Anna M wrote a blog, took her bro's out for lunch.

[Prek teach]

But it was Anna who had the argument. She's older than jesse but younger than the other two.

[antifundie]

Ugh...food control issues!!!

It's taken me a looooong time to even admit I had food issues, much less deal with them.

My mom was stunned when I told her (after taking a basic human development class) that little kids' taste buds are more sensitive, and that therefore strongly flavored foods (like broccoli) actually can taste stronger to children.

I was one that was NOT ALLOWED to eat anything between meals, and forced to clean my plate a meal time. Ugh. My mom also thought she had weight issues, so she would do things like pre-portion the cream cheese (into 8 wedges) and then be mad if we didn't remove the whole wedge, or if we ate less than a portion. Or more than a portion. Ugh.

I guess some of that can be a socio-economic thing--you don't want the kids eating the dinner food, but my mom never bought snacks or anything, so all the food in the house was earmarked for a meal.

Also, when you have a billion kids, it saves you money to keep forcing them to eat gross food, or not having to pay for their Taco Bell.

[Fun-Dee]

I decided long before I ever had kids that I would not torment them over food. When I was first married I watched my fundie MIL force her 7 year old grandson to finish a dinner that I thought was too much for him. He was sitting there crying over his dinner and I decided that my future kids would never cry over their dinner. I made them taste a few things they didn't like, but I never made them finish anything. Now as young adults there are very few things they won't eat. My husband, on the other hand, is the pickiest eater ever. Of course he was raised by my MIL.

[TMS]

Using food as discipline is just wrong! Our family's rule was that you had to take one bite of everything served at the table. Taste everything. If we didn't like it, we didn't have to eat it, but we had to taste it. Then if we didn't finish the food WE put on our plates, no snacks except for fresh fruits and vegetables between meals. My parents' philosophy was that by tasting something several times we would eventually acquire a taste for it, and if we were truly hungry at meal times, we would eat (snacking on junk food would spoil an appetite for real food); if we needed to eat between meals then fruits and veggies were good for us. I guess it worked. My brothers (in their 30's now) and I are some of the least picky eaters I know and we all love to try new things. None of us have any food issues or weight problems.

[slickcat79]

As I'm not a real Maxwell fangirl, I can't remember Sarah and the younger brothers' ages.

But let's say that she's 30 and the oldest of the "reversal" babies is 22.

Sound about right?

If so, and if two of the "reversal" babies were old enough to argue, then the youngest was maybe 3 and the oldest 4 or 5.

And Sarah was ... 13?

Ohh, it was Anna. Which is better because Christopher and Nathan are in their 30s and have their own families by now...I'd hope they wouldn't let their younger sister take them out for lunch to make up for a childhood slight. I'm still not sure why Anna feels the need to make up for the argument at this point, though.

[MamaJunebug]

But it was Anna who had the argument. She's older than jesse but younger than the other two.

:o Oh, thank you! What a relief. I was truly perplexed at what kind of monsters would do that. Now I'm just perplexed at why being in an argument would result in Wheat Thins for 2 and tacos for 1.

Weird-a people, is all I can say.

[emmiedahl]

I decided long before I ever had kids that I would not torment them over food. When I was first married I watched my fundie MIL force her 7 year old grandson to finish a dinner that I thought was too much for him. He was sitting there crying over his dinner and I decided that my future kids would never cry over their dinner. I made them taste a few things they didn't like, but I never made them finish anything.

I will confess, I do make my children take a 'no thank you' bite before refusing something. I also allow them to choose only one item to say 'no thank you' to. Otherwise, they would live on french bread and fruit. I know this is considered cruel and unusual punishment in the AP community.

If the item is something that they have disliked for a long time, I don't even make them take the bite. I was allergic to seafood for years. It makes me vomit violently for hours afterward. My mom thought I was being dramatic and made me clean my plate, after which I would throw up all night. It was ridiculous. So if my kids show a long time aversion, we stop even trying it.

