Papa John's the new Chick-Fil-A

[Buzzard]

So where's the line for small business vs. large business if franchises count as small businesses simply because they're owned by a local person? Aren't most fast food restaurants franchises? In my opinion, a business attached to a nationally recognized brand name (franchised or not) doesn't quite count as a small business. "Locally owned and operated", yes. "Small", no.

That being said, I'm still ordering from Papa Johns; no one else delivers a hot pizza and I refuse to turn on the oven for delivery food.

The way the law is written Buzzard inc DBA "Papa Johns at 123 mainstreet" is a small business and subject to the employee limit. Buzzard Inc is a business within itself so yes, almost all gas stations and fast food restaurants that are independently owned will qualify. Same goes for applebees, fridays etc.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Has anyone seen how the the $.15 a pizza number was calculated? And does it come out of franchise owner's pocket or the big Papa's (if it isn't attached to a pizza price)? I've seen numbers thrown around online and I guess I'm confused as to whether they are legitimate and how it all works. I'm hesitant to believe it if it's coming from the horse's ass, er, mouth.

We loved Papa John's when it first came to my city because it was by far the cheapest pizza you could get delivered and it was always hot and yummy. But it's slowly gone downhill and the last few times we've had it, it's been nasty and the toppings were few and far between. Plus we moved outside city limits and no one delivers here, and we've decided it's not worth driving to get when we could spend a little more at a local joint and get something so much better. We haven't had it in over a year and we don't miss it.

[FakePigtails]

I really, really don't understand the current conservative impulse to defend enormous businesses and very wealthy people from having to do something that should basically be an easy ethical decision to ensure that employees are treated fairly. Most conservatives I know are far from wealthy (maybe it's just my area?) - I mean, if they were very wealthy or actually making a lot of money, it would make more sense to me (it would still be pretty disgusting, but at least then it would be a matter of self-interest). But in many cases, it seems like these people are actively campaigning against basic measures to ensure people like themselves are treated fairly by people with far more resources.

I just don't get it - all I think is that people who are working in jobs, especially full-time, are entitled to fair living wages, decent safety conditions, sick time, and being able to afford health care. This is not (or should not) be a radical idea!

But we're all going to be wealthy business owners one day! I think there have been studies shown that a lot of people really think that. It's a shame throwing out basic ethical treatment of others goes with it.

[Buzzard]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/0 ... 52126.html

The numbers were floated here and applies to the employees of the national brand, not individual franchises. He said he'd raise prices to cover it. Its the individual chains that are laying people off.

edited to add a more recent article

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/ ... ation-day/

[Katiebug]

Papa Johns operates on a franchise basis, meaning that most locations are owned by a small business owner, just like a gas station. They pay the company for the right to be a papa johns so, to me, they are a small business and I will continue to order from them. Its not the delivery guy's fault that the guy that owns the brand lives in a castle.

Who is the crazy pizza guy that built his own town?

Exactly - in the US at least, Papa John's is a franchise. While some franchisees may own enough locations to not be considered a small business for purposes of health care reform, many may only own 1-2 shops and therefore would be considered small businesses based on number of employees. The same would go for many fast food and casual dining chains. Regardless, it won't cost the owner of Papa John's a damned thing unless they increased fees or changed pricing to the franchisees. It's a bullshit argument.

Crazy pizza guy is Tom Monaghan, founder of Domino's. He's a fundie Catholic who not only started his own university (Ave Maria) but started a town in which businesses wouldn't be allowed to sell contraceptives or porn. He used to own the Detroit Tigers, too. I think he sold off all of his business ventures like 20 years ago and has done all Catholic and pro-life "philanthrophy" since then.

[shesinsane]

Papa Johns' cheesesticks with bacon are amazingly delicious, but one cannot live on bacon cheesesticks alone. There's lots of other places for me to get my pizza (Dominos not included on that list).

Maybe if the Wizards score over 100 points and win a game I'll order from Papa Johns again (they have many 50% off day after the game deals, but a team that wins games is usually required). I usually tip $3 for a timely pizza, I'll tip $4 so the driver can get health insurance. :D

[WonderingInWA]

Sadly, my boys (ages 13 and 10) LOVE Papa John's and there is one just a mile from our house. But they are expensive and they also charge for delivery (a mile away -- really?) so I finally just had to put my foot down and we stopped ordering from them about a year ago. Pizza is cheap to make, so I'm not sure why they get away with charging so much for their product. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I needed one more reason to justify my keeping my kids from the pizza they so adore, and this is it!!!

[keen23]

Papa John's is the only real pizza choice within a 20 mile radius for me (sure, we have a Little Cesears and a Dominos, but those aren't edible options).

[BlackHawk]

Oh John Schnatter... I've met the man, worked for him in "catering" type events, and all I can say is he is an asshole to the highest extreme. Not even counting this BS.

