Kidist fails to keep taking the pills

[Palimpsest]

No. Not quite what Jezebel said, although she is on the right track in some areas. She over simplified -- badly. Especially in the "claim they are of caucasian descent" area.

Ethiopia has a proud heritage and history. Some of its peoples may distinguish themselves from other, darker skinned, Africans, but they would probably also see themselves as superior to Caucasions!

The Emperor was descended from the Queen of Sheba and Solomon, after all. We Caucasions were still painting ourselves blue with woad and worshipping many gods while Ethiopians were worshipping Christ (thanks to Philip) and had in their possession the Ark of the Covenant at Axum. Yes, those are their beliefs, and are they truly that farfetched? Take a moment to reassess your Eurocentricity.

Yes, coming from the ruling class (and Amhara ethnicity) in Ethiopia in the 1970s did often mean that it was a profound shock to be labeled a "black" person -- an oppressed enslaved African-American black. My Amhara friends who are a little older than Kidist would agree to that specific culture shock. Ethiopia was never successfully colonized. They saw themselves as the rulers and, in some cases, the oppressors, not the oppressed.

All of which is not a good sample as to Ethiopian or Amhara thinking. I've not discussed Kidist with my Ethiopian, Amhara, Tigrian, or Eritrean friends because I'm fairly sure they would all be totally horrified by her.

I'd love to hear from a real Ethiopian here, rather than my, and your, interpretations.

We can agree that Kidist is profoundly mentally ill. I think that she was probably predisposed to mental illness. I think that leaving Ethiopia was traumatic, and who knows how many of her relatives died in the revolution.

Mental illness is not just a first world problem. Her mental illness takes a very repulsive form, but that does not mean that her racism is representative of all Amharas, or all Ethiopian exiles.

[Jezebel]

No. Not quite what Jezebel said, although she is on the right track in some areas. She over simplified -- badly. Especially in the "claim they are of caucasian descent" area.

Guilty as charged. I really only have superficial knowledge about any of the history surrounding Haile Selassie's fall, and admittedly even less about Ethiopian/Amharan identity. It's just enough to know that going into exile and encountering non-Ethiopians' perceptions of her would have been a major, major shock--but not more than that.

Yes, coming from the ruling class (and Amhara ethnicity) in Ethiopia in the 1970s did often mean that it was a profound shock to be labeled a "black" person -- an oppressed enslaved African-American black. My Amhara friends who are a little older than Kidist would agree to that specific culture shock. Ethiopia was never successfully colonized. They saw themselves as the rulers and, in some cases, the oppressors, not the oppressed.

Wow--that's interesting. And it explains a lot.

I'd love to hear from a real Ethiopian here, rather than my, and your, interpretations.

So would I!

[Guest Anonymous]

No. Not quite what Jezebel said, although she is on the right track in some areas. She over simplified -- badly. Especially in the "claim they are of caucasian descent" area.

Ethiopia has a proud heritage and history. Some of its peoples may distinguish themselves from other, darker skinned, Africans, but they would probably also see themselves as superior to Caucasions!

The Emperor was descended from the Queen of Sheba and Solomon, after all. We Caucasions were still painting ourselves blue with woad and worshipping many gods while Ethiopians were worshipping Christ (thanks to Philip) and had in their possession the Ark of the Covenant at Axum. Yes, those are their beliefs, and are they truly that farfetched? Take a moment to reassess your Eurocentricity.

Yes, coming from the ruling class (and Amhara ethnicity) in Ethiopia in the 1970s did often mean that it was a profound shock to be labeled a "black" person -- an oppressed enslaved African-American black. My Amhara friends who are a little older than Kidist would agree to that specific culture shock. Ethiopia was never successfully colonized. They saw themselves as the rulers and, in some cases, the oppressors, not the oppressed.

All of which is not a good sample as to Ethiopian or Amhara thinking. I've not discussed Kidist with my Ethiopian, Amhara, Tigrian, or Eritrean friends because I'm fairly sure they would all be totally horrified by her.

I'd love to hear from a real Ethiopian here, rather than my, and your, interpretations.

We can agree that Kidist is profoundly mentally ill. I think that she was probably predisposed to mental illness. I think that leaving Ethiopia was traumatic, and who knows how many of her relatives died in the revolution.

Mental illness is not just a first world problem. Her mental illness takes a very repulsive form, but that does not mean that her racism is representative of all Amharas, or all Ethiopian exiles.

A couple of things:

First and foremost, Ethiopia was absolutely and definitely colonized. It was colonized by Italy. No, this was not during the scramble for Africa, but the difference is what? Forty years? Forty five? Fifty?

