'The Rape Thing' Does Not Excuse Abortions

[2xx1xy1JD]

The worst reasoning behind the abortion rape prohibition is the marginalization of such acts. The "incest is rare" and "rape almost never results in pregnancy" claims has nothing to do with the abortion debate. Abortion is about terminating a pre-existing pregnancy, not whether it's "rare" for pregnancies to result from nonconsensual sex. It doesn't matter if "the rape thing" is rare or usually don't result in pregnancy. The fact that it CAN and DOES means the question regarding a woman's right to an abortion that results from rape or incest is still relevant.

Exactly. Own your shit. If you would ban all abortion, then at least admit that there are situations where the consequences would be particularly bad for the women involved (and even for the fetuses, in cases like Treemon's).

Furthermore, why do people like to treat pregnancy like it's a wonderful, peaceful time? Pregnancy comes with its own risks. From a medical standpoint, early termination is safer than going through a pregnancy. The argument that abortion is a violent act can work the same way on a pregnancy. 9 months of pregnancy and the actual delivery can also be violent. There's tearing, hemorrhaging, even major surgery (C-section) with all the accompanying complications. Nothing about pregnancy, not it's termination or final delivery, is pleasant. The argument should focus on whether a woman should be allowed to make that decision to control how her body deals with a pregnancy. Should we tie down a woman and force her to have medical procedures done to "protect the unborn"? Should we jail women who refuse to care for the pregnancy because they really want to terminate it? Should we arrest women who are suspected to have had a hand in ending their pregnancy? Obamacare has nothing on how invasive criminalizing abortion can be.

[JesusFightClub]

Explain to me how some chief Republican strategist has not sent out an urgent memo saying:

"Do NOT, whatever you do, mention anything about rape before the election. If asked point blank, just change the topic and say, "you know, the real issue in this election is Obama's record on the economy..." and don't look back. In fact, try not to mention abortion at all, and absolutely stay away from mentioning anything about rape stats, incest stats, pregnancy risks or a woman's ability to get pregnant even if you need to cut out your own tongue."

Is it a lack of control over candidates, or a lack of desire to send such a memo?

A lack of Party discipline ;)

[emmiedahl]

Here is today's outrage, from that page -- Akin again:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/0 ... 59088.html

:shock:

Lots of crazy on that page. What is an emergency rape, btw? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/1 ... gency-rape

[2xx1xy1JD]

A lack of Party discipline ;)

That could be true. In Canada, Stephen Harper got flack for running a tight ship and practically duct taping the mouths of his caucas, but he kept much more of a lid on the social conservatives in his party.

[crazyforkate]

If I've asked this once, I've asked it a million times - where are the sane Republicans? Everyone I know personally who is a Republican, thinks this guy is a total embarrassment to the party. Why aren't they shutting this bullshit down and concentrating on the economy? No, I don't agree with their economic plans either, but it would get them out of hot water.

Then again, since I want them to lose...they should keep talking about social issues.

[Flummoxed by fundies]

Hi crazyforkate, there are sane republicans out there. We are here and you're right we are just as disgusted as you are over this ridiculous crap put out by these morons. They are an embarrassment. I'm pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro immigration. Pro separation of church and state, fearful of fundies agenda etc. I hope you don't lump us all in with some of the nut jobs in the party. Both political parties have extremists which is not the norm.

[Minerva]

In response, I was called a stupid bitch and told that there would be an exception for pregnancies that threaten the life of the mother. Lovely mix of misogyny and complete misreading of both my post and medical evidence, since my point was that ANY pregnancy could place serious demands on a woman's body, at any stage. I mean, I was suddenly placed on bedrest when preg with baby #2, I was bleeding from my incision for a full month after c-section #3, it was a friend of mine who had the spinal wear off during her c-section, and it was another friend who had the uterine rupture and emergency hysterectomy. These aren't random freak situations. We happen to all be happy with our children, but these things were part of the package of risks that we faced to have them. Forced pregnancy is truly intrusive, and we don't require that sort of self-sacrifice in other situations (for example, there in no law that requires healthy individuals to give blood, or register as organ donors, or even to get involved if they are a bystander instead of standing around just watching someone else die).

I was going to say, an exception for pregnancies that threaten the life of the pregnant person would apply to every pregnancy. No doctor can look at you, at any point in a pregnancy, and say "this will be an uncomplicated pregnancy and delivery". If I'm not willing to take that risk, I have the right to opt out, and I shouldn't have to wait until something goes wrong.

[crazyforkate]

Hi crazyforkate, there are sane republicans out there. We are here and you're right we are just as disgusted as you are over this ridiculous crap put out by these morons. They are an embarrassment. I'm pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro immigration. Pro separation of church and state, fearful of fundies agenda etc. I hope you don't lump us all in with some of the nut jobs in the party. Both political parties have extremists which is not the norm.

Good to see that there are people like you out there. My best friend is a Republican and ultimately chose not to vote because even though she vehemently disagreed with Obama, she couldn't bring herself to support the GOP in its current state. I am disgusted by all these ridiculous comments from various politicians, but it's heartening to see Republicans who don't fall for the bullshit.

