youth group leader. No big surprise that he's a good dad. My sister's husband always worked with kids with special needs, loved the work and was absolutely loved by everyone. No surprise that he's great with his own kids, including my nephew who is on the autism spectrum. My husband's brother was the favorite uncle with my kids. No big surprise that his kids adore him either.

On the other hand, I would agree that there are feelings that I would have had difficulty describing or understanding before I got pregnant. There are also things that I don't really discuss that much with others, because it would just sound too corny or religious or out-of-character for someone snarky like me. So, before I got pregnant for the first time, I knew that I liked kids in general, that my husband would make a good father, and that we were approaching a time in our lives where kids could fit into the picture. That was the rational part. The part that I didn't discuss is that I sometimes wondered while reading all the pregnancy and parenting magazines is this was all worth it, or that I was slightly terrified of the changes that would happen. I told people about the miscarriage, but most weren't aware of the depth of the grief and the fact that I was wondering if I was losing my mind. It was a mental and emotional landscape that I hadn't known existed. I didn't know that it was possible to physically feel grief, to have an actual sensation of empty arms. I do know that our decision to get pregnant again was very different - it wasn't a "sure, I guess we want kids now", but an actual hunger to be parents. It's a bit hard to explain that to people in real life, especially if they've never experienced anything like that, if you don't want to sound like a lunatic.

It's also hard to explain the joy that we felt upon the birth of our first baby. It was just an instant end to the depression and paranoia, and a moment of pure joy. Again, outside of religious circles, you don't use terms like "pure joy" in real life in rational conversations. So, I'd talk about the mundane and funny stuff, like the first time I had the baby pee AND poo AND puke over me all at once. I had the words for that. I didn't have the words to describe that I didn't really mind that much, because she was part of me and a living miracle and I was still floating on this cloud. I'd complain about the fact that she never slept between 1 am and 5 am, but didn't talk about the feeling of emptiness that I had felt before she was born and how, even though I was insanely exhausted, I needed to feel her in my arms.

It's hard to explain the neat feeling of having your baby grow into a person, and getting to know their own little personality quirks. I didn't know that my sensitive oldest child could move me so much, or that I could be so fascinated with my smart and independent middle child's imaginary world, or that I could learn to cheer on my youngest child's interest in all things sports-related.

[skeptifem]

This article asks if having children is a rational decision. I don't think it is one since like the article mentions you can never really understand how you personally will react before becoming a parent.

The vast majority of people remark that being a parent has caused them to be a better person. Caring for others is transformative. People frame children as people who only take- they take up time, energy, etc but in reality they give back by what caring for them does to caregivers. The connectedness of humanity becomes apparent in a very powerful way- every person was someones baby once.

Your brain is flooded with chemicals that cause parents to care about their children more than they have cared about anyone else before. In normal people this is predictable. People who have kids and don't care for them are a minority of people with serious problems. You either have to not want them to begin with and have them anyway (poor decision making) or not think about it much beforehand (impulsiveness). The truly shitty parents I know have very apparent personality disorders/substance abuse issues without exception.

[BlackHawk]

If the whole premise of the article is that it is irrational to do things of which you cannot know the outcome then nothing is rational. You can never know the outcome of anything because everything has variables that can cause an outcome different from what you expect. Is it rational to walk to the store? Possibly not based on the article because that walk could cause great harm and discomfort. If the point of rationality is based on knowing the outcome of every decision then nothing is rational.

The author probably chose having a child simply to get the publicity.

[CrankyCatLady]

I partially agree with the premise.

Having a child means taking a step into the unknown. It isn't completely uncharted territority, since others have traveled there before and written visitor guides, but you won't truly know what it's like for your until you get there.

I don't think that means that no part of the decision-making process is rational. We make decisions based upon incomplete information all the time, from traveling to a new destination to undergoing a new medical procedure. We can make decisions to commit to a course of action, knowing that there is no guarantee and that there is some assumption of risk.

While you can't always know with 100% certainty how you or someone else will react to parenthood, there are some ways to have a pretty good guess. My husband always doted on his much-younger sister and was an awesome camp counselor and youth group leader. No big surprise that he's a good dad. My sister's husband always worked with kids with special needs, loved the work and was absolutely loved by everyone. No surprise that he's great with his own kids, including my nephew who is on the autism spectrum. My husband's brother was the favorite uncle with my kids. No big surprise that his kids adore him either.