Secondly, the esteem and the sense of privilege that comes from 'worshipping Christ' rather than 'painting [yourselves] blue with woad and worshipping many gods' is based on the belief that being a Christian is magically different from, and somehow better than, any of the other bullshit religious beliefs that people held before. In fact, a belief in the inherent superiority of Christianity (even in the context of African Christianity) is just as deeply rooted in 'Eurocentricity' as the positions that you deride.

ETA: Sorry, but I am not a 'real' Ethiopian... I am not a pretend Ethiopian either!

[Palimpsest]

A couple of things:

First and foremost, Ethiopia was absolutely and definitely colonized. It was colonized by Italy. No, this was not in the scramble for Africa, but the difference is what? Forty years? Forty five? Fifty?

Secondly, the esteem and the sense of privilege that comes from 'worshipping Christ' rather than 'painting [yourselves] blue with woad and worshipping many gods' is based on the belief that being a Christian is magically different, and somehow better, than any of the other bullshit religious beliefs that people held before. In fact, a belief in the inherent superiority of Christianity (even in the context of African Christianity) is just as deeply rooted in 'Eurocentricity' as the positions that you deride.

ETA: Sorry, but I am not a 'real' Ethiopian... I am not a pretend Ethiopian, for that matter!

First on colonization: You are wrong. Wrong. What I said was Ethiopia/Abyssinia was never successfully colonized. Emphasis on the successfully and on the colonized. Italy did make moves on it in the 1880s (Scramble for Africa) but was repulsed. As were other nations. Ethiopia is geographically very hard to invade and conquer. Ethiopia was never colonized but was occupied. Colonization = imposition of rule and attempts to impose change in culture. Occupation = failed attempt to impose rule or impose culture. 45, 50, 60 years is a HUGE amount of time in colonization terms. Ethiopia/Abysinnia was never colonized.

In 1935/6 Italy invaded parts of the then named Abyssinia. They took control of the portion that is now Eritrea and Djibouti -- but those old boundaries are somewhat fluid and have been refought many times since then. Italy then, in theory, claimed possession of portions of what is now called Ethiopia. Haile Selassi was forced into exile and appealed to the League of Nations for assistance.

Europe and the League of Nations were rather distracted by developments in Germany, and failed to support Haile Selassi until 1941.

In the interim Abyssinian militia fought long and hard against Italian occupation. The Italians built some rather useful roads during the occupation, but were defeated by guerilla warfare regularly. Note the difference between "occupation" and "colonization." They failed to "colonize" (as in impose Italian rule) because they were fighting a series of losing battles.

By 1941, Britain (and Britain alone) had finally responded to Haile Selassi's appeal. Probably not because of the goodness of British hearts, but to prevent a Fascist stronghold in the region. General Orde Wingate and Brigadier Daniel Sandford were detailed to lead the Gideon Force to support Abyssian/Ethiopian troops. With their help, Italy was successfully evicted from what is now Ethiopia. A surprising number of Italian soldiers defected from Mussolini's forces (I guess they saw the writing on the wall back in Europe) and went AWOL to stay on in Ethiopia to build more roads and run lots of hotels. Ethiopia, under Haile Selassi, was very pro-British in gratitude, but Ethiopia was never a colony of either Italy or Britain.

Secondly, [your quote of my post] " 'painting [yourselves] blue with woad and worshipping many gods' is based on the belief that being a Christian is magically different, and somehow better, than any of the other bullshit religious beliefs that people held before. "

Too funny! Back off the knee-jerk attack, Sogba! I was trying to correct what I perceived as a Eurocentric perception. Ethiopians, almost certainly correctly, have historically resisted European Christian "missionaries" on the grounds that Christian Ethiopians (not all Ethiopians are Christian) were worshipping the so-called Christian God well before Europeans. They are Ethiopian Coptic Christians and they get really pissed at f'ing European Evangelicals (whose ancestors painted themselves woad while Ethiopians were Christian) trying to convert them.

But, yes, absolutely! I'm actually a card carrying atheist and don't belive in magical Xianity or most religious bullshit. I do believe in respecting a cultural/historical/religious heritage if I don't think it is dangerous, even though I might not agree with it. :D

ETA. Sogba, just reread your post and you final salvo. Wow! Did you mean to come over as so snotty? I probably shouldn't be having my own knee-jerk offended reaction. Be that as it may.

I'm not a "real Ethiopian nor a pretend Ethiopian" either, but I did live there for 10 years in the 60s and 70s and do still have friends (some of whom still see themselves as in exile, while others do not) from there today. I certainly don't pretend to know it all and certainly don't have all the answers, but I do try to share my perceptions and my knowledge of the history of the country and some of the people I know.

Back to topic, I really would love to have some real ethnic Amharas/Ethiopians weigh in on Kidist. She is a very sick lady.

