Forget anti-vaxers, now we have anti-antibiotics

[Wolfie]

I used to be a big lover of organ meats but in the past decade I'm concerned about residuals that may be in the livers. And well the cholesterol just isn't worth it to me at this point after all the work I've done to bring it down.

Well, of course pastured meat won't be exposed to those toxins. :roll:

Actually that is another reason that it is a rare treat.

[Witsec7]

Well, of course pastured meat won't be exposed to those toxins. :roll:

Actually that is another reason that it is a rare treat.

I did take a dip into liver earlier in the month when I dined in Portland at the rest. the DD works at. She had a chicken liver pate on the menu so I had to have it. So I guess it will be another 10 years or so before I enjoy it again :D

[formergothardite]

Liver makes me gag. I don't care how good it is for me, I can't eat it.

[snarkbillie]

I haven't been able to eat liver since I found out what livers exist for. I wouldn't eat the pool filter and I'm not going to eat the body's filter. :lol:

[OkToBeTakei]

I haven't been able to eat liver since I found out what livers exist for. I wouldn't eat the pool filter and I'm not going to eat the body's filter. :lol:

My sister had a similar reaction when she found out that Tongue....was well strangely enough Tongue. Guess the name never gave it away for her :lol: She was green realising she'd actually asked for Tongue in her school packed lunch as a treat.

[snarkbillie]

My sister had a similar reaction when she found out that Tongue....was well strangely enough Tongue. Guess the name never gave it away for her :lol: She was green realising she'd actually asked for Tongue in her school packed lunch as a treat.

I remember being in elementary school and learning the functions of the major organs and realizing that the liver I had been eating was a liver. Yuck. It's probably something I should try to "get over".

[lovefromgirl]

I've also heard that clients aren't happy until you send them home with something. We have a hard time convincing client to finish animal antibiotics.

How very silly of those clients. Antibiotic resistance is antibiotic resistance. If I don't want to breed a human superbug, why should I want to breed one in my cat? So the two times in her eleven years on this earth that she's needed them, she has finished her course. I put my foot down because I love my babies. We will get the pills down the hatch, no "or else" about it.

And we definitely don't go for the pills lightly. Addy had them the first time because I saw blood in her urine and she was going wherever she pleased. The second time, she had a nasty URI that wasn't responding to "watch and wait". I've nursed them through what I can without, but when they need help, I get them help.

[mirele]

I haven't been able to eat liver since I found out what livers exist for. I wouldn't eat the pool filter and I'm not going to eat the body's filter. :lol:

:lol: That's like when I found out lobster's favorite food was lobster. I can't even think about eating it anymore.

[GiGi_41]

Could it be that you'd been vaccinated or been ill with that strain in the past so you had a less severe version?

And only a day? Even if I have a mild cold I'm stuffy for more than a day. And with influenza I'm achy and stuffy and sick for much longer. (then worn out for at least a few more weeks, it was over a month when I got H1N1.)

I'll say I had a cold, but I know that the Littles had H1N1 because they went to the doctor and she tested them, so again, vaccinated= flu...not vaccinated= no flu just cold.

I'm not anti vaccine BTW....all kids are/have been vaccinated. And they will be vaccinated for the flu. I'm just saying I waffle on the effectiveness for myself.

[Wolfie]

And I'm feeling guilty today. Just got back from the doctor and I have a painful lump under my ear. I really asked if they could lance it or something, but she insisted that it was probably infected and needed a course of antibiotics before they thought about doing anything else. After the infection was gone they could remove it if it continued to bother me. (a cyst)

[Three and Done]

I, for one, am VERY thankful for antibiotics! DD #2 was critically ill at the age of 3 with septic staph - she had a fever of 106 when admitted to the hospital, and if it weren't for Rocephin (and a PICC line, poor baby), she would NOT be here today! (This does not include her other numerous infections that were cured by anitbiotics, including E. Coli, which also put her in the hospital before she was 3).

She is ALIVE thanks to antibiotics, and I would never discount the fact that they saved her life.

[Wolfie]

Liver makes me gag. I don't care how good it is for me, I can't eat it.

If you don't like it, don't worry about it. It's not as good for you as people once thought.