On the other hand, I would agree that there are feelings that I would have had difficulty describing or understanding before I got pregnant. There are also things that I don't really discuss that much with others, because it would just sound too corny or religious or out-of-character for someone snarky like me. So, before I got pregnant for the first time, I knew that I liked kids in general, that my husband would make a good father, and that we were approaching a time in our lives where kids could fit into the picture. That was the rational part. The part that I didn't discuss is that I sometimes wondered while reading all the pregnancy and parenting magazines is this was all worth it, or that I was slightly terrified of the changes that would happen. I told people about the miscarriage, but most weren't aware of the depth of the grief and the fact that I was wondering if I was losing my mind. It was a mental and emotional landscape that I hadn't known existed. I didn't know that it was possible to physically feel grief, to have an actual sensation of empty arms. I do know that our decision to get pregnant again was very different - it wasn't a "sure, I guess we want kids now", but an actual hunger to be parents. It's a bit hard to explain that to people in real life, especially if they've never experienced anything like that, if you don't want to sound like a lunatic.

It's also hard to explain the joy that we felt upon the birth of our first baby. It was just an instant end to the depression and paranoia, and a moment of pure joy. Again, outside of religious circles, you don't use terms like "pure joy" in real life in rational conversations. So, I'd talk about the mundane and funny stuff, like the first time I had the baby pee AND poo AND puke over me all at once. I had the words for that. I didn't have the words to describe that I didn't really mind that much, because she was part of me and a living miracle and I was still floating on this cloud. I'd complain about the fact that she never slept between 1 am and 5 am, but didn't talk about the feeling of emptiness that I had felt before she was born and how, even though I was insanely exhausted, I needed to feel her in my arms.

It's hard to explain the neat feeling of having your baby grow into a person, and getting to know their own little personality quirks. I didn't know that my sensitive oldest child could move me so much, or that I could be so fascinated with my smart and independent middle child's imaginary world, or that I could learn to cheer on my youngest child's interest in all things sports-related.

That's really lovely, and much more eloquent than I could have ever come up with, but I agree.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I think it is mostly instinct. When I have "baby fever" I take a step back and realize that it would be totally irrational for me. It's a constant battle between what I know are the appropriate choices in my life right now, and what my biological clock is trying to demand. That's just my situation, but in general, I don't see any rational reason to have them. Is there one, really? If there were, this might help me make up my mind. The only thing I can think of is "I'll raise a little genius/humanitarian who will better the world," which may be a rational desire, but is also laughably arrogant and completely lacking in foresight. But if you have kids just because you like them, it could be argued that this is irrational because your enjoyment will never outweigh the stress and fear and expense.

I dunno, just reasoning. Not condemning anyone's choices to have kids. I don't have any illusion that everything is - or should be - based on rational decision making. Love, empathy, and the like are often irrational.

Having a highly specific goal for your child may be arrogant or unrealistic, but it's possible to believe "I'll raise a decent human being, who will contribute to the universe in his/her own unique way and hopefully fulfill his/her own unique mission in life."

I guess part of my reasoning as well involved the whole question of what is rational and what really makes us happy. Yes, I would have more money and time, fewer stretch marks and messes if I did not have children. Some things, on a day-to-day level, might be easier. Would that translate into more true happiness and satisfaction with life? For me personally, in my own life situation, it would not. I gain satisfaction from feeling that parenting my children is part of what I was meant to do in life.

[AnywhereButHere]

I don't think people in general are rational. Although we try, we all tend to operate on "want to's" a fair bit of the time. I, for example, made an irrational decision to eat a bag of M&Ms at lunch today even though I have a plan with my husband that if I lose 50 pounds by the end of the year, we'll go to Hawaii (we're calling it motivation - sounds nicer than blackmail...).

We wanted a child and so had one (and not to please parents or spouses or for living through him thank you very much), and while we thought it was a rational decision, it may not have been. Hidden costs and things you can't plan for kind of jump out at you where kids are concerned. I like to think of the choices I make as informed rather than rational. I learn as much as I can, weigh the pros and cons, make the decision and jump. Doesn't always work out like I planned, but that's part of the fun of it.