[JesusFightClub]

Palimpsest, you weren't exactly subtle in getting your point across, were you? So crying "Wow, you're so snotty" when it comes to Sogba's response, um...cannae tak' it, dinnae dish it? I can translate that from the European if you want.

What you said about people being painted in woad and worshipping multiple gods as compared to being Christian read as "the latter is better, morally and otherwise, than the former". That might have been a wee bit of a cultural assumption in your case, too. Atheist or not, you seemed to be saying that Christianity is the mark of civilisation. It might be, if people lived up to its precepts - but as they don't, all you're saying is what I could read on any right wing board any day of the week.

[Arete]

Is there some reason Palimpsest isn't getting the point across that it is actually Ethiopian Coptic Christians who look down on Northern European history and it's "painting faces blue"? Take it up with them. Knowing a few Ethiopian Christians and having gone to church with them, nothing pisses them off more than the gall of evangelical Christian missionaries trying to convert them. They will then mention ancestors in trees, painted blue while they were Christian. Yes, really, they do. No, they are not the most politically correct people when you start messing with their faith and culture. They are quite proud of both. Seriously sogba and JFC, it's not Palimpsest's construct.

[Vex]

Clearly, her issue with Kate is that she is what SHE wishes she was, namely an attractive white woman who is married to a powerful white man.

Edited because, really, grammar is the least of her problems.

[Guest Anonymous]

I absolutely did mean to be that snotty.

ETA: Screw this. I had something written out but, on re-reading it, I find that it's fatally unclear.

Sneaky additional edit: When I came back to this thread in the clear light of day, read the updates, and tried to examine the nuance of my argument, I found that there was nothing there. I think I perceived something in Palimpsest's post that just wasn't there and then got all het up arguing about it.

I do stand by my snottiness, I live to be snotty and sarcastic. :)

[VintageJen1984]

Is there some reason Palimpsest isn't getting the point across that it is actually Ethiopian Coptic Christians who look down on Northern European history and it's "painting faces blue"? Take it up with them. Knowing a few Ethiopian Christians and having gone to church with them, nothing pisses them off more than the gall of evangelical Christian missionaries trying to convert them. They will then mention ancestors in trees, painted blue while they were Christian. Yes, really, they do. No, they are not the most politically correct people when you start messing with their faith and culture. They are quite proud of both. Seriously sogba and JFC, it's not Palimpsest's construct.

This! I was confused that people are jumping down Palimpsest's throat over...stating what some people do.

[Guest Anonymous]

This! I was confused that people are jumping down Palimpsest's throat over...stating what some people do.

I did know what Palimpsest meant, I just thought that there was an element of Eurocentrism in the way that those particular beliefs were presented.

[Shasta ODonegal]

Kidist is a designer? Her blog is eye-searing.

[JesusFightClub]

Is there some reason Palimpsest isn't getting the point across that it is actually Ethiopian Coptic Christians who look down on Northern European history and it's "painting faces blue"? Take it up with them. Knowing a few Ethiopian Christians and having gone to church with them, nothing pisses them off more than the gall of evangelical Christian missionaries trying to convert them. They will then mention ancestors in trees, painted blue while they were Christian. Yes, really, they do. No, they are not the most politically correct people when you start messing with their faith and culture. They are quite proud of both. Seriously sogba and JFC, it's not Palimpsest's construct.

S/he could have phrased it better then. This is the Internet, we can't see faces or tones. If you state something insulting without clarifying, I can't know if it's "your construct" or someone else's.

ETA (while leaving original intact): Palimpsest, I didn't mean to say I was accusing you of lying. I wasn't sure whether you meant the thought was yours or Kidist's. Or if cold medication has so utterly confused me as to make normal posts seem weird - in which case I apologise to you and to Sogba.

[maybeizfundie]

I wish my dh would join in but he is seriously computer unsavvy. But as far as I can tell, Palimpsest's posts are reasonably accurate.

I think Kidist has taken a pretty common attachment to bloodline/ethnicity and overall Ethiopian pride and gone totally bonkers with it.

[ladymiller]

"Topless in a remote island while on vacation? What a silly woman. And why is she topless in the presence of her husband? Cannot she muster a little modesty in front of him?"

I can't get over the hilariousness of the last two sentences. Letting your husband see your goods is good. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[fakepigtails73]

When I wrote that I wish that one day she gets what she deserves, I didn't mean that I hope she gets beaten up or anything physically violent...My wish is more that someone confronts her verbally (aka she gets a mouthfull) re: her hateful rants.

I'm never one to wish violence on anyone, even on a despicable person like Kidist. Unless she suddenly starts beating up a stranger after eyeing her in a coffee shop for an hour, then I guess all bets are off, because that person has to defend herself.

