New York is Awesome and Anti-Choicers are Delusional

[Anxious Girl]

Being a parent that keeps tabs on them and teaches pros and cons of certain behaivors is what keeps them safe. Is it good for 15 year olds to have sex when they cannot legally drink or vote or even get tattos? I am fairly liberal but I would not want my teen engaging in risky behaivors behind my back when I am still providing for them. Even as adults I would hope I gave them enough knowledge. Teens are not adults yet. And 18 doens't mean to sleep with everyone. Well at least it is legal. Just because you can do something never means you should. Right? I could get drunk at bar tonight but it may not be in my best interest. As far as exploring bodies dildos are made for that.

It doesn't matter what you want. You cannot force teens to adhere to your every single wish. They are people like you, not clay for you to shape into what you want. Teens are individuals and have different opinions from their parents. You're not liberal, you're just saying "I'm usually liberal but..."!excuse so that people won't criticize you.

[samurai_sarah]

Being a parent that keeps tabs on them and teaches pros and cons of certain behaivors is what keeps them safe. Is it good for 15 year olds to have sex when they cannot legally drink or vote or even get tattos? I am fairly liberal but I would not want my teen engaging in risky behaivors behind my back when I am still providing for them. Even as adults I would hope I gave them enough knowledge. Teens are not adults yet. And 18 doens't mean to sleep with everyone. Well at least it is legal. Just because you can do something never means you should. Right? I could get drunk at bar tonight but it may not be in my best interest. As far as exploring bodies dildos are made for that.

Would you not teach a small child about road safety, because they have no business being in the road? Of course you don't want children to engage in risky behaviours, but why does teaching them, and providing them with the means to stay safe sexualise them? And what makes you think that someone who knows about sex would automatically want to do it? Ignorance, and a lack of means is the real danger. And why the need to pander to the religious right, rather than giving young people the means to stay safe?

[Anxious Girl]

Would you not teach a small child about road safety, because they have no business being in the road? Of course you don't want children to engage in risky behaviours, but why does teaching them, and providing them with the means to stay safe sexualise them? And what makes you think that someone who knows about sex would automatically want to do it? Ignorance, and a lack of means is the real danger. And why the need to pander to the religious right, rather than giving young people the means to stay safe?

So that the wingnuts don't bring a fake persecution case to court (has that happened?) the sickos. :evil:

[samurai_sarah]

So that the wingnuts don't bring a fake persecution case to court (has that happened?) the sickos. :evil:

My bad, I keep on forgetting that their religious freedom trumps everyone else's rights. Off to the prayer closet.

[roddma]

Would you not teach a small child about road safety, because they have no business being in the road?

Of course because I am repsonible for them . However, just becuae i give them ways to prevent something isn't meaning they will or should take part.

[ElphabaGalinda]

To the bold. I'm somehow hearing denial in this phrase. Their hormones tell them they need sex, sex positive parents don't shame kids out of exploring their own bodies and enjoying masturbation. But teens will have sex and I preferred mine to be educated in contraception, understand consent and withdrawal of same and have a working knowledge of STD transmission. Openly conversing with teens about using dental dams and barriers of STD's may get the fundies all wound up. But frankly I could care less. We need to reduce teen pregnancy rates, that means education and availability of contraceptives.

I'm hearing the same thing. Teens will have sex whether you want them to or not. Teens will want to have sex whether you think that's right or not. Just because you want something to be reality doesn't mean you can ignore actual fact and reality. The world doesn't bend to your desires just because. It's better that teens have education and available contraceptives (which doesn't make them start having sex any earlier or later than their abstinence only peers). All giving teens knowledge and access to protection does is teaches them how to be safe...because teens will have sex whether they have available contraception or not. And you know what teens are more likely to sneak behind their back? Teens with parents who say 15 year olds should never ever be having sex so those parents don't want them educated about contraception. All you do by saying teens don't have reproductive rights and shouldn't be wanting or having sex is making sure if you ever have a teen of your own that that teen will never want to tell you anything.

Why do people think something is true just because they want it to be true?

[Witsec7]

Being a parent that keeps tabs on them and teaches pros and cons of certain behaivors is what keeps them safe. Is it good for 15 year olds to have sex when they cannot legally drink or vote or even get tattos? I am fairly liberal but I would not want my teen engaging in risky behaivors behind my back when I am still providing for them. Even as adults I would hope I gave them enough knowledge. Teens are not adults yet. And 18 doens't mean to sleep with everyone. Well at least it is legal. Just because you can do something never means you should. Right? I could get drunk at bar tonight but it may not be in my best interest. As far as exploring bodies dildos are made for that.

Somehow I just don't envision you buying a dildo for your son, or daughter for that matter. :?

