Abby's "Struggle" with infertility

[takers401]

This post really bothers me. I know I don't have secondary infertility but we are on month 9 of trying to have a second child and having her complain like this after barely one month of trying just gets my goat. I don't feel ok saying she should rejoice for the children she has and not worry about another pregnancy (because I've had people say that about my situation and it hurts), but darn it it's your first period after having a baby. She's crazy if she expected instant pregnancy. Ugh.

[Bloo]

The thing is, these Quiverfull people reach that God decides when to open and close the quiver. Apparently that only works as long as the quiver is wide open.

It's not so much that we can't empathize with her desire for another child. It's that 1) she's a piss poor parent, 2) she's a hypocrite, and 3) what she's experienced is in NO WAY infertility.

I'm touchy about this right now as my husband's co-worker was pregnant with IVF twins after years of trying...last week, at (I think) the end of the second trimester, both babies died. And here's Abigail whining about looking at a fucking tampon. Fuck you, Abigail. Fuck you.

[Boltingmadonna]

So, the trainwreck that is Abigail now has a post up about how we should not compare our suffering to that of others--i.e. don't you dare tell me I'm not infertile, because I suffer way more than the rest of you, so there. However, her writing sounds pretty moderate and reasonable, until we get to the part where she tells an illustrative anecdote from her own experience, about how she got screamed at viciously by another NICU parent in the breast-pumping lounge at the hospital. Behold:

The fellow NICU Mom made some mention about how being the mother of a premie is so hard. I said "oh my daughter is full term." She suddenly started screaming at me. It was the most abusive, violent thing. I remember watching the plastic pump cup she was waving in her fist because I thought it was going to fly off into my face.

She just started screaming that I had not right to her pity. I had no right to be sad. I had no right to be there. This hospital was for sick babies. Full term babies are not "sick" so how dare I insult her by being worried about my daughter's surgery.

I can't say for sure this never happened, but I'm really tempted to say "Video or it didn't happen." Thoughts on this? Have any other FJ-ers been screamed at viciously in a hospital? It could happen I guess, but it's just so weird. Abigail gets viciously persecuted in church, in the checkout line, and now in the hospital. Either she is making this up, or she really is more persecuted than anyone since the dawn of time.

[kpmom]

So, the trainwreck that is Abigail now has a post up about how we should not compare our suffering to that of others--i.e. don't you dare tell me I'm not infertile, because I suffer way more than the rest of you, so there. However, her writing sounds pretty moderate and reasonable, until we get to the part where she tells an illustrative anecdote from her own experience, about how she got screamed at viciously by another NICU parent in the breast-pumping lounge at the hospital. Behold:

I can't say for sure this never happened, but I'm really tempted to say "Video or it didn't happen." Thoughts on this? Have any other FJ-ers been screamed at viciously in a hospital? It could happen I guess, but it's just so weird. Abigail gets viciously persecuted in church, in the checkout line, and now in the hospital. Either she is making this up, or she really is more persecuted than anyone since the dawn of time.

It sounds completely made up. Parents generally bond in situations like that. A baby who needs surgery is not sick? What person in her right mind would make a statement like that?

[NurseNell]

It sounds completely made up. Parents generally bond in situations like that. A baby who needs surgery is not sick? What person in her right mind would make a statement like that?

I agree. My grandson's half brother was in NICU for 6 weeks, he was full term and weighed over 8 lbs. He aspirated meconium during a cord prolapse and was very, very ill for a long time. No other parent ever implied he didn't belong there.

[meda]

So, the trainwreck that is Abigail now has a post up about how we should not compare our suffering to that of others--i.e. don't you dare tell me I'm not infertile, because I suffer way more than the rest of you, so there. However, her writing sounds pretty moderate and reasonable, until we get to the part where she tells an illustrative anecdote from her own experience, about how she got screamed at viciously by another NICU parent in the breast-pumping lounge at the hospital. Behold:

I can't say for sure this never happened, but I'm really tempted to say "Video or it didn't happen." Thoughts on this? Have any other FJ-ers been screamed at viciously in a hospital? It could happen I guess, but it's just so weird. Abigail gets viciously persecuted in church, in the checkout line, and now in the hospital. Either she is making this up, or she really is more persecuted than anyone since the dawn of time.