[Minerva]

I've never had a flu shot, and I've also never had a flu. I've been thinking about getting it for a couple years now because of the herd immunity thing and how it can kill certain segments of the population. But then again I'm never around newborns or the elderly, and I don't work in a hospital or anything like that, and as Aretejo pointed out, it's somewhat hit and miss when it's manufactured. Not sure what to do. It's offered to me every time I'm at the doctor's.

[Vex]

My GP is highly reluctant to prescribe antibiotics, he says that because of an over-reliance on antibiotics there are more and more mutant antibiotic-resistant strains of diseases. I'm also allergic to most antibiotics (some give me hives, some make me vomit), so he always uses alternative treatments for me - and they work.

That said, when I had a knee op and got a staph infection from it, I needed antibiotics desperately. I tried to take them but I vomited them right up and my surgeon just told me to stop taking them and heal naturally. 10 days later my wounds were pouring yellow/green soup-like pus and I was put into hospital for an operation to clean out the wounds and then put on IV antibiotics (and anti-emetics to deal with the side-effects) through a PICC line 4 times a day for 2 weeks in hospital, and I then required 2 additional months of oral antibiotics as followup.

My GP said that if I'd taken antibiotics all the time (I get sick a lot, I have a crappy immune system), I might have had a lot more trouble kicking the infection. I think he's probably right about people taking far too many antibiotics (especially when people take it for things that antibiotics aren't designed to treat), but the guy in the OP was smug and gross about it, and I think he's an idiot for taking chances with a child.

[Arete]

I've never had a flu shot, and I've also never had a flu. I've been thinking about getting it for a couple years now because of the herd immunity thing and how it can kill certain segments of the population. But then again I'm never around newborns or the elderly, and I don't work in a hospital or anything like that, and as Aretejo pointed out, it's somewhat hit and miss when it's manufactured. Not sure what to do. It's offered to me every time I'm at the doctor's.

Get it Minerva, please get it. Flu is nothing to mess with, you really don't want the experience. While the vaccines are not always accurate for the year, always stack the odds in your favor. Not to mention that if you are circulating in public, you are around the elderly and small children.

Sorry for the evangelism. Flu is a difficult recovery even in the most healthy of people, and it really is a killer in vulnerable populations.

[Deleted03]

Get it Minerva, please get it. Flu is nothing to mess with, you really don't want the experience. While the vaccines are not always accurate for the year, always stack the odds in your favor. Not to mention that if you are circulating in public, you are around the elderly and small children.

Sorry for the evangelism. Flu is a difficult recovery even in the most healthy of people, and it really is a killer in vulnerable populations.

I'm gonna get flocked for that but uh? I got the flu 3 times, and granted it's not H1N1 where I coughed for a month, it is not that bad.

In France most of the doctors and nurses don't get the flu vaccines, because it's only good for some strains, not others and sometimes they just totally miss it!

Herd immunity in the flu is just non sense. But you know knock yourself up, you have no factors of risk and never had it, what would happen if you had a common infection? You know you might survive! Please, I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous. I'd rather see people wearing head masks when they are infected, everyone washing their hands regularly, than pretending her immunity is so important in the flu. Vaccinate those who can benefit from being saved from 3 or 4 strains of the flu, don't push it on those who won't. Push prevention from infection, not vaccines!

[Arete]

Herd immunity from flu is not nonsense. I don't care if people hold superstitious, premodern, magical thinking views about vaccines, but I do care if they actually try and sell it as the truth. Let's review the biggest principle of herd immunity-when you are vaccinated and do not develop a disease, you have no chance of spreading the disease. This is what protects the herd, or what is more accurately described as our fellow human beings. There are people who are immunocompromised or allegeric to specific vaccine components, and they cannot be vaccinated. The immunocompromised are the most at risk from actually dying of the flu, and swine flu is not the only influenza you can die from. When you are vaccinated, you cannot carry the disease to the immunocompromised, elderly, or newborns. Don't assume because your grandmother is no longer alive or because you don't have a newborn of your own or in your family that you are not dangerous to this population. The immunpcompromised, the elderly, and newborns do not live in bubbles. They live in public and so do you. If you use public transportation, if you go to work or classes, if you go to a supermarket, you have a chance of passing the flu to them before you even realize that you are sick. Masks are not condoms, you can still transmit even if you use a mask, though a mask is helpful.