[shaylahc]

I think the drive to procreate is very strong....most people have children because they have sex. The consequences of having sex=children lol. Yes there is birth control, but something like 50% of pregnancies are unplanned. It's hard to be rational with mother nature in charge.

I also agree that we make a lot of irrational decisions. We overeat because it feels good, we don't always make the best decisions. Sometimes it's tempting to throw caution to the wind and do something irrational. We seek to have pleasurable experiences. Sex is pleasurable. Some women really enjoy being pregnant, and for them it's almost more about the joy of being pregnant than about having more kids. Plus kids are cute, and deceptively easy to care for when they're small. I had 4 kids, it was easy when they were small, but now that 2 of them are teens (plus 1 preteen and 1 tween) I think I must have been insane when I decided to have 4 of them. lol

[skeptifem]

I don't think people in general are rational. Although we try, we all tend to operate on "want to's" a fair bit of the time. I, for example, made an irrational decision to eat a bag of M&Ms at lunch today even though I have a plan with my husband that if I lose 50 pounds by the end of the year, we'll go to Hawaii (we're calling it motivation - sounds nicer than blackmail...).

I feel sad when I read things like this. Putting life off until you're thin is a sucky way to live.

http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2012 ... est-thing/

[MajorMajor]

As some other posters have alluded to, it is irrational to as a species stop having children. Yes, right now the earth is overpopulated, but it would not be rational to completely cease reproducing.

I think it would be better to say that people often have irrational expectations about what having children will be like.

[MissA]

These authors appear to be arguing that having children is "an epistemically transformative" experience, which apparently in philosophical jargon means that you cannot make a rational decision about it because the experience gives you new information that you could not have had before the fact.

Which is true but it's true of a lot of other things, both profound and trivial. I didn't know if I would succeed in my college major and justify the investment of four years and $60K. I didn't know if I would enjoy a seitan "steak" sandwich at the local new vegan fast food cafe. (Yes to both. That sandwich was actually really delicious and has made me examine more vegetarian alternatives in my own cooking.)

Ideas are tested by experiment. Making the hypothesis ("I would like having a baby around here"), doing the background research ("I enjoyed babysitting that other baby, and people keep saying I will be a good mother") and doing the experiment is not intrinsically irrational, any more than the alternative hypothesis ("Having a baby around here would suck") is.

[AnywhereButHere]

I feel sad when I read things like this. Putting life off until you're thin is a sucky way to live.

http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2012 ... est-thing/

Oh trust me, I'm not putting anything off, just using a trip I really want as motivation (and it's as much for health as for weight loss hough I'd be lying if I said thinner wouldn't be nicer). Although it wasn''t enough to stop my trip to the vending machine at 0 snack 30, so maybe a different approach is in order. :D

I like that link you posted though. The writer has a great outlook and seems to have had quite a journey to self acceptance.

[jjmennonite]

2xx1xy1JD, that was lovely and eloquent, as someone else stated.

I became a mother, at the age of 34, due to birth control carelessness. I knew I was with my sexual partner 'for a good time, not a long time' so was not planning on having a child with him, at least not rationally. However, we both knew we were being careless, so, on an emotional, or sub-conscious level, I was likely 'planning' a child. It took me only 10 days to go from 'oh shit, I am pregnant' to 'WOW, I will have a baby!!!!!'

Twenty years later, I have a beautiful daughter, who is very much her own person, and very much a compassionate, decent human being. I cannot imagine my life without her. She has never met her sperm doner. I am just recently involved with a man who is likely a keeper, far too late to make babies.

I do not believe in a sky god, manipulating us, his puppets, but I do believe in a life force we all share. I know I wanted children, from about the age of 30 on, and I, with this life force, made it happen, even though I was not prepared to rationally decide to become a single mother.

She is my miracle baby!

I don't mean this to sound arrogent, but if all babies were yearned for, and wanted as much as she was, and given the stable upbringing this ebil single mother gave her, this world would be a better place.

I have LOTS of doubts in my motherhood skills and choices, as does any rational mother, but if I mention them in front of my daughter, she will roll her eyes and say 'Yes, obviously you were a bad mother because I am such a fuck up' .