Any FJingerites with conservative opinions?

[lilith]

I'm sorry I missed this.

I'm talking about a hypothetical situation where people may choose abortion as contraception. I saw a bbc doc last week about abortion where they highlighted Croydon in London as having the highest rate in the UK of repeat abortions. They interviewed a woman who'd had multiple abortions who said that yeah, it was just too bloody easy. I would think that it's just not something to be taken so lightly. This probably stems from my conflicting opinions on abortion in general. I would not ever take away someone else's choice but I am not convinced I would choose it for myself.

I'm glad that you don't want your reproductive preferences forced on the entire population, but have you considered that those women who had been interviewed and talked about abortions being "too easy" and a good contraceptive choice would have been chosen for the interview precisely because they were outside of the norm and would provide a sensational sound bite?

Abortion is NOT an easy choice for the vast majority of women who choose it. At the very least it is invasive surgery, and for most there is an emotional aspect and a grief at admitting that they are not ready or able to parent at that time.

Women don't use abortion as contraception because it isn't contraception. Women may have made irresponsible choices about contraception or even made no choices and just hoped for the best, but that doesn't make abortion contraception or lessen the impact the choice has on women. I'm sure even the interviewed woman who said "it's just so easy" would have found it much easier (and cheaper) to have used reliable contraception, but unfortunately humans don't always make logical and sensible decisions.

I personally though would much rather that a woman who doesn't want to parent and can't manage to organise contraception isn't forced to proceed with a pregnancy she doesn't want and raise a child that she knows she isn't currently equipped to raise.

[Irishy]

Choosing to have an abortion is just so easy? :angry-cussingblack: Do you speak from experience? Perhaps you know someone who knows someone who has a cousin that flies to the UK from Ireland every six months for a yet another abortion? Someone over there has thousands of extra Euros a year to spend getting abortions because she can't be arsed to get and use the free birth control?

As someone who chose to have an abortion, I find your opinion that abortion is an "easy option" offensive and ignorant.

I do not think all abortions are 'so easy'. What I am talking about is an extreme. A situation perhaps in the future where it becomes just-so-easy that it becomes an accepted method of contraception in itself. So what you find ignorant and offensive, is not in fact, my opinion.

[Irishy]

I'm glad that you don't want your reproductive preferences forced on the entire population, but have you considered that those women who had been interviewed and talked about abortions being "too easy" and a good contraceptive choice would have been chosen for the interview precisely because they were outside of the norm and would provide a sensational sound bite?

Abortion is NOT an easy choice for the vast majority of women who choose it. At the very least it is invasive surgery, and for most there is an emotional aspect and a grief at admitting that they are not ready or able to parent at that time.

Women don't use abortion as contraception because it isn't contraception. Women may have made irresponsible choices about contraception or even made no choices and just hoped for the best, but that doesn't make abortion contraception or lessen the impact the choice has on women. I'm sure even the interviewed woman who said "it's just so easy" would have found it much easier (and cheaper) to have used reliable contraception, but unfortunately humans don't always make logical and sensible decisions.

I personally though would much rather that a woman who doesn't want to parent and can't manage to organise contraception isn't forced to proceed with a pregnancy she doesn't want and raise a child that she knows she isn't currently equipped to raise.

Yes, you are probably right. They probably did choose an extreme example of people to interview.

I would not even say that those are necessarily MY reproductive preferences. I have never been in that situation so I can't honestly imagine what I would choose. My only frames of reference are much wanted pregnancies so that is probably the root of my (own personal) inner conflict.

I am sorry I missed your earlier comments. I certainly would not have wanted to offend you and I'm very sorry if I did.

[lilith]

Yes, you are probably right. They probably did choose an extreme example of people to interview.

I would not even say that those are necessarily MY reproductive preferences. I have never been in that situation so I can't honestly imagine what I would choose. My only frames of reference are much wanted pregnancies so that is probably the root of my (own personal) inner conflict.

I am sorry I missed your earlier comments. I certainly would not have wanted to offend you and I'm very sorry if I did.

I'm certainly not offended, I just like people to think about the fact that all sorts of women in all sorts of circumstances seek abortion for all sorts of reasons.

Thanks for listening to what imhad to say.

[OkToBeTakei]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... gures.html

There has been a jump in the proportion of women having repeat abortions to reach 36 per cent, equating to around 63,300 women, it has been found.

