People don't go to church because...of the people in church

[LucySnowe]

http://www.thelutheran.org/article/arti ... e_id=11131

The No. 1 thing that keeps people away from the church is the people who are in the church.

Outside of our doors, there is a multitude of people who have been hurt by people in the church. They have been judged for not looking the way we wanted them to look. They have been judged for making mistakes and for choosing to live lives that look different from ours. They have heard the people who worship on Sunday say hateful things on Monday. They have witnessed the followers of the Prince of Peace spreading malicious gossip against their "brothers and sisters."

It's not that people outside the church have low expectations of Christians. It's the opposite. They expect us to actually live out the things we proclaim on Sunday. They expect us to love our neighbor, care for the least of these and love our enemies.

They have high expectations for us, and we have disappointed them. Instead they have been insulted, hurt and broken by us.

[BravaAmica]

http://www.thelutheran.org/article/article.cfm?article_id=11131

Quit while you're ahead, I say!

[Anxious Girl]

Wasn't it Confucious (sp?) who said something the lines of, "Do as you teach?" If Christian bishops, priests and theologians teach to not judge others but to follow Jesus because we're all sinners and think it's so hard to follow, why do they teach it? When I studied Confucious in middle school, he became my favorite philosopher! When I think of Jesus saying "Do not judge others," I think of Confucious's above line for some reason. Off topic: It would be great if somebody here could reccomend any books on him, it's been a long time since I threw out my middle school history work... :whistle:

[uber frau]

Well, I don't go to church because, quite frankly, I have far more interesting things than participate in a service to worship a being I don't believe in. The fact that so many of the.followers of Jesus are such.sanctimonious wankers is just a bonus.

[nokidsmom]

The reason why I don't go to church anymore is because, to be honest, I am "maxed out" when it comes to church and church-related stuff. I grew up in a religious household and we diligently had to go to church every Sunday, I did the whole 2 years worth of confirmation thing, plus participate in church activities. Then my dad became Church Council President for a few years, so then we had to participate in all this stuff because of that and if we didn't it would look bad. Parents made my youngest sister go to Lutheran high school even though the public school was a better option for her. Add to going to a church-affliated college, that while it provided a good education, I had to deal with a lot of "Jesus freaks" and fundie types so by the time I moved out of the house, I quit going. I was just tired of it all. Just tired.

Do agree with the reasons stated in the article, however. My family's heavy involvement with the church revealed how much of the church membership was very judgemental and just all around a PITA.

[Anxious Girl]

PITA? :think:

[nokidsmom]

PITA? :think:

PITA = "Pain In The Ass"

[Guest Anonymous]

They have been judged for making mistakes and for choosing to live lives that look different from ours.

:think: I am so jaded, when I first read this I assumed it was referring to the gay "lifestyle choice". Then it occurred to me that it could just as easily refer to single motherhood, premarital sex, use of birth control, abortion, cohabitation, being on welfare... Ah, there are so many options!

Edited for tweaks. I changed 'living in sin' to 'cohabitation', just in case it wasn't clear that I was being ridiculous.

[nokidsmom]

:think: I am so jaded, when I first read this I assumed it was referring to the gay "lifestyle choice". Then it occurred to me that it could just as easily refer to single motherhood, premarital sex, use of birth control and abortion, living in sin, being on welfare... Ah, there are so many options!

My exact thoughts as well. At first I thought of the "gay lifestyle" but it applies to a huge list of other things as well. Some of them fairly minor such as going to the wrong school or having to work on Christmas because you are a medical professional and people don't stop being sick just because it's a holiday. My mother got a lot of grief for that one when she became a nurse and wasn't around to attend church as much because she was at the hospital caring for the sick and injured. Oh the horror!

Sorry to rant...I guess this thread is dredging up some bad memories for me.

[Beb]

"Church" is a social sanctuary created as a closed society for the sanctimoneous and self righteous.

Compliance is expected and there is no room for interlopers.

"Church" has nothing to do with worship.

[ADoyle90815]

My exact thoughts as well. At first I thought of the "gay lifestyle" but it applies to a huge list of other things as well. Some of them fairly minor such as going to the wrong school or having to work on Christmas because you are a medical professional and people don't stop being sick just because it's a holiday. My mother got a lot of grief for that one when she became a nurse and wasn't around to attend church as much because she was at the hospital caring for the sick and injured. Oh the horror!

Sorry to rant...I guess this thread is dredging up some bad memories for me.

That's true, especially in Mormonism, where people who have to work on Sundays face judgment, even if those professions are considered necessary such as medical professionals and law enforcement. Mormons also judge those who decide not to spread their cold or flu to the ward by staying home on Sunday, as they send people to find out why someone wasn't in church. I understand Mormons don't believe in original sin, but it could be said that they do in a way, as babies arrive when they're ready, and they have no concept of the Mormon Sabbath. After all, babies born later in the week means that the mom and baby stay in the hospital sometimes until Sunday, especially in the case of an emergency C-section. They also judge people based on what they wear, and if they have non-Mormon family members who have no desire to convert.