[fundiefan]

This just bothers me so much more than it should. I could lay out the food rules I was raised with - which I believe was one of the few things I my mother did 'right' - but everyone has said it, at least when I combine what others say. I also know that I have a seething disgust for the Maxwells and my opinion of anything they say or do is affected by that. Most fundies are snark material. A few, Maxwells among them, make me crazy and that probably means I need to step away from the computer because I get so bothered. I keep thinking of things to say, but it doesn't matter. I won't change them and I won't change me.

They just really and honestly scare me. And, piss me right the f*ck off. And confuse me and baffle me.

There is absolutely nothing in any sense of reality or acceptance that could make me see a years after the fact "compensation" as healthy, relevant or even positive. Late teens and grown adults making an issue of something that happened years ago, when they were children? A teenage girl believing that, years later, there is any reason to 'make up' for a childhood indiscretion? And, ultimately, making up for the choices of her parents! SHE didn't force her brothers to sit in the van and eat crackers while the rest of the family ate in a restaurant. SHE didn't make the rules or give the consequences. Yet, years later, SHE is 'making it better'?

That just makes me insanely crazy. The parents inflicted the consequences. Inappropriate consequences at that. Yet, SHE is 'making it right'? What the f*ck? What kind of mind twisting is that?

Forcing the boys to sit and eat crackers, years ago, is pretty much irrelevant to me. It's the fact that something in Anna's mind tells her that it is good and special and important to 'fix' something she had no control over, from years ago. What in her life and world tells her it's something to remember much less make up for?

I kicked my sister and broke her finger. I didn't intend to break her finger. It was a consequence of our kick fight. We were on opposite ends of the sofa kicking each other and fighting. She used her hands to try to block my kicks. Her finger was broken by my kick. Yes, I was punished, but so was she. We were fighting. We were behaving and acting inappropriately. Her finger was splinted and taken care of. I have not been reminded of that or forced to 'fix that mistake' for the rest of my life. As kids, she still held it over my head. As adults, we laugh about it. It was never, by anyone, used as a flaw in my person-hood. I haven't ever had to compensate or fix it or make up for it. We were BOTH punished for fighting and our punishment fit the 'crime' - at the time. Then, it was done and over.

I see childhood indiscretions every single day of my life. They are dealt with at the time. I've never experienced them used as character flaws or lifelong responsibilities. Hell, adult indiscretions are dealt with as needed and in a time frame that is relevant. When the parties involved are mature, intelligent adults, at least.

How the hell is it healthy or 'right' or what Jesus - or anyone - needs or wants, unless you don't really believe in forgiveness? Unless you believe that from the day you leave the womb you are wholly responsible for every single thing you do; every choice you make?

For people who make their living on raising and educating (training) children, they don't have a clue. When a childhood behavior is relevant to adult or teen-aged life, the screwed up is beyond comprehension.

[Chrystal-J]

Fundies would of gone insane at my house. By the time my son was 5, I let him help me grocery shop and I asked him what he wanted for dinner. Our philosophy was "what-ever" as far as dinner (or any meal). If it tasted decent and was semi-healthy, it was all good. We wouldn't of eaten a bag of Doritos for dinner or anything, but my son would say "hamburgers and a peanut butter sandwich" I'd say "fine". And we ate when we got hungry, no set time. (My husband worked a ton of hours, so he was almost never home at meal time anyway.) I'm sure fundies would be shocked to know that my son is now a healthy adult with no food issues. I think overly controlling your kids is more harmful than eating less than perfect meals. Although, I'm not sure fundies really care that much about the mental health of their kids as long as they obey.

[teecher17]

I've been a long time lurker at the Maxwell blog (as well as a few others) and have never, ever submitted a comment. I don't know why this particular post got to me as much as it did. I feel so sad for Sarah. I sent in a comment telling her that I hope her God leads her out into the world he created to LIVE her life and experience what the world has to offer. I mentioned that she lives in America and has the freedom to chose her path. I mentioned that there are people who can help her leave Mommy and Daddy's house. Of course my comment was not posted but I like to think that maybe a glimmer of it may stick with her. I know, crazy, right? I know she probably just thinks I'm some evil sinner that the devil has put in her path...sigh. Sometimes the suppression of these poor kids (now adults) REALLY gets to me : (

Just needed to rant. Thanks be to FJ for letting me do so.