Not every bad respiratory infection is the flu. Now, if you are still willing to go through with the flu, YOU knock yourself out. But don't pretend that you are not a danger to others around you. I am an out and proud Francophile, and have been for most of my life. So it really pains me to say, "Shame on most of the doctors and nurses of France if they don't get flu shots". They are most definitely causing nosicomial infections that kill people at a much higher rate. In the US, where there isn't a lot to be proud of in our health delivery system, hospitals and nursing homes are cracking down on doctors and nurses. Now many make vaccination for their healthcare workers mandatory, and this trend is only going to spread here.

Push prevention from infection? WTH do you think the purpose of a vaccine is? Do you really think relying on millions of people to observe good hygiene is a plan?

[Guest Anonymous]

Push prevention from infection, not vaccines!

I choose to find this confusing.

[Deleted03]

Herd immunity from flu is not nonsense. I don't care if people hold superstitious, premodern, magical thinking views about vaccines, but I do care if they actually try and sell it as the truth. Let's review the biggest principle of herd immunity-when you are vaccinated and do not develop a disease, you have no chance of spreading the disease. This is what protects the herd, or what is more accurately described as our fellow human beings. There are people who are immunocompromised or allegeric to specific vaccine components, and they cannot be vaccinated. The immunocompromised are the most at risk from actually dying of the flu, and swine flu is not the only influenza you can die from. When you are vaccinated, you cannot carry the disease to the immunocompromised, elderly, or newborns. Don't assume because your grandmother is no longer alive or because you don't have a newborn of your own or in your family that you are not dangerous to this population. The immunpcompromised, the elderly, and newborns do not live in bubbles. They live in public and so do you. If you use public transportation, if you go to work or classes, if you go to a supermarket, you have a chance of passing the flu to them before you even realize that you are sick. Masks are not condoms, you can still transmit even if you use a mask, though a mask is helpful.

Not every bad respiratory infection is the flu. Now, if you are still willing to go through with the flu, YOU knock yourself out. But don't pretend that you are not a danger to others around you. I am an out and proud Francophile, and have been for most of my life. So it really pains me to say, "Shame on most of the doctors and nurses of France if they don't get flu shots". They are most definitely causing nosicomial infections that kill people at a much higher rate. In the US, where there isn't a lot to be proud of in our health delivery system, hospitals and nursing homes are cracking down on doctors and nurses. Now many make vaccination for their healthcare workers mandatory, and this trend is only going to spread here.

Push prevention from infection? WTH do you think the purpose of a vaccine is? Do you really think relying on millions of people to observe good hygiene is a plan?

I think that prevention that goes through injecting some sort of product is part of prevention but not the only thing.

My roommate got H1N1 because her stupid friend could not be bothered to read and respect the information that was sent to everyone that the virus stayed on surfaces for 7 days and had a party 3 days after battling the flu. So yeah I think teaching people sanitary principles are important.

I just find it ridiculous that someone tells a healthy person who does not have an immuno depressed family member, or close co-worker who can't vaccine, that really they should vaccinate against a virus they might not come in contact with and actually from a family they have never even contracted before. So YOU knock yourself out with your vaccine, but I'll feel free to state my mind to someone YOU push to get a vaccine.

No you can't get herd immunity for the flu, because it costs lots of money either for you or for the state to provide it for everyone every year, efficiency is limited and dependent on gambling on what strains are going to be important, and because there are some immuno reactions to vaccines, and even if it's a small percentage, we have to wonder if it's worth having a 1000 cases of Guillain barré, for everyone to be safe from 3 strands of the virus, that might or might not be the one important this year.

Plus many people still experience flu like symptoms when they get the vaccine, while they would not even had experienced anything had they gotten the flu.

I don't know that France has a higher rate of nosocomial illnesses than other countries. I don't think those doctors and nurses are stupid either. I think they make a different choice than you, informed by different calculation of risk and benefits and you should respect that too!

[MonkeyMomma]

I'm gonna get flocked for that but uh? I got the flu 3 times, and granted it's not H1N1 where I coughed for a month, it is not that bad.

In France most of the doctors and nurses don't get the flu vaccines, because it's only good for some strains, not others and sometimes they just totally miss it!