He had no problem instituting a 1.50 - 2.00 delivery fee for each customer. He had no problem raising the prices of his pizza's during a recession. Yet he has a problem raising the price of a pizza .11 - .14? Seriously.

I have a problem with people saying that Papa Johns is a small business and all that bullshit. Perhaps it's because I live in KY, but c'mon, seriously? This man offers millions of free pizza's a year. This year alone he offered 2 million with the football shit he does, plus he offers the Papa Rewards now, which works very quickly to achieve free pizzas for individual families who order. It's ridiculous to say that offering a pizza for 20 cents more will bankrupt him and customers wouldn't be happy. Most people probably wouldn't have noticed a subtle increase, or would think it's inflation, as his pizzas go up every year.

That said, I don't plan to boycott (mostly because we don't order take away pizza!), but I do think it's silly that if someone says something negative about a republican run company that they must have their own appreciation day! Yet thousands of people boycott WalMart... c'mon right wingers, where's there appreciation day? What a crock of shit.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/07/papa-johns-obamacare-pizza_n_1752126.html

The numbers were floated here and applies to the employees of the national brand, not individual franchises. He said he'd raise prices to cover it. Its the individual chains that are laying people off.

edited to add a more recent article

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/ ... ation-day/

Thank you.

[Buzzard]

Oh John Schnatter... I've met the man, worked for him in "catering" type events, and all I can say is he is an asshole to the highest extreme. Not even counting this BS.

He had no problem instituting a 1.50 - 2.00 delivery fee for each customer. He had no problem raising the prices of his pizza's during a recession. Yet he has a problem raising the price of a pizza .11 - .14? Seriously.

I have a problem with people saying that Papa Johns is a small business and all that bullshit. Perhaps it's because I live in KY, but c'mon, seriously? This man offers millions of free pizza's a year. This year alone he offered 2 million with the football shit he does, plus he offers the Papa Rewards now, which works very quickly to achieve free pizzas for individual families who order. It's ridiculous to say that offering a pizza for 20 cents more will bankrupt him and customers wouldn't be happy. Most people probably wouldn't have noticed a subtle increase, or would think it's inflation, as his pizzas go up every year.

That said, I don't plan to boycott (mostly because we don't order take away pizza!), but I do think it's silly that if someone says something negative about a republican run company that they must have their own appreciation day! Yet thousands of people boycott WalMart... c'mon right wingers, where's there appreciation day? What a crock of shit.

Except that he said he WILL raise the prices up to .20 to comply and provide healthcare. He expects that some individual franchises will cut personnel to avoid it, that's not corporate. I have no problem with how he is handling this.

[linnea27]

I'm kinda glad there isn't a Papa Johns near me now. What a douche. There was an article on facebook a few days ago. The man lives in a CASTLE in Cali, with a 23 car garage, natural lake with drawbridge, pool, tennis court.

And he can't pay fifteen fucking cents for health care.

It's physically painful for me to comprehend.

and the left are apparently the greedy ones.

[BlackHawk]

Except that he said he WILL raise the prices up to .20 to comply and provide healthcare. He expects that some individual franchises will cut personnel to avoid it, that's not corporate. I have no problem with how he is handling this.

Perhaps we hear different news here, who knows. Instead of just raising the price, he is making a fuss. All over the place complaining how .20 will bankrupt him and cause employees to be laid off. How the consumer is getting the shit end of the stick and how .20 is Obamacare coming in to take your wallets. I have a problem with him making such a fuss over 20 fucking cents on a pizza.

But I am glad YOU have no problem with how he is handling this. Good for you.

[Coconut Flan]

For retail and services the US SBA has set the small business limit as $7M in receipts per year. Yes, $7M.

That they even bring this up as an issue is appalling. It's ridiculous to me that people can't even see enough to do right by their employees. They want to go back to the 1800s?

[doggie]

Of course a company making more profits is far more important then having healthy employees, I mean think of the long term goals here. Money equals good health bad.

these companies are coming under file for these lame policies and employees are starting to leave. lets hope they loose more then they gain.

[OkToBeTakei]

Except that he said he WILL raise the prices up to .20 to comply and provide healthcare. He expects that some individual franchises will cut personnel to avoid it, that's not corporate. I have no problem with how he is handling this.

So small business constitutes less than 25 in a workforce for say, a small franchise? They will receive large tax breaks for providing affordable healthcare for their employees. So providing their employees do not earn over $50k and they provide 50% of their healthcare premiums they receive 35% back in tax.

It is not I believe compulsory for this group, but an incentive to provide employees with affordable healthcare. I'm kind of rubbish at Maths but 20 cents on every pizza should cover the 15%.