[LadyFriend]

The opposite of this was true in my experience with the Catholic Church. Many, if not most, of the people and families that I knew growing up still go to Catholic mass. The people are generally perfectly normal. There was very little shaming among peers (explicitly, at least). It was basically a social club like any other. I continue to love and associate with these church members.

The problem is the Church. The organization and it's lust for power is the problem. The BS they preach and the dogma they hold up as perfection is repugnant to most of what I believe about people and the world. The organization and it's tenets are the problem...not the people.

The membership of the church was never a problem for me...it's the leadership and the harmful nonsense that they teach.

ETA: this is my specific experience with the Catholic Church that I grew up in...I know this is not the case for most other denominations.

[fundiefun]

The opposite of this was true in my experience with the Catholic Church. Many, if not most, of the people and families that I knew growing up still go to Catholic mass. The people are generally perfectly normal. There was very little shaming among peers (explicitly, at least). It was basically a social club like any other. I continue to love and associate with these church members.

The problem is the Church. The organization and it's lust for power is the problem. The BS they preach and the dogma they hold up as perfection is repugnant to most of what I believe about people and the world. The organization and it's tenets are the problem...not the people.

The membership of the church was never a problem for me...it's the leadership and the harmful nonsense that they teach.

ETA: this is my specific experience with the Catholic Church that I grew up in...I know this is not the case for most other denominations.

That is what made me realize I can no longer take part in a denomination that is so power hungry they want to take away family planning rights, keep marriage "traditional", and basically try to force their "christian" ideals on the rest of the country when a lot of people aren't even Christian. They think that if people would give up birth control and stick to traditional marriage that society would be perfect. They honestly blame the invention of the birth control pill for the high divorce rates and such. Like I used to love being Catholic but now I find it complete utter bs and I don't regret leaving.

[PennySycamore]

Wasn't it Confucious (sp?) who said something the lines of, "Do as you teach?" If Christian bishops, priests and theologians teach to not judge others but to follow Jesus because we're all sinners and think it's so hard to follow, why do they teach it? When I studied Confucious in middle school, he became my favorite philosopher! When I think of Jesus saying "Do not judge others," I think of Confucious's above line for some reason. Off topic: It would be great if somebody here could reccomend any books on him, it's been a long time since I threw out my middle school history work... :whistle:

I minored in East Asian history, but that was so far in the past that my resources might be out of date. I still have on my bookshelf Classical China by William McNeill and Jean Sedlar and Anthology of Chinese Literature, volune I, edited by Cyril Birch. Wikipedia's article has a bibliography that might interest you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius/url]

[LadyFriend]

That is what made me realize I can no longer take part in a denomination that is so power hungry they want to take away family planning rights, keep marriage "traditional", and basically try to force their "christian" ideals on the rest of the country when a lot of people aren't even Christian. They think that if people would give up birth control and stick to traditional marriage that society would be perfect. They honestly blame the invention of the birth control pill for the high divorce rates and such. Like I used to love being Catholic but now I find it complete utter bs and I don't regret leaving.

The interesting thing to me is that the majority of Catholics that I know do not agree with those positions. I have only ever met one Catholic in real life who actually disapproves of birth control. (I know that there are plenty who do...my experience might be skewed because I am from a relatively highly educated area, selection bias, etc). Some of the people I know harbor hostilities toward LGBT... folk, but I think that is more about social attitudes (that I can see changing) than religion. Again...this is a specific sub-set, but I feel like this experience is likely common among Catholics.

I never really loved being Catholic...I kinda just was. I loved the social justice ethic that was instilled by the Church (although I have no doubt I would have gotten that from my parents even without the dogma). I still love the people, but I now see the organization as quasi-evil. They cause so much harm that they have zero moral cred in my book.

[J'ean Skirt]

Mom and dad took us to mass every Sunday and Holy Day. All the while mom spent her time ranting about how horrible the monsignor was. She despised him, but refused to consider a different parish or not going to church. That had more than a little to do with me turning my back on the Catholic church in my early 20s.

To be fair to my mom, Msgr. was a bit of a corrupt SOB. One of the associate pastors told me that Msgr. had ordered a piano for the new theater space in one of the parish buildings. And that he'd kept the new piano (ordered and paid for with parish money) at his townhouse and taken the piano from his townhouse and given it to the parish. He also was extremely generous with his housekeeper, even paying for her daughter to go to college.

Yeah, make of that what you will. :shock:

But I really bought into the Catholic way, and it was when I finally realized I could no longer believe in transubstantiation that I considered myself no longer a practicing Catholic. Even then, I couldn't see how other Christian religions were an option. I was indoctrinated enough to believe it was Roman Catholic or nothing.