[Justme]

As I'm not a real Maxwell fangirl, I can't remember Sarah and the younger brothers' ages.

But let's say that she's 30 and the oldest of the "reversal" babies is 22.

Sound about right?

If so, and if two of the "reversal" babies were old enough to argue, then the youngest was maybe 3 and the oldest 4 or 5.

And Sarah was ... 13?

Did Mr. & Mrs. Maxwell side with a 13-year-old in an argument with pre-schoolers, and punish pre-schoolers with Wheat Thins while the rest porked out on Taco Bell?

If so, they have not impressed me in any way as examples of sensible child-raising, much less "Christian" child-raising!

If so ... boy, this is gonna sound harsh ... perhaps it's for the best that Sarah hasn't married and had children of her own, as yet. I would say the girl might need some mellowing (or might have needed some mellowing. Maybe she's finally cool with things like arguments with people who can't defend themselves properly...?

Sarah is 29.5. ANNA took her 3 bro's to lunch. Anna is 18. These 4 plus Mary are the "reversal babies". I guess Mary had to find her own lunch this day...

[Guest Anonymous]

Ma Max discusses her 'punishing with food and other passive-aggressive bitch-mama techniques' in one of the old Corners:

Mom's Corner - June 1999

What Is A Mother to Do?

One of the biggest mothering frustrations I face is not knowing what consequences a wrong behavior in one of my children should receive. I watch an attitude or action that I know ought to be corrected, but I am at a loss as to what to do about it. I want to be consistent and have consequences standardized, but will sometimes ignore the situation just because I don’t know how to discipline for it.

......

I imagine each of you face issues like this several times a day in your home if you have more than one child. .....

A schedule gives direction for your day. In a similar way, standardizing and knowing exactly what you will do for many of the common areas that require discipline in your home, gives direction to your child training. Doorposts (http://www.ed-pak.com/doorpost.html) has a wonderful chart (If/Then Chart) to help you work through this task of determining consequences and then writing them down to be posted in the home for easy reference.

........

Recently we were working on the children becoming responsible for brushing their teeth in the mornings. I spent our scheduled "training time" in the late afternoons teaching the children how to brush their teeth, how long to brush for, and how to put their tooth brushes away afterwards. We still needed a consequence if the teeth weren’t brushed. The decision was made to have the child lose two days worth of any dessert we might have if he hadn’t brushed his teeth. I wrote this on the white board and then kept track of any offenders there. Once the "rule" and the "consequence" were written down, I was no longer at a loss as to what to do when I noticed a toothbrush that still had toothpaste on it. I didn’t have to nag, fuss, or feel frustrated. I could just call the non-toothbrusher to the bathroom, tell him to please brush his teeth, and express my sympathy that he had chosen to miss two days worth of dessert because he hadn’t brushed his teeth!

We have also "backwards" applied Prov. 17:1, "Better a dry crust with peace and quiet than a house full of feasting, with strife." When our children are fussing with each other, the consequence is to eat a dry crust, and we quote this particular verse with them.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Interesting. I think the Wheat Thins weren't just what happens to be in the car, but chosen specifically to be a "dry crust."

[Guest Anonymous]

Interesting. I think the Wheat Thins weren't just what happens to be in the car, but chosen specifically to be a "dry crust."

Yeah, given that she had a written 'If/then' consequence list, I reckon they would keep a box in the car, just in case someone needed to be starved as a punishment.

[takers401]

After reading a bunch of (alright all of the archived) Mom's/Dad's corners, what I found interesting is how their writing style changed. The Corners originally sounded like one friend talking to another friend about a life happening that had recently occurred. Or a nice thought that they'd had that they wanted to pass along. Now the Corners sound as if they come from a holy roller who is bent upong spewing scripture at the unworthy who read them in the hope that the reader gets a glimpse at how awesome they could be if they only follow the Maxwells way of life. I still find nuggets that are of interest in the corners, but I have to wade through some much scripture that the message gets lots. I like the writing style of the earlier Corners much, much better.