Do you even have children? How old are they? Do you oversee them 24/7 like Steve Maxwell? Inquiring minds need to know.

[ElphabaGalinda]

Somehow I just don't envision you buying a dildo for your son, or daughter for that matter. :?

Do you even have children? How old are they? Do you oversee them 24/7 like Steve Maxwell? Inquiring minds need to know.

If roddma does have children, with an attitude like that, those children aren't going to tell their parents anything, and will just sneak around and do it all anyways. I don't think any parent would want their children hiding things from them, but roddma's attitude is the kind of thing that makes them feel like they have to. I hid a lot from my parents when I was a teen, and I had a damn good reason, but they never knew what I was doing because I could lie and they couldn't watch me 24/7.

[samurai_sarah]

Of course because I am repsonible for them . However, just becuae i give them ways to prevent something isn't meaning they will or should take part.

So why doesn't that translate to giving teens knowledge and access to contraception/emergency contraception? Why deny them that safety? And why do the feelings of the religious right matter more than keeping teens safe? In an ideal world, young teenagers wouldn't have sex until they're capable of dealing with the biological and emotional consequences, but I don't live in an ideal world. Just like I advocate teaching small children about road safety, I advocate teaching teenagers about protection and providing them with the contraception.

And please, why is it more important what the religious right thinks, than keeping teenagers safe?

[Witsec7]

So why doesn't that translate to giving teens knowledge and access to contraception/emergency contraception? Why deny them that safety? And why do the feelings of the religious right matter more than keeping teens safe? In an ideal world, young teenagers wouldn't have sex until they're capable of dealing with the biological and emotional consequences, but I don't live in an ideal world. Just like I advocate teaching small children about road safety, I advocate teaching teenagers about protection and providing them with the contraception.

And please, why is it more important what the religious right thinks, than keeping teenagers safe?

I'm reading so much fundy double speak in rodma's posts. You can't teens info about sex 'cause they may use it. You can keep teens from having sex by watching over them 24/7 ala the Maxwells, people only go to bars to get drunk, biological drives are equated with kids running out into traffic. Drinking and tattoos are biologically driven like sex. Once you are 18 you will sleep (huh? I guess that means have sex) with anyone. Did I miss any?

[Sprocket]

Uh, raise your hand if you waited until you were legally an adult to have sex (18) or drink (21 - in the US)?

Me? *chirp, chirp*

[synchroswimr]

Uh, raise your hand if you waited until you were legally an adult to have sex (18) or drink (21 - in the US)?

Me? *chirp, chirp*

Oh. Um. Me too.

[Witsec7]

Uh, raise your hand if you waited until you were legally an adult to have sex (18) or drink (21 - in the US)?

Me? *chirp, chirp*

Nope.

edited for accuracy

[Sprocket]

Oh. Um. Me too.

No one I knew in high school (including the primitive baptist girl) waited until marriage/age of majority to have sex.

[ElphabaGalinda]

Oh. Um. Me too.

Me. Though I waited until it was legal to drink where I live (19 is legal drinking age here, and my first full drink was on my 19th birthday), because the idea of doing anything illegal still freaked me out :D I can't imagine waiting until 21, it seems so long especially when you're in college. And I had all the knowledge of sex and contraceptives, and could access them easily. Guess that didn't make me magically want to have sex younger, just like someone not know that or not having that access won't magically want to delay sex.

ETA I didn't delay sex because of my age, it was due to lack of opportunity, and no serious relationship, which is my personal comfort level.

[samurai_sarah]

I'm reading so much fundy double speak in rodma's posts. You can't teens info about sex 'cause they may use it. You can keep teens from having sex by watching over them 24/7 ala the Maxwells, people only go to bars to get drunk, biological drives are equated with kids running out into traffic. Drinking and tattoos are biologically driven like sex. Once you are 18 you will sleep (huh? I guess that means have sex) with anyone. Did I miss any?

I think you pretty much covered them all. And I just don't get it. The friends I have that grew up in sex-negative environments tended to be the ones that engaged in the riskiest of behaviours, whereas the friends who grew up in sex-postive environments mostly made informed choices, and stayed safe. Oddly enough, that included waiting longer. Shocker, I know. :roll: ;)

And because anecdata isn't good enough, the Netherlands' teen pregnancy rate, and abortion rate provides a good example for how things can go, if you empower teenagers with knowledge and means. And if you make pregnancy, STDs and sex an issue for all sexes, which needs thorough discussion, and a lot of communication. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pr ... etherlands

[Conuly]

Uh, raise your hand if you waited until you were legally an adult to have sex (18) or drink (21 - in the US)?

Me? *chirp, chirp*

Oooh, ooh, me me me!