In 2010, 34 per cent of terminations were for women who had already undergone at least one.

This was the biggest rise ever recorded in one year, the figures from the Department of Health show.

Although the total number of women having an abortion has dropped for the last four years, the proportion of them having the procedure more than once has increased.

The figures also reveal that more women are having multiple terminations.

Related Articles

More women seek abortions to save money 14 Aug 2012

Christian sues NHS over 'totalitarian' stance on abortion 28 May 2012

NHS performed 24 abortions on three teenage girls 25 May 2012

Hundreds of teens have had two abortions: figures show 25 May 2012

Cut legal abortion limit says Health Secretary 06 Oct 2012

NHS 'spends £1m on carrying out repeat abortions' 14 May 2012

Last year 434 women had at least their fifth abortion, a number that has risen steadily since 2007.

Campaigners said the rise in repeat abortions was 'particularly disturbing'.

The figures will raise fears that abortion is being used as form of contraception and doctors and nurses are not doing enough to counsel women about family planning methods when they request a termination.

It is thought around £1m is spent on repeat abortions every week.

Across England one in four repeat abortions to women under the age of 25 were repeat abortions. In North East Lincolnshire almost half of abortions carried out on women in this age group were for at least the second time.

Overall the figures show a slight increase in the number of women born in England and Wales having an abortion to reach 189,931 in 2011.

The abortion rate peaked in 2007 and has dropped since then but remains more than double that of 1970.

The figures also show the abortion rate in under 16s, below the age of sexual consent, has dropped from 3.9 per 1,000 girls in 2010 to 3.4 per 1,000 last year.

However this masked a wide variation with nearly eight girls under the age of 16 per 1,000 in Southwark having an abortion compared with two per 1,000 in nearby Kensington and Chelsea.

Michaela Aston from the anti-abortion group, Life, said: "We should be shocked and concerned by these latest statistics, especially given the apparent decline in overall conception rates in 2011, which means that the proportion of all pregnancies that end in abortion has risen considerably.

"This is despite contraception being more widely available than ever before.

“It is particularly disturbing that repeat abortions rose again, with 36 per cent of women seeking abortion having had at least one previous abortion. This is a clear indication that the original intent and spirit of the Abortion Act is being widely flouted and ignored.â€

Abortion services have been under scrutiny after the Daily Telegraph revealed doctors were agreeing to perform abortions on the basis of the gender of the feotus, which is illegal in Britain.

Julie Bentley, chief executive of the fpa, formerly the Family Planning Association, said: “Although there’s been a very slight increase, the number of abortions hasn’t changed significantly in the past few years and this is to be welcomed.

"However we do know that cracks are beginning to appear in contraception services. Shockingly some parts of the NHS deliberately ban women from having certain contraceptive methods and there are over three million women who don’t have access to comprehensive services.

"If we are going to bring down abortion numbers, this needs to change. Contraception is an essential not a luxury.â€

A spokesman for the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), said of repeat abortions: "We are talking about very small numbers overall, and that the women who are in this situation are generally leading very difficult and chaotic lives in which unwanted pregnancy is only one of a number of difficulties.

"There are no easy answers here, these women need all the support they can get but ultimately they cannot be compelled to accept an (contraceptive) implant or a coil – and there would be ethical implications of doing so.

"The number of women having more than one abortion in England and Wales is in keeping with other developed countries – and indeed lower than countries such as Sweden.

"It is reflective of the fact that women expect to be sexually active these days throughout their reproductive lifetimes – and may have an unwanted pregnancy as a young woman and then again once they have completed their families or because a problem is detected with a wanted pregnancy."

She added that because women are putting off motherhood into their 30s and 40s they are sexually active and using contraception for a longer period meaning there is a greater risk overall of it failing.

Public Health Minister Anne Milton said: "Having an abortion can be a very difficult and traumatic experience so we want the number of women having repeat abortions to reduce. It is very important that every woman who has an abortion is offered information about contraception.

"There are many types of contraception available to suit women's needs from the pill to long acting reversible contraceptives such as the contraceptive implant."

Granted the campaigners are Pro life. I would ignore their opinion. What would concern me is the bolded.

[formergothardite]

So I guess the pro-lifers over there aren't too much better than the pro-lifers over here?