I've mellowed a bit and understand other denominations better now. And I've gotten much, much more outspoken about the abuses and evils of the Catholic leadership. I am not yet in a place where I'll blame the rank-and-file worshipers, but that's as much because my father is devout and he is a kind, generous, honest man.

[Bloo]

Because my teaching job barely pays the bills, I have a part time job directing children's music at a local Disciples of Christ church. I was skeptical when I first took the job, as I was raised Catholic and had burnt out a bit on church, especially church people. But fortunately, this church is very welcoming to all walks of life, does a lot of work in the community without proselytizing, and they're genuinely nice people who seem to want to live as Jesus did. Just today I had a talk with one of the congregants about the musical The Book of Mormon and how missions that just involve reading from Scripture turn people away from Christ; to have any hope of helping, you have to actually, well, DO stuff.

[jockosmom]

The reason why I don't go to church anymore is because, to be honest, I am "maxed out" when it comes to church and church-related stuff. I grew up in a religious household and we diligently had to go to church every Sunday, I did the whole 2 years worth of confirmation thing, plus participate in church activities. Then my dad became Church Council President for a few years, so then we had to participate in all this stuff because of that and if we didn't it would look bad. Parents made my youngest sister go to Lutheran high school even though the public school was a better option for her. Add to going to a church-affliated college, that while it provided a good education, I had to deal with a lot of "Jesus freaks" and fundie types so by the time I moved out of the house, I quit going. I was just tired of it all. Just tired.

Do agree with the reasons stated in the article, however. My family's heavy involvement with the church revealed how much of the church membership was very judgemental and just all around a PITA.

This sounds much like my childhood experience also.

[RosyDaisy]

Personally I go to church for worship. I don't let other people ruin one of the best parts of my life. One day the things they say and do will come back to bite them.

[Guest Anonymous]

http://www.thelutheran.org/article/article.cfm?article_id=11131

I think this is just another example of a church leader doing an inept piece of 'research' designed to give the results he wants, in order to guilt-trip a congregation into doing things the way he wants. He used social media to ask people why they don't go to church.... what questions did he ask? what were the demographics of the population who responded? I smell bullshit.

It is all very reminiscent of the 'seeker friendly' crusaders who think the pews would be filled if only the church wore trendy clothes and played loud music.

There are all sorts of reasons people don't go to church, not least because many people simply don't believe in the Christian god or want to spend their lives enmeshed with religion. Church leaders can pull all the PR stunts they want, but some of us are having none of it. Want to appeal to the people on the fringe? Do some real research and don't treat them as a homogeneous group. Want to change the existing members into something they are not? Go pull the plank out of your own eye. Or go screw yourself. Church leaders are one of the most noxious groups of people on earth to me, when they pull these kind of stunts.

[debrand]

They are missing several important points. I suppose that the writer believes that if more church goers were nice, more people would remain in the pews. And to an extent they are correct about church goers sometimes being the most annoying and hypocritical among us. Also, yes, Christians do get judged by outsiders. However, some Christians present themselves as the epitome of kindness, compassion and joy. Of course, people are going to notice when Christians act like jerks. The main point is that most Christians believe that the Holy Spirit somehow changes them once they are saved. However, the fact that the writer had to announce to Christians that they shouldn't be jerks in church makes the Holy Spirit seem imaginary.

The reason that I don't go to church is because I don't believe in god. Also, evangelism is pretty invasive and there are Christians who don't mind being sneaky about their evangelism attempts.

[alysee]

That is only one point of a couple easons why I don't go to church.

1) The people- backstabbing, fake sweetness(hate the sin not the sinner...I get stabby just thinking of that saying)

2) The teachings/beliefs

3) The lack of faith

[thetabmeister]

I believe in God, and I would love to fellowship with people who also believe in Him (and not in religion or standards, just God). That said, since leaving fundiedom my husband and I haven't been able to find any church that actually focuses on loving God, loving people, and studying what the Bible actually says. So we are currently unchurched as well. I miss being in church because as a child I was just so used to it; it's like a security blanket. But I can't keep closing my eyes to all the things I disagree with and the blatant errors made by the churches in my area, and I certainly don't want to make my children used to going to an establishment with which we have such disagreement. I am starting to wonder if I will mourn the loss of the cozy "belonging" I used to feel as a fundie for, well, forever. smh

[pixydust]

Hmm, i didn't leave church because of the people...that was actually the hardest part! It was the leaders, the pastors, teachers, etc and what they were teaching!

[moodygirl86]

Only times I've set foot in a church were for my brother's wedding, and then my niece and nephew's christenings. SIL doesn't believe in God but she does have a fondness for tradition. None of my family are particularly religious and I'm personally on the fence regarding the existence of a higher power, but if there is one, He/She should be able to hear your prayers wherever you are. In England, we're quite multicultural in general, but most people here don't really shout about their theological beliefs. Probably the great British reserve, but faith is generally considered a private thing.