But then, I'm not a very social person IRL, I think sex is kinda icky with all those bodily fluids (though I'm a-okay with anybody else having as much of it as they like!), and the smell of alcoholic beverages makes me nauseous so I'm not about to *drink* them. I figure that if I wouldn't eat rotten fruit then I probably shouldn't drink rotten fruit juice.

So, yeah, I recognize that I'm not typical in this area.

And this is after growing up with a mother who insisted we have access to contraceptives (because if you're going to have sex you should do it the sensible way), laughed at the idea that a friend of my sister's really was capable of vowing sanctimoneously not to have sex until she was married ("what if you don't get married until you're in your 30s like me?" she asked, "you'll never even consider changing your mind on that?"), and if she did drink (a few times a year) was always careful to offer a reasonable portion to us on the grounds that a glass of wine at dinner with your family isn't likely to harm a teenager and is better than it being some huge secret that you sneak off to binge on in private.

Education didn't do me any harm that I can see.

[Witsec7]

I failed the freeking test. I did not read for comprehension...sigh. Nope I didn't wait for any of it. I'm not the least bit sorry about not waiting either.

[Sprocket]

I failed the freeking test. I did not read for comprehension...sigh. Nope I didn't wait for any of it. I'm not the least bit sorry about not waiting either.

Yeah, me either.

[Guest Anonymous]

Uh, raise your hand if you waited until you were legally an adult to have sex (18) or drink (21 - in the US)?

Me? *chirp, chirp*

Here in the UK, I'm fairly certain you can drink alcohol from age 5 upwards, you just can't buy it until you are 18. I probably had a few sips of wine, maybe some beer, and champagne at weddings, etc. while I was under eighteen. I didn't have much more than a sip, or try to buy alcohol, until I was eighteen or nineteen.

As for sex (legal age here is 16), I did not do that until way, way after reaching the legal age. That was 100% due to lack of opportunity.

[Anxious Girl]

I failed the freeking test. I did not read for comprehension...sigh. Nope I didn't wait for any of it. I'm not the least bit sorry about not waiting either.

B-b-but experiencedd, it's supposed to be a blessed moment thanking Jesus for saving your soul when you have sex for the 1st time, because you're repopulating the Christian Army! Don't you care about the Christian Army?

[Witsec7]

B-b-but experiencedd, it's supposed to be a blessed moment thanking Jesus for saving your soul when you have sex for the 1st time, because you're repopulating the Christian Army! Don't you care about the Christian Army?

Frankly my dear I don't give a damn.

[Anxious Girl]

Frankly my dear I don't give a damn.

That's persecution! Not giving a damn! :auto-ambulance: :auto-ambulance: :auto-ambulance:

[rock_girl]

Uh, raise your hand if you waited until you were legally an adult to have sex (18) or drink (21 - in the US)?

Me? *chirp, chirp*

I was an adult when I had sex. My parents were very open about sexuality, relationships, contraception, stds, etc. I do recall being taken to the Mardi Gras (the awesome gay one here, not the beads for boobs one in the New Orleans) from when I was about 7 or so and being told that gay=totally ok as long as I commit to giving my mother grandchildren :lol:. I didn't wait until 18 to drink, but that was because my parents let me have a sip of whatever wine they were drinking when I was younger. Then I was allowed small glasses from ~16. I've only gotten drunk a few times and now don't drink at all.

Possibly children whose parents are open about sex, drugs, etc, are less likely to engage in those activities destructively because they already know there's nothing there to rebel against. Also there's no mystique. Why go and sleep with a dozen boys before you're 15 when you've been well informed that sex is going to be pretty average, at best? Why drink yourself stupid each weekend if you can just go and mix a weak g&t before dinner on Friday night?

It's a shame so many of these school programs have opt-out clauses. If all you know about sex is that it's wrong, and that condoms don't even protect against pregnancy or stds (fundie sex ed), why would you bother using them?

[roddma]

Somehow I just don't envision you buying a dildo for your son, or daughter for that matter. :?

Do you even have children? How old are they? Do you oversee them 24/7 like Steve Maxwell? Inquiring minds need to know.

It is no one's business if I have children or not. You don't need children or be Fundie to understand something is bad. I can't double quote on my phone but when does being against certain things make you Fundie? I don't drink (a lot) so that makes me Fundie? As teens we dont make the best choices. I am against medicating kids for a good reason. I have seen too many ppl who succumbed to their habits including an uncle. They will grow up to think medication solves everything. If a kid cant go to the parents something is wrong. I am nowhere near Fundie. I believe in responsibility. Yea my parents were stricter than most but I still knew about the world and what was good and bad. It just seems parents are lost these days about the birds and the bees. There must be better ways than medicine.

And since when do you need sex or a partner to be empowered?