[OkToBeTakei]

So I guess the pro-lifers over there aren't too much better than the pro-lifers over here?

Pro-lifers in my view aren't better wherever they are. I would say it is less of an issue due to the Abortion Act dating from 1967. Obviously there is some and generally always to answer on statistics, but on the whole compared to the US very little.

Read this and thought I hope the Duggars come here for some ASBOs :lol:

http://www.lynnnews.co.uk/news/latest-n ... n-1-533065

Late autumn last year a Conservative minister mentioned that he may at some point bring before the House of Commons a 'debate' to open discussion on reducing the 24 week limit. His own party leader essentially told him to shut up. It rears it's head once in a while.

[Iokaste]

So I guess the pro-lifers over there aren't too much better than the pro-lifers over here?

"Pro-lifers" are bad where ever they are, I've started using the term "Anti-choicers" as I think it much better describes what their real agenda is.

[formergothardite]

"Pro-lifers" are bad where ever they are, I've started using the term "Anti-choicers" as I think it much better describes what their real agenda is.

I usually do to, but in this thread a pro-lifer from over the pond said that the pro-life movement was "gentler". I asked her what that meant, but she never answered. I thought maybe it was more of a help women keep babies they want instead of trying to stop abortion.

I have to say, as much as I make fun of jericho, he is the only anti-choice person who has ever come here who could defend his beliefs in any sort of logical way. One of the many, many reasons I left the whole anti-choice movement was because I wanted to be able to defend what I was saying using a logical argument, and I just couldn't. Once I started looking at what saying "abortion kills babies" really means, I couldn't defend it and really, even most anti-choicers don't want to defend what that actually means.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Abortion WAS used as birth control in the former Soviet Union, which had the world's highest abortion rate. Abortion rates have been dropping in the past 20 years, but are dropping in some areas faster than others.

Here's a good study, comparing the rates of abortion decrease in various areas with contraception policies and usage:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... 0049986#s3

Not surprisingly, the more contraception use goes up, the more abortion rates go down.

[BlondeAgent007]

this won't make me popular... i think women who are under 18 having an abortion should have to inform their parents.

his doesn't mean that they need their consent, just that they are aware. An abortion is an invasive medical procedure that could have complications. If it was any other medical procedure, you would be required to obtain parental consent. I also believe there are young women who might feel pressured to abort because of their age. i definitely think medical professionals encourage young pregnant women to abort more often than, say, an older woman. Having that communication opened with their parents may allow them to weigh their options more critically.

i dont think this is punishing women for being women. as a woman myself, it just so happens i am the sex that can get pregnant. if i want the life i have planned for myself, i simply have to be responsible. no point in crying foul, "but what about men?!". no matter how unfair that is, it doesnt change the reality that pregnancy issues will always be my problem first and foremost. the flip side is that i have control of how many children i have and when i have them, and what the outcome will be when i have a pregnancy. men dont have to worry about pregnancy, but they also have no rights over which pregnancies go to term and which are ended. because its not their body.

[2xx1xy1JD]

this won't make me popular... i think women who are under 18 having an abortion should have to inform their parents.

his doesn't mean that they need their consent, just that they are aware. An abortion is an invasive medical procedure that could have complications. If it was any other medical procedure, you would be required to obtain parental consent. I also believe there are young women who might feel pressured to abort because of their age. i definitely think medical professionals encourage young pregnant women to abort more often than, say, an older woman. Having that communication opened with their parents may allow them to weigh their options more critically.

i dont think this is punishing women for being women. as a woman myself, it just so happens i am the sex that can get pregnant. if i want the life i have planned for myself, i simply have to be responsible. no point in crying foul, "but what about men?!". no matter how unfair that is, it doesnt change the reality that pregnancy issues will always be my problem first and foremost. the flip side is that i have control of how many children i have and when i have them, and what the outcome will be when i have a pregnancy. men dont have to worry about pregnancy, but they also have no rights over which pregnancies go to term and which are ended. because its not their body.

I disagree.

How do we know how all parents will react?

If the parents had cultivated the sort of relationship with their daughter in which she felt comfortable coming to them with this information, then she would have gone to them.

If a girl says that she is scared to tell her parents, what then? Do we trust her, or require her to prove that her fears have a basis? What sort of legal hoops will she have to jump through, and how long will it take?