If i had to read between the lines, probably the other mother made some conversational remark to Abigail along the lines of "so my kid is x weeks premature, its been a real challenge for us, what is your child here for?" At which point Abigail probably went off on some long rant about her martyrdom, and the other mother may have rolled her eyes and made a snippy comment. Or not, and Abigail just "felt" persecuted anyway. Because as we have already discovered, she does not live in the reality based world.

And yea, she's still not infertile, and she is co-opting other women's real pain. I wear glasses, that fact does not mean I get to babble on about my struggles with blindness. :roll:

[pixydust]

If i had to read between the lines, probably the other mother made some conversational remark to Abigail along the lines of "so my kid is x weeks premature, its been a real challenge for us, what is your child here for?" At which point Abigail probably went off on some long rant about her martyrdom, and the other mother may have rolled her eyes and made a snippy comment. Or not, and Abigail just "felt" persecuted anyway. Because as we have already discovered, she does not live in the reality based world.

And yea, she's still not infertile, and she is co-opting other women's real pain. I wear glasses, that fact does not mean I get to babble on about my struggles with blindness. :roll:

The other mom probably said something along the lines of "Oh I can't wait until my baby is 7 pounds!" and Abigail went ape shit.

[OkToBeTakei]

I will not bore with my story of infertility suffice to say 12 years and many routes, but my memory faded at the birth of my beautiful girl. My heart goes out to all those who are/were going through this.

Story.

My friend with two children was desperate to have her third. Eighteen months post her last pregnancy and not breastfeeding she began to fear secondary infertility. She went to her GP and was referred as is her right to the nearest hospital dealing with infertility issues. This is the NHS it is free, as is, depending on your trust numerous attempts with varying treatments. It took seven months for her initial appointment to come to fruition. From memory the first appointment is to discuss the issues, history, arrange tests and formulate an initial plan of care. She attended. She informed the consultant that she was three months pregnant but felt she should attend as it had taken her nearly two years to get pregnant. The consultant apparently stood up. Walked to the door and held it open.

She came straight to me in tears about how badly she had been treated. As the good friend I am I made her a cup of tea called her a fucking moron and asked her what she expected?

Is it bad I wish dear Abigail visits the same consultant next week?

(We are still good friends BTW :lol: )

[CelticGoddess]

Is she deliberately trying to have a child with CF? She's crazier than a shit house rat, but dayam. That goes beyond crazy. That is munchausenesque in my opinion. I don't understand people like that. (And this is why I am NOT a peds nurse. I would have to beat the shit out of parents like Abigail)

[Morton Fan]

Is she deliberately trying to have a child with CF? She's crazier than a shit house rat, but dayam. That goes beyond crazy. That is munchausenesque in my opinion. I don't understand people like that. (And this is why I am NOT a peds nurse. I would have to beat the shit out of parents like Abigail)

Austin (may her username rest in peace) used to argue vehemently about no child being guaranteed a healthy life and blah blah, but I have to agree with CelticGoddess. I just don't know why someone would knowingly try to bring in a sixth child into this world when they have survived genetic roulette so far. I think she has no idea what ramifications of CF actually are.

[rollmeover]

I so wanted to comment on that post but refrained. Abigail is a favourite topic of discussion between my sister and me as we are both Catholic, home-educating mothers - we will text each other with "did you see the latest post". My sister will never have a biological child and adopted after a long struggle, and we have another sister getting dizzy on the IVF merry-go-round so that post was just so maddening and so typically Abigail.

On the subject of catholics being attracted to suffering - no, I think we see there can be value in suffering which can help make sense of it, make it somehow less painful if you can feel it has purpose in your life. And I have always been taught that if you deliberately seek martyrdom it doesn't count. So all poor Abigail's "suffering" seems like it will be unproductive.

[mockingbird]

Austin (may her username rest in peace) used to argue vehemently about no child being guaranteed a healthy life and blah blah, but I have to agree with CelticGoddess. I just don't know why someone would knowingly try to bring in a sixth child into this world when they have survived genetic roulette so far. I think she has no idea what ramifications of CF actually are.

Yeah, I think there is something different when you know the odds, almost like condemning a future child, vs. not giving up on your child who becomes sick or disabled after birth or even for some people, not aborting a pregnancy when a disease or congenital defect is detected. At that point, you don't have a choice about how this child is going to end up. Before, you could choose to have children another way and avoid placing suffering on a future life.