[Inky]

Better they should open their mouth and let the crazy talk fly. At least that way you know who/what you are dealing with, or voting for. It would be much worse if they didn't talk about abortion until AFTER the election.

[Minerva]

Better they should open their mouth and let the crazy talk fly. At least that way you know who/what you are dealing with, or voting for. It would be much worse if they didn't talk about abortion until AFTER the election.

This. See Canadian anti-choice MPs.

[AddieBelle]

Someone needs to inform these assholes that not everyone who has an abortion does so because they don't want the baby. There are soooo many reasons why women have abortions and unless these guys become pregnant somehow they should have NO say about a woman's right to an abortion.

[galaxygirl]

Oh Tina...

If I've asked this once, I've asked it a million times - where are the sane Republicans? Everyone I know personally who is a Republican, thinks this guy is a total embarrassment to the party. Why aren't they shutting this bullshit down and concentrating on the economy? No, I don't agree with their economic plans either, but it would get them out of hot water.

Then again, since I want them to lose...they should keep talking about social issues.

I know several moderate Republicans who are voting Obama because they are disgusted by what the Republican party has become since the religious right took over.

[Cerdwin]

I am reading Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale (again) and I can only read it in small bites, because the things being said in the US at the moment are a little too close to the novel. I worry for you all, and then I worry because our Australian conservatives are creeping in the same direction. These people have made me agnostic, because if they are right and God is real then he is an asshole and I don't want any part of it.

[luckystone]

When did 'rape' become the Republican talking point of 2012? My God, what in the world is the world coming to???!!!!

I really don't understand how abortion is the biggest issue this election, it's ridiculous.

[Guest Anonymous]

If I've asked this once, I've asked it a million times - where are the sane Republicans? Everyone I know personally who is a Republican, thinks this guy is a total embarrassment to the party. Why aren't they shutting this bullshit down and concentrating on the economy? No, I don't agree with their economic plans either, but it would get them out of hot water.

Then again, since I want them to lose...they should keep talking about social issues.

"Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake"-Napoleon Bonaparte*

*Edited because I CAN spell Bonaparte

[RandomTrivia]

Here is today's outrage, from that page -- Akin again:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/0 ... 59088.html

:shock:

Oh my everloving fuck. It depresses me that I am related to people who will more than likely vote for this person. At least he's still spewing the bile this close to the election and keeping himself in the news. I keep hoping he'll talk himself right out of being elected, but Missouri is heavily conservative.

Cognitive dissonance much? From the Russian immigrant in the video (not the rape victim):

"I know Congressman Todd Akin knows what government's job is, that is to protect life, not to control life like they did in Russia," she said in the ad. "The reason why I'm supporting Todd Akin is because I love this nation. I love my freedoms. I don't want to lose my freedoms."

But he's wanting to take away her (and our) freedom to choose whether or not to continue with a pregnancy. And she doesn't seem to get it.

I've been pregnant once (and a half, technically). I love the sproutlet insanely, and it was a fairly "easy" pregnancy other than the c-section, but even so, no way in hell do I ever want to be pregnant again, thank you very much. Ever. Seriously. They think adoption will make it no big deal or something, because they aren't forcing people to keep the baby, but they still want to force people to go through a pregnancy and labor/delivery.

If Doug Phillips is a tool, what's Todd? I can't come up with an appropriate word for him.

[shesinsane]

Oh my everloving fuck. It depresses me that I am related to people who will more than likely vote for this person. At least he's still spewing the bile this close to the election and keeping himself in the news. I keep hoping he'll talk himself right out of being elected, but Missouri is heavily conservative.

Cognitive dissonance much? From the Russian immigrant in the video (not the rape victim):

But he's wanting to take away her (and our) freedom to choose whether or not to continue with a pregnancy. And she doesn't seem to get it.

I've been pregnant once (and a half, technically). I love the sproutlet insanely, and it was a fairly "easy" pregnancy other than the c-section, but even so, no way in hell do I ever want to be pregnant again, thank you very much. Ever. Seriously. They think adoption will make it no big deal or something, because they aren't forcing people to keep the baby, but they still want to force people to go through a pregnancy and labor/delivery.

If Doug Phillips is a tool, what's Todd? I can't come up with an appropriate word for him.

Simple: don't ever have sex again, duh. ;) This is America, you have the freedom to abstain (unless you're married, then you should let your husband decide and if you get pregnant it's your headship and God's will and when you're hospitalized for complications, accept them as gifts from God).

[2xx1xy1JD]

"Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake"-Napoleon Bonaparte*

*Edited because I CAN spell Bonaparte

Or, if you're a Democrat, spent $1.5 million to get an enemy that will make mistakes. That's right - the DEMOCRATS were supporting Akin during the primary, betting on the fact that he would act just as he's acting.

If I were in Missouri, there's no way that I would vote for Akin - but I'd be pretty cynical about donating to the Democratic Party either.

[emmiedahl]

If you are voting Republican this election, you are not a sane Republican. You are voting to put people in power who believe this bullshit. There is no excuse for voting Republican this year. The fiscal conservative ship sailed more than 20 years ago.