How many girls will be scared off by the whole process, and decide to avoid official routes to a legal abortion? What are the risks if girls order pills online, travel out of state or try other DIY methods? How many may simply run away? Teens in general are known for taking risks.

There are better ways to deal with issues of pressure and complete medical information. You can have social workers available to ensure that proper informed consent is given and that the girl is aware of what her options are. With electronic medical records, you can get the girl to consent to release of her medical information from her primary health care provider.

[BlondeAgent007]

I think it's absolutely ridiculous that a young woman can get an abortion without parental knowledge, but not her ears pierced. What's to stop a teenager from getting a tattoo or a nose job if they're allowed autonomy for a serious procedure like an abortion?

If a girl is too scared to tell her parents something like this, she needs somebody in her corner. A counselor or mediator could be the one to inform and speak to the parents. If the girl faces excommunication over an issue like this, there are probably reasons for outside help to be involved.

There's no perfect answer to this, but I do think it is something that parents of minor children need to know.

[Minerva]

this won't make me popular... i think women who are under 18 having an abortion should have to inform their parents.

his doesn't mean that they need their consent, just that they are aware. An abortion is an invasive medical procedure that could have complications. If it was any other medical procedure, you would be required to obtain parental consent. I also believe there are young women who might feel pressured to abort because of their age. i definitely think medical professionals encourage young pregnant women to abort more often than, say, an older woman. Having that communication opened with their parents may allow them to weigh their options more critically.

i dont think this is punishing women for being women. as a woman myself, it just so happens i am the sex that can get pregnant. if i want the life i have planned for myself, i simply have to be responsible. no point in crying foul, "but what about men?!". no matter how unfair that is, it doesnt change the reality that pregnancy issues will always be my problem first and foremost. the flip side is that i have control of how many children i have and when i have them, and what the outcome will be when i have a pregnancy. men dont have to worry about pregnancy, but they also have no rights over which pregnancies go to term and which are ended. because its not their body.

I've had the option of complete medical privacy since I was 16, so your experience is not universal.

The problem with parental notification is that either it makes no difference because you've got a good relationship with your daughter and she tells you herself, or she's afraid to tell you or just wants some privacy and she gets a judicial bypass and the only difference is that she has the abortion later and the process is more traumatic. When there are no judicial bypasses, or when they're too hard to get, girls self-abort and sometimes they die. Abortions aren't the same as any other surgery, because while no one punishes their kid for needing their wisdom teeth removed, there's a good chance that a girl will be rightly afraid to go tell her parents about an abortion. Putting girls' safety first will look different depending on how politicized a specific medicine or surgery is, and depending on how necessary it is. No one has died or been seriously injured because they were afraid to access to a piercer. A clinic-appointed patient advocate is a good idea if a girl is coming in without her parents, but having an advocate tell her parents won't make her any safer once the advocate has left.

[BlondeAgent007]

I will definitely agree my idea has its holes. I don't quite know how to fill them all in. I also think parents should be encouraged to take their daughters to an OBGYN when they start menstruation. The whole stigma against teenagers going to the gyno needs to end. I think having a doctor to dispense information is much more beneficial than a health teacher in a classroom full of peers.

I used 18 because that is the usual age of emancipation medically to my knowledge in my area. If it is different in yours, or there is a special circumstance, then that would also apply.

I did have a friend who pierced her own belly button unsuccessfully. She didn't have a tool to pinch her skin together and ended up missing the top of the belly button. She wasn't seriously injured, but it could have gotten infected for sure.

[yewchapel]

I don't think I'm conservative in any way - I'm both fiscally left wing and socially liberal. Left wing and liberal don't mean the same thing, but I think I am both.

[JenniferJuniper]

I will definitely agree my idea has its holes. I don't quite know how to fill them all in. I also think parents should be encouraged to take their daughters to an OBGYN when they start menstruation. The whole stigma against teenagers going to the gyno needs to end. I think having a doctor to dispense information is much more beneficial than a health teacher in a classroom full of peers.

I used 18 because that is the usual age of emancipation medically to my knowledge in my area. If it is different in yours, or there is a special circumstance, then that would also apply.

States vary; in some states there is no requirement for minors to get parental consent. In others, anyone under 18 needs the consent of both parents. In my state, only one parent need consent, and if a girl does not think she'll be able to get (or can't get) the consent of either, she can apply for judicial approval, and my understanding is that's not difficult to get.