The franchises with 50 or over employees will be penalised if they do not provide affordable healthcare for their employees. So they will cut staff. (I think it differs state to state) Now over 50 employees bigger business, bigger profit? 20 cents a pizza? But rather than provide any benefit to their employees they will sack them. In order to avoid paying.

You think this is ok?

[camdendayton]

Except that he said he WILL raise the prices up to .20 to comply and provide healthcare. He expects that some individual franchises will cut personnel to avoid it, that's not corporate. I have no problem with how he is handling this.

I couldn't care less what a Papa John's pizza costs (esp since I'm trying to eat gluten free.) I, and I think most people hear, do have a problem with his sky is falling rhetoric.

[Buzzard]

So small business constitutes less than 25 in a workforce for say, a small franchise? They will receive large tax breaks for providing affordable healthcare for their employees. So providing their employees do not earn over $50k and they provide 50% of their healthcare premiums they receive 35% back in tax.

It is not I believe compulsory for this group, but an incentive to provide employees with affordable healthcare. I'm kind of rubbish at Maths but 20 cents on every pizza should cover the 15%.

The franchises with 50 or over employees will be penalised if they do not provide affordable healthcare for their employees. So they will cut staff. (I think it differs state to state) Now over 50 employees bigger business, bigger profit? 20 cents a pizza? But rather than provide any benefit to their employees they will sack them. In order to avoid paying.

You think this is ok?

No. I have a problem with the franchisee cutting staff to get under the limit but that is not corporate, that is the franchisee.

[OkToBeTakei]

For retail and services the US SBA has set the small business limit as $7M in receipts per year. Yes, $7M.

That they even bring this up as an issue is appalling. It's ridiculous to me that people can't even see enough to do right by their employees. They want to go back to the 1800s?

I genuinely do not understand it. I know that is probably because I live in a country where in my lifetime Healthcare/Welfare is the norm. Maybe decades of this dilutes the righteous indignation that it seems to evoke in the US.

It's like those that have, feel like Robin is back robbing the rich to give to the poor and they are well pissed off about it.

[OkToBeTakei]

No. I have a problem with the franchisee cutting staff to get under the limit but that is not corporate, that is the franchisee.

No I don't get that. Papa John's IS the corporate. They are allowing the franchisee to do this. Quite conveniently.

[J'ean Skirt]

Frankly, I think employers who cut staff to get under the limit are bad business people. If you cut staff / hours in a way that doesn't support customer demand you're a fool. And you deserve what you get, and if that's less money or going out of business, have at it. The rhetoric doesn't bother me as much, he's just another loudmouth running his mouth. I'll believe the layoffs / hours cut / etc when I see them.

As a small business owner (well, it's just the two of us) I'm quite happy with the ACA. We're currently paying 2/3 of our mortgage payment a month for health insurance for the 2 of us. I'm waiting for the exchanges so we can look for plans that might be functional but not cost quite as much. I am also looking forward to being able to hire people and afford to be able to provide them with health insurance at something less than $12000 a year.

I've said it elsewhere, but $.15 a pizza is a small price to pay for not having someone sick making my food.

[J'ean Skirt]

No I don't get that. Papa John's IS the corporate. They are allowing the franchisee to do this. Quite conveniently.

I don't think the franchise agreement necessarily enforces workforce rules, but without seeing the agreement none of us can really comment on whether or not this is allowed by corporate.

[OkToBeTakei]

I don't think the franchise agreement necessarily enforces workforce rules, but without seeing the agreement none of us can really comment on whether or not this is allowed by corporate.

Very true. But I was meaning more in an ethical manner. As in they could conceivably absorb some of the cost. I know. Fanciful.

[slickcat79]

Very true. But I was meaning more in an ethical manner. As in they could conceivably absorb some of the cost. I know. Fanciful.

This is a factor for me. Schnatter and PJs corporate obviously have the money to absorb the cost, or coordinate the process of passing on the cost to the consumer. I'm sure the franchisees have to resign/renegotiate their contracts every now and again, so why not take the ACA into consideration? I'm sure that corporate raises the cost of a franchise on a regular basis to make sure their profits are intact. Does Schnatter ever wonder if getting the money to build a moat on his house will cause his franchisees to fire people?

I don't intend to boycott local stores unless PJs corporate institutes actual policies that I find objectionable. As it stands, it's just a guy throwing a tantrum because he has to do something that he doesn't want to do.

[dairyfreelife]

I'm not sure why this shocks people. Most CEOs are greedy assholes. Plenty of companies already don't provide insurance or good insurance claiming it's too expensive and all the while taking trips to Vegas and their entire famiy on cruises and owning massive homes, expensive cars and putting up a $75K retaining wall. Most employees in a pizza shop are part time workers who aren't getting any insurance from the company anyway, so he's whining for nothing.