Oh and I think she knows exactly what the ramifications of CF are and wants them. I think I have said this before but I would love to her to hear from my mom. Just a little bit. I was very sick as a child (I didn't have CF, but another life-threatening illness) and my mom is very adamant that she would never place a quality of life judgement on me or how having a very sick baby changed her life, things just are what they are and she loves all of her kids. However... that being said, hearing someone wants to be like her in some way would incite a special kind of rage. You do not tell my mom that you want to have a kid in my circumstances like it's all a big fun circus. I would like Abigail to feel a little of it ;)

[meda]

This thread has been a little rage inducing for me. My husband and I have been dealing with infertility for 4 years, and I conceived with IUI. Before we started fertility treatments, we had genetic testing done to make sure we were not carriers for about 150 diseases. I just had the amnio done this week, because as a 36 year old with certain risk factors, that seemed like a responsible thing to do. Not because I hate people with disabilities, but because I as a parent do not want to needlessly stack the deck against my child before he is even born.

I simply cannot comprehend people like this woman and her husband, both CF carriers, who blithely have 5 children without the disease (which must be some sort of statistical miracle), and rather than actually raising them with some level of competency, whine about infertility.

[Morton Fan]

Yeah, I think there is something different when you know the odds, almost like condemning a future child, vs. not giving up on your child who becomes sick or disabled after birth or even for some people, not aborting a pregnancy when a disease or congenital defect is detected. At that point, you don't have a choice about how this child is going to end up. Before, you could choose to have children another way and avoid placing suffering on a future life.

Oh and I think she knows exactly what the ramifications of CF are and wants them. I think I have said this before but I would love to her to hear from my mom. Just a little bit. I was very sick as a child (I didn't have CF, but another life-threatening illness) and my mom is very adamant that she would never place a quality of life judgement on me or how having a very sick baby changed her life, things just are what they are and she loves all of her kids. However... that being said, hearing someone wants to be like her in some way would incite a special kind of rage. You do not tell my mom that you want to have a kid in my circumstances like it's all a big fun circus. I would like Abigail to feel a little of it ;)

I have a chronically, seriously ill baby daughter and, well, I would agree with your mother.

[darareaksmey]

So, the trainwreck that is Abigail now has a post up about how we should not compare our suffering to that of others--i.e. don't you dare tell me I'm not infertile, because I suffer way more than the rest of you, so there. However, her writing sounds pretty moderate and reasonable, until we get to the part where she tells an illustrative anecdote from her own experience, about how she got screamed at viciously by another NICU parent in the breast-pumping lounge at the hospital. Behold:

I can't say for sure this never happened, but I'm really tempted to say "Video or it didn't happen." Thoughts on this? Have any other FJ-ers been screamed at viciously in a hospital? It could happen I guess, but it's just so weird. Abigail gets viciously persecuted in church, in the checkout line, and now in the hospital. Either she is making this up, or she really is more persecuted than anyone since the dawn of time.

Balderdash. No woman who is in the hospital desperate for her child to get better gets up and screams at another "You have no right to my pity!!!" It does not happen, if for no other reason than karma is a bitch and you don't want to wish ill on another for fear your child will bear the karmic consequences.

Good call, bolting madonna.

[Burris]

I'm sure someone has mentioned this already, probably more than once, but I thought 'God opens and closes the womb.'

Five kids and the 'struggles with infertility'? Fuuuuuuuck her.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Hasnt she thought that God closed her womb for a reason? Probably due to how statistically the fact that all of her kids are healthy is very very unlikely, and God is trying to spare the future child from a lifetime of illness?

[snarkykitty]

No, they both carry CF.

abigails-alcove.blogspot.com/search?q=cystic+fibrosis

Sigh. There is only so much (and it's not much) that can be determined from knowing which mutation(s) you carry. Some CF patients carry two different CF mutations, some carry two copies of the same mutation. I carry two copies of what is supposedly the most "dangerous" gene, but that really means nothing. The one thing that can be determined is that certain mutations cause Pancreatic Insufficiency. About 85-90% of CF patients have PI; the remaining 10-15% have genes that do not result in PI.

Apparently so! I don't know how their 5 children managed to escape it. The risk of a CF child is 25 percent, and a 25 percent chance of having a non-CF child. 50 percent after that is the chance of becoming a carrier. So statistically, one of those children should have already had it. So she's either been incredibly lucky (or not, according to Abby), or maybe she's lying about it.

Each pregnancy has a 25% of the child carrying two copies of the faulty gene, and as a result, having CF. So it doesn't matter how many kids you have in total. My mom had 6 kids and only I have CF. I have over 50 first cousins - no other CF.