Personally, I think age 16 makes sense, but I can live with one parent consenting provided there is another avenue if that consent isn't given. No girl should be forced to give birth just because her parents are anti-choice.

[wtfrenchtoast]

I will definitely agree my idea has its holes. I don't quite know how to fill them all in. I also think parents should be encouraged to take their daughters to an OBGYN when they start menstruation. The whole stigma against teenagers going to the gyno needs to end. I think having a doctor to dispense information is much more beneficial than a health teacher in a classroom full of peers.

I used 18 because that is the usual age of emancipation medically to my knowledge in my area. If it is different in yours, or there is a special circumstance, then that would also apply.

I did have a friend who pierced her own belly button unsuccessfully. She didn't have a tool to pinch her skin together and ended up missing the top of the belly button. She wasn't seriously injured, but it could have gotten infected for sure.

So what would have happened if it wasn't a piercing your friend wanted, but an abortion? She would have likely been way more seriously injured had she tried to do that herself. I agree with other posters who say you can't compare parental consent to piercing or other surgeries, because nothing is as emotionally charged as abortion. Plus, a teenager's quality of life isn't going to suffer if she isn't able to get that piercing. The same is not true for an abortion. A piercing is a want, some would say a luxury. An abortion is basically a necessity.

[OkToBeTakei]

States vary; in some states there is no requirement for minors to get parental consent. In others, anyone under 18 needs the consent of both parents. In my state, only one parent need consent, and if a girl does not think she'll be able to get (or can't get) the consent of either, she can apply for judicial approval, and my understanding is that's not difficult to get.

Personally, I think age 16 makes sense, but I can live with one parent consenting provided there is another avenue if that consent isn't given. No girl should be forced to give birth just because her parents are anti-choice.

In the UK it is 16. Consent of two doctors and their professional judgement that the minor is aware of the situation. I would imagine like most things it would not be a simple route and counselling is always offered and I would like to think more so in the young. From what I have read counselling does involve trying to involve a parent or trusted adult in the minor's situation. Not every child has one involved parent never mind two and circumstances can be so varied and tragic that all avenues need to be 'open' per se. Many circumstances might dictate that actually informing a 'parent' may be to the detriment of the minor. I think like in almost every other aspect of abortion it is an individual situation and not an all or nothing situation.

I disagree about taking my say 11, 12 year old to an OBGYN. I do not see what stigma is attached. What would the benefit of this be?

[BlondeAgent007]

I never said consent. I just said knowledge of the procedure. I think that if in all other circumstances, the child would need consent, then the parent at least has a right to know about it, even if they can't do anything about it. If a girl faces such serious consequences that this would ruin her life, then chances are she wasn't safe there to begin with, and somebody should have already stepped in.

I think an initial appointment to have a talk about menstruation, learn to do a breast exam, get comfortable with a doctor, etc, would be helpful. When I was in high school, girls didn't like to admit they had gone to the gyno. It was synonymous for "I am sexually active and on birth control." There are more reasons to go to a gyno than birth control or pregnancy.

[OkToBeTakei]

I never said consent. I just said knowledge of the procedure. I think that if in all other circumstances, the child would need consent, then the parent at least has a right to know about it, even if they can't do anything about it. If a girl faces such serious consequences that this would ruin her life, then chances are she wasn't safe there to begin with, and somebody should have already stepped in.

I think an initial appointment to have a talk about menstruation, learn to do a breast exam, get comfortable with a doctor, etc, would be helpful. When I was in high school, girls didn't like to admit they had gone to the gyno. It was synonymous for "I am sexually active and on birth control." There are more reasons to go to a gyno than birth control or pregnancy.

Ah ok. Well where I live your common or garden GP prescribes birth control so that stigma would not exist. If my daughter chooses to tell her friends that was the reason for a visit that would be her choice. I think though that menstruation is a big enough change for young teens without throwing all the gynae/woman's health issues at once. I think that type of education starts way earlier for some issues and continues throughout a woman's life.

[JenniferJuniper]

I think an initial appointment to have a talk about menstruation, learn to do a breast exam, get comfortable with a doctor, etc, would be helpful. When I was in high school, girls didn't like to admit they had gone to the gyno. It was synonymous for "I am sexually active and on birth control." There are more reasons to go to a gyno than birth control or pregnancy.