Sorry, I wasn't clear!!

[browngrl]

We can agree that Kidist is profoundly mentally ill. I think that she was probably predisposed to mental illness. I think that leaving Ethiopia was traumatic, and who knows how many of her relatives died in the revolution.

Mental illness is not just a first world problem. Her mental illness takes a very repulsive form, but that does not mean that her racism is representative of all Amharas, or all Ethiopian exiles.

*prepare for a rant*

The kidist has some hateful ideas. I consider her to be a racist. I find pretty much everything she writes to be very offensive. However I am not at all sure that she has a mental illness. The diagnosis of mental illness is tricky to make based on blog posts. I think that categorizing racism as a psychiatric illness is controversial and perhaps best left to psychiatrists/mental health care professionals ( IIRC, the newest edition of the DSM comes out this year - but I have not seen it). Personally, I think that racism has it's roots in psychosocial factors (like culture/life events) and genetics. I think it is all good fun to laugh at the kidist (goodness knows her comments deserve a much stronger reproach) and say she "forgot her meds" but IMO classifying racism as a mental disorder medicalizes a social problem and solves nothing. I don't want her life events (what ever they were) to excuse her nasty words.

*steps off soap box and stops ranting*

What do you think? Is racism a mental illness?

[ElphabaGalinda]

*prepare for a rant*

The kidist has some hateful ideas. I consider her to be a racist. I find pretty much everything she writes to be very offensive. However I am not at all sure that she has a mental illness. The diagnosis of mental illness is tricky to make based on blog posts. I think that categorizing racism as a psychiatric illness is controversial and perhaps best left to psychiatrists/mental health care professionals ( IIRC, the newest edition of the DSM comes out this year - but I have not seen it). Personally, I think that racism has it's roots in psychosocial factors (like culture/life events) and genetics. I think it is all good fun to laugh at the kidist (goodness knows her comments deserve a much stronger reproach) and say she "forgot her meds" but IMO classifying racism as a mental disorder medicalizes a social problem and solves nothing. I don't want her life events (what ever they were) to excuse her nasty words.

*steps off soap box and stops ranting*

What do you think? Is racism a mental illness?

I don't consider racism a mental illness, and don't feel comfortable classifying Kidist as mentally ill from her posts. I do think she is very racist and find everything she says to be offensive, but I think it has a lot more to do with her cultural/life events. I do wonder why she lives in such a diverse area of town...does she not have a choice? I can't imagine that she chose to live where she does. Kidist may be mentally ill for all I know, I'm nothing close to a professional. But it's not just because she's a racist.

[Arete]

She's an unashamed racist. Sure there may be some mental illness that keeps her from an understanding that spewing that crap for the world to see puts her in danger, but mental illness is not the cause of her racism.

[sparkles]

I think that racism at it's most basic is a product of nurture rather than nature. The way you're raised, your environment and your life experiences all contribute to your beliefs, so no, I don't believe it's a mental illness in and of itself. But often extreme racism is combined with true mental disorders so it becomes difficult to distinguish one from the other. I'm no expert but I don't believe that racism on its own will cause someone to drag an innocent human being to his death behind a pick-up truck for example. Or set fire to someone, or joyfully beat someone to death and so on and so on. There has to be some form of mental illness that drives those extremes (psychopathy, sociopathy...like I said, I'm no expert).

I've only read small bits of Kidist's blog, because ill or not, I can neither understand nor nor abide thinking like hers. It's beyond my comprehension and it disturbs me greatly to the point that I can't even snark on it.

[darkplumaged]

I think the way she interprets other people's actions and reactions to her could be indicative of mental illness. She is paranoid and makes the most bizarre assumptions. But I don't think that racism alone is a mental illness, or necessarily a symptom of one.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think there are aspects of her logic, and the way she interprets things, that suggest of some kind of mental illness. I read one blog post about how the popularity of fantasy movies might be indicative of the coming of a second Holocaust (which she calls 'The great Götterdämmerung').

[JesusFightClub]

I hate Internet diagnosis usually, but I think Kidist is authentically mentally ill.

1. She has no close friends or family (that she speaks about on the blog) and she ascribes to complete strangers either very malicious intentions or over the top agreement with her, which they display in subtle ways like opening their eyes, failing to disagree with her racist language and looking embarrassed (because they totes agree with her but they are too shy to say). Her understanding of how humans relate to each other is badly skewed.

2. She's paranoid as all heck.

3. She obsesses about topics. I do this too, and I'm bipolar. Kidist obsessively cataloging Why Asians Are Evil sounds like me explaining to a roomful of people about how the firearms unit of the UK police source their weaponry. Neither of us sound right and both of us sound scary.