Herd immunity in the flu is just non sense. But you know knock yourself up, you have no factors of risk and never had it, what would happen if you had a common infection? You know you might survive! Please, I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous. I'd rather see people wearing head masks when they are infected, everyone washing their hands regularly, than pretending her immunity is so important in the flu. Vaccinate those who can benefit from being saved from 3 or 4 strains of the flu, don't push it on those who won't. Push prevention from infection, not vaccines!

You also might die. Seriously. Remember H1N1? I was pregnant. Who was dying from it? Pregnant ladies. Did I get the vaccine? Fuck yeah I did!

Like Sogba and Artejo point out, vaccines ARE prevention. One part of prevention. I still wash my hands. I mean, come on. Vaccines aren't magic fairy dust, but I certainly prefer a stick once a year to feeling like shit for weeks ....

[Arete]

Guillain barré-you do understand that this is not an issue with today's vaccine? It's a red herring.

You can teach people all you want, you are never going to even get close to 100% compliance with good hygiene standards. Your friend is exhibit A.

No, I do not have to respect their choice. The only thing to do is accept their choice until they are force to change. Yes, forced to change. My grandmother would not allow her children to be vaccinated for polio when the vaccine came out. There were reports that in some cases, it actually cause the disease, because they were using a live vaccine. Guess what? The decision was taken out of her hands. Because so many parents were like her, the state distributed the vaccines in school. She never saw another polio epidemic, and I'm sure she was grateful.

[Deleted03]

You also might die. Seriously. Remember H1N1? I was pregnant. Who was dying from it? Pregnant ladies. Did I get the vaccine? Fuck yeah I did!

Like Sogba and Artejo point out, vaccines ARE prevention. One part of prevention. I still wash my hands. I mean, come on. Vaccines aren't magic fairy dust, but I certainly prefer a stick once a year to feeling like shit for weeks ....

I never mentioned H1N1 as a flu to not get the vaccine from. But it is a great example of a yearly vaccine that was totally wrong for instance. Yes get a vaccine from a super strain of the flu that has a higher incidence than the general flu. Plus it was necessary to help ensure that health systems were not overloaded and unable to help patients.

Do it every year to everyone when it is going to trigger auto immune disease in a percentage of the population every year? No, I think we should think longer about this.

Believe it or not, there is a nuance between yes to all vaccines and no to all vaccines.

[Deleted03]

Guillain barré-you do understand that this is not an issue with today's vaccine? It's a red herring.

You can teach people all you want, you are never going to even get close to 100% compliance with good hygiene standards. Your friend is exhibit A.

No, I do not have to respect their choice. The only thing to do is accept their choice until they are force to change. Yes, forced to change. My grandmother would not allow her children to be vaccinated for polio when the vaccine came out. There were reports that in some cases, it actually cause the disease, because they were using a live vaccine. Guess what? The decision was taken out of her hands. Because so many parents were like her, the state distributed the vaccines in school. She never saw another polio epidemic, and I'm sure she was grateful.

Well don't worry some doctors will still be there to fight against mandatory vaccination for everyone every year.

I consider that vaccines are not something someone heatlhy and who lives with healthy people should do automatically every year. Other vaccines like polio, etc are not a yearly occurrence and benefits far outweigh risks. I am not at all convinced that a yearly mandatory vaccination for the flu would fit that at all.

[Arete]

We reviewed the nuances with the flu vaccine.

I want to address your point of cost. These are the numbers for the US-Infuenza causes 20,000 deaths and about 200,000 hospitalizations a year. Let's do the math. An infuenza vaccine costs 25 USD. A funeral, antivirals, or 3 days in the hospital are all orders of magnitude more expensive. Even if you vaccinated EVERYONE, the vaccine wins as a cost effect measure hands down.

Don't get the vaccine, but don't pretend you are on the same or higher moral ground as those who do. You have bought into the anti vaccination hysteria.

Here's some more numbers. About 10-60% of illnesses in a given season that seem like the flu are actually caused by influenza. Influenza is highly contagious, and has anywhere between a 20-50% transmission rate.

[Arete]

I want a reputable source for triggering of autoimmune reactions in populations. That is a standard cannard in antivaccine propaganda, but they never seem to provide numbers as to how many documented reactions per number of people vaccinated a year. You then have to compare it to the death rate to get any meaningful idea on cost/benefit.