I've never heard of a rarely active CF gene. While some CF genes mutations create more severe cases, the fact is that the genes are still there. There's the potential to have a kid with CF regardless, and I sincerely believe she wants a sick kid.

I know someone who has a mild form of CF. And guess what? it takes two sets of genes, so yeah, not buying that.

"Mild," "Moderate," and "Severe" usually refer to the current state of lung damage, not the level of sickness. For most CF patients, the decline is slowly progressive. For all patients with Lung disease, we all have the chance of an infection "going rouge" and taking you down. It happened to me last fall, and I spent 3 weeks on Oxygen and had lost 2/3 of my lung function from my "highest" scoring pulmonary function tests due to a flareup of 3 strains of Pneumonia, a strain of MRSA, and a strain of regular old Staph Aureus.

And I don't know what she means by "rarely active CF gene". While there are some rare mutations, there's no such thing as a "rarely active CF gene". That doesn't even make sense to me.

Please forgive me if I come across as blunt; because the disease is often "invisible," a lot of us spend a lot of time validating ourselves to others - including doctors. I've had doctors tell me that I was "too heavy" (at the time, 115 at 5'2") or "too old" (at the time, 33) to have CF (WHILE I was inpatient on IV antibiotics for pneumonia). One doctor asked me if I was sure that I didn't "mean Fibrocystic Breast Disease" (again, while inpatient).

[DistantStar]

Even if you have something visible it doesn't always matter. Two doctors have, after the space of five minutes with me, told me that I don't have what it took expert docs nearly five years to pin down when I was a kid. Here, Doc, let me give you this name of the doc at Johns Hopkins who took one look at me as an adult and said, "Yep, that's what you've got!" as did his geneticist colleague. I'll believe them over you, somehow, and the docs who diagnosed me as a kid. Just scoliosis my ass.

I'm sorry but even though I don't have kids I can't take anybody seriously who whines about infertility when they have five. Hell even if you are now, which you are not after only one post-baby period, you have five kids. Plenty of infertile couples would sell their souls for one. Quit being a crazy asshole about it.

[slickcat79]

Sigh. There is only so much (and it's not much) that can be determined from knowing which mutation(s) you carry. Some CF patients carry two different CF mutations, some carry two copies of the same mutation. I carry two copies of what is supposedly the most "dangerous" gene, but that really means nothing. The one thing that can be determined is that certain mutations cause Pancreatic Insufficiency. About 85-90% of CF patients have PI; the remaining 10-15% have genes that do not result in PI.

Each pregnancy has a 25% of the child carrying two copies of the faulty gene, and as a result, having CF. So it doesn't matter how many kids you have in total. My mom had 6 kids and only I have CF. I have over 50 first cousins - no other CF.

Well, yes, but the chances of Abigail having one kid without CF is 75%. The chances of her having one kid without CF AND then a second kid without CF is .75 x .75, or 56.25%, and so on and so forth with each additional child. Had your mother gone on to have 8 kids, it's statistically likely you would have a sibling with CF. Abigail has been lucky, but as always, statistics are not prescriptive, especially with genetics.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I didn't know that having 2 of the same mutation vs. different mutations would make a difference, although it makes sense to think of it that way.

[Ex 2x2]

Definitely calling BS on the hospital story. I wonder if Abigail knows she's lying, or if, in her head, she really thinks this happened.

[pixydust]

Definitely calling BS on the hospital story. I wonder if Abigail knows she's lying, or if, in her head, she really thinks this happened.

I think that she truly believes everything that she says is true. Her perspective is warped.

[Ex 2x2]

Wow...go read the comments posted by "Brenda" on Abigail's last post. She wrote a really nicely worded response that hits on all the things that drive me crazy about Abigail.

[luv2run]

Wow...go read the comments posted by "Brenda" on Abigail's last post. She wrote a really nicely worded response that hits on all the things that drive me crazy about Abigail.

I thought it was fan-freakin-tastic.

And I really, really hope Abigail takes it to heart, with no defensiveness.

Brenda's response was beautifully written. If someone spoke to me like that, I could only response respectfully. Because that's how it was delivered and given.

[NurseNell]

I thought it was fan-freakin-tastic.

And I really, really hope Abigail takes it to heart, with no defensiveness.

Brenda's response was beautifully written. If someone spoke to me like that, I could only response respectfully. Because that's how it was delivered and given.

Brenda's reply is right on.