I'm not sure where you live, but I have teenage daughters and this is all pretty standard stuff.

[2xx1xy1JD]

In Ontario, Canada, there is no specified age of medical consent - for both adults and minors, the test is whether the patient has the mental capacity to understand the risk and benefits of the procedure, as well as the risks of not doing the procedure.

If a child did not have the mental capacity (either a mental disability, or possibly a very young girl), someone would need to make the decision for her. Ordinarily, that would be done by the parents, but if she expressed concern it may be possible to get another substitute decisions maker (such as the Office of the Public Guardian and Trustee, I suppose).

I believe that most normal teens do in fact have the mental capacity to understand the risks/benefits of medical procedures, including abortion.

Tatoos and nose jobs are cosmetic procedures, with no medical benefit. I'm fine with the law requiring that someone be 18 for cosmetic procedures.

We know that not all families are perfect and supportive, and that disclosure would cause problems for a certain percentage of teens - whether it be abuse, being kicked out of the house, or other problems. You are putting those girls at risk - risk of punishment or worse from parents, risk of a DIY abortion if they are too scared to disclose, risk of later-term abortion if the legal procedures take too long, and even risk of undisclosed pregnancies and possible infanticide.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I never said consent. I just said knowledge of the procedure. I think that if in all other circumstances, the child would need consent, then the parent at least has a right to know about it, even if they can't do anything about it. If a girl faces such serious consequences that this would ruin her life, then chances are she wasn't safe there to begin with, and somebody should have already stepped in.

I think an initial appointment to have a talk about menstruation, learn to do a breast exam, get comfortable with a doctor, etc, would be helpful. When I was in high school, girls didn't like to admit they had gone to the gyno. It was synonymous for "I am sexually active and on birth control." There are more reasons to go to a gyno than birth control or pregnancy.

There were a lot of teens in my case load when I worked for a child protection agency. Teens, for various reasons, don't always disclose abuse. Some are scared of the consequences with their family, some just want to stay with their family until they can move out. Other teens sometimes want to return home, even if there has been conflict and/or abuse, because they can't stand living in foster or group homes. We had a number of kids bouncing in and out of care, as well as a number of chronic runaways. The agency wouldn't get involved at all if the teens were over 16 - to flee a bad home situation, they have no other choice but to go to shelters for homeless youth. In other situations, girls don't necessarily feel safe enough to make a disclosure, or don't even know the full extent of the danger that they face. There have been teen girls subject to honor killings in my area. After the fact, friends said that these girls would secretly change at school and had some issues at home, but nobody had picked up on the seriousness of the risk.

I support not only allowing abortions without requiring parental notification, but also having teen clinics (esp. in high schools), where teens can get information on sexual topics, arrange exams, access birth control and get information and testing re STDs. As I said, the most effective way to reduce the abortion rate is to increase the rate of contraception use, and you'll do that more effectively if teens can access it from knowledgeable sources, with maximum accessibility and privacy.

In my area, going to an OB/Gyn requires a referral from a family doctor. A competent family doctor can explain puberty, breast self-exams, etc. A teen who is not sexually active doesn't need a full pelvic exam if there are no unusual symptoms.

[Minerva]

I never said consent. I just said knowledge of the procedure. I think that if in all other circumstances, the child would need consent, then the parent at least has a right to know about it, even if they can't do anything about it. If a girl faces such serious consequences that this would ruin her life, then chances are she wasn't safe there to begin with, and somebody should have already stepped in.

Parents don't have any rights over their teenagers' bodies. Knowing their teen's medical history can help parents advocate for them better should they end up in the hospital, but they don't have a right to know it because it isn't their body.

It's possible for parents to be vehemently anti-choice without being abusive. No one would have "stepped in" in that situation, yet their daughter could still reasonably be afraid of abuse beginning when they find out. Certain forms of abuse, like beating your child, aren't illegal and wouldn't warrant someone stepping in, yet I could see my teenage self taking cow medication to avoid a beating. Keep in mind too that teenagers don't always weigh risks the way adults do. Even if they're just going to be grounded for a month, they might think that's worth risking their health. They might also not realize the risks of taking pills they bought off the internet or of having someone hit them in the abdomen.