Olivia from Fresh Modesty is just so adorable

[Witsec7]

I'm kinda laughing at all of this, some preggers college student with her sheitel on all crooked, hunched over the computer mansplaining.

Ok folks I'm opening the pool. Will tomorrow be the first time FJ or moi is called out on a 'fashion' blog?

[tumblingdown]

Formergothardite, I do understand what you're saying. What I have been saying all along, however, is that your modesty paradigm is flawed in that it assumes universality. If you want to claim that I am immodest in actions based on a blog where I post pictures of what I wear as I go about my day, you have the right to do so. Just as I have the right to tell you that I do not consider it immodest. We clearly have rather different understandings of modesty. Which is my point. As I said before, I don't consider my actions immodest (yes, even according to your definition. I don't claim to be a great beauty or have fantastic style, but rather see the blog as a photodiary of my daily outfits for myself and others who are sorting through some of the tricky boundaries of modest dressing), but you do and I get that. Why don't I post just the outfits? I don't care to take the time to find comparable items on polyvore, find blogs where bodies are pictured without heads pretty creepy, and generally think my awkward poses outweigh the vanity aspect. Though clearly that is not how some others feel.

[tumblingdown]

I'm kinda laughing at all of this, some preggers college student with her sheitel on all crooked, hunched over the computer mansplaining.

Ah, how quickly we go from complaining about body-snarking other women to doing just the same.

[Guest Anonymous]

Ah, how quickly we go from complaining about body-snarking other women to doing just the same.

What now? Are you not pregnant? Stating that someone is pregnant is not body snark. Stating that someone's wig is on crooked is not body snark either. I am anti-body snark and I do not engage in it. Outfit snark on the other hand, is totally fair game if it's on the internet. Since you're in grad school and you can actually string a coherent sentence together I know you're not stupid. You're being deliberately obtuse.

[tumblingdown]

So what are the parameters of body snark? It must be untrue? It must not refer to removable items (the crooked wig I don't wear?) Calling someone a "pregnant college student" is a clear use of both age and current body status a criticism. My fetus isn't an outfit I remove at the end of the day, and using it to ridicule me is body snark, plain and simple.

ETA: I mention this only because I was accused of body snark for using the term "real-sized women." I'm not particularly hung up about this issue.

[formergothardite]

Formergothardite, I do understand what you're saying. What I have been saying all along, however, is that your modesty paradigm is flawed in that it assumes universality. If you want to claim that I am immodest in actions based on a blog where I post pictures of what I wear as I go about my day, you have the right to do so. Just as I have the right to tell you that I do not consider it immodest. We clearly have rather different understandings of modesty. Which is my point. As I said before, I don't consider my actions immodest (yes, even according to your definition. I don't claim to be a great beauty or have fantastic style, but rather see the blog as a photodiary of my daily outfits for myself and others who are sorting through some of the tricky boundaries of modest dressing), but you do and I get that. Why don't I post just the outfits? I don't care to take the time to find comparable items on polyvore, find blogs where bodies are pictured without heads pretty creepy, and generally think my awkward poses outweigh the vanity aspect. Though clearly that is not how some others feel.

So in your understanding of modesty, it is modest to have a hobby where you do nothing but try and make money by drawing attention to yourself? So as long as you are covered, you can do all you can to attract attention to yourself and this is modest? According to your beliefs? I have just never seen someone define modesty to say that you can be modest and yet attract attention to your dress at the same time.

Modestly vain is a whole new thing for me.

[Guest Anonymous]

So what are the parameters of body snark? It must be untrue? It must not refer to removable items (the crooked wig I don't wear?) Calling someone a "pregnant college student" is a clear use of both age and current body status a criticism. My fetus isn't an outfit I remove at the end of the day, and using it to ridicule me is body snark, plain and simple.

ETA: I mention this only because I was accused of body snark for using the term "real-sized women." I'm not particularly hung up about this issue.

You can't possibly be as stupid as you're pretending to be. Google body snark and read the first ten links. I don't like you, why should I do your legwork? And if you're "not particularly hung up" about it anyway why should I even bother? Right. So I'm not going to. If you want to educate yourself go right ahead.

[Witsec7]

Modestly vain

I think this should be another post count title or whatevah we call them.

[tumblingdown]

"Do nothing but try and make money by drawing attention to myself."

I do a lot more than try and make money. I've connected with many women who feel the blog is a resource to modest dressers, have explored various approaches to modesty, documented shifts in style based on occupation and now a changing body. If you think most small beans bloggers like me make big bucks (or any, really) from their blogs, you are mistaken. The amount of money I have made in no way compensates for the time I've put into the blog, and if I was in in for the money, I'd have quit long ago. I am not so self-deluded as to think it is a vanity-free exercise, but I certainly don't do "all that I can to attract attention to myself." There may be style bloggers that fit that description, but I have a bit more pride than to whore myself out wholesale like that.

And if you think calling someone out on being pregnant as a means of putting her down isn't body snark, you're deluded.

[emmiedahl]

Tumblingdown, there is no rule here against body snark, or vulgarity, or whatever.

If someone says something that offends me, even if it is a veteran queen bee who I love to death, I will say something. And I will explain why I find it offensive, something you seem incapable of doing. "Well you did it toooooooo!" does not count. I have offended people here and we have dealt with it like grown ups. If you have a problem, articulate the problem. And then be prepared for a response. This is what happened to you earlier on the thread. Please observe how the discussion went down because it is an example of putting on big girl panties and dealing with shit.

Nobody called you out on being pregnant ffs. Get over yourself.

[Witsec7]

And if you think calling someone out on being pregnant as a means of putting her down isn't body snark, you're deluded.

Actually pregnancy isn't a pejorative, nor did I use it as a pejorative. Again you twist what I write.

[tumblingdown]

Emmie, I never said that these comments were against the FJ standards. I am pretty sure that I am allowed to call someone's language (completely unnecessarily) coarse or to point out the irony that I was called out on body snark by a poster who turned around and did it to me (yes, I consider the comment "pregnant student with her sheitel on crooked" being called out for being pregnant). I explained why my original comment was not intended as snark, but you must have missed that. Convenient.

[formergothardite]

You are still whoring yourself out. I mean, you make money (even if it is a little bit) by getting people to look at you. If it was just advice or looking at clothes you could give the advice or hang your outfits up on hangers or something so people can see them, but you want to include yourself. You admit that this is vain, so in your understanding of modesty is it modest to have a hobby that depends on getting people to look at you?

Can you be modestly vain in your definition of modesty and if so, is that better than showing more skin but not being vain?

[tumblingdown]

Actually pregnancy isn't a pejorative, nor did I use it as a pejorative. Again you twist what I write.

Oh, so it must have been meant as a compliment. Your words didn't need to be twisted, you were abundantly clear.

[emmiedahl]

We have had lots of unmolested pregnant women on here and probably still do.

Maybe you should go knit something and post more "modest" photos of how awesome you are. I don't think freejinger is your cuppa.

[Guest Anonymous]

Emmie, I never said that these comments were against the FJ standards. I am pretty sure that I am allowed to call someone's language (completely unnecessarily) coarse or to point out the irony that I was called out on body snark by a poster who turned around and did it to me (yes, I consider the comment "pregnant student with her sheitel on crooked" being called out for being pregnant). I explained why my original comment was not intended as snark, but you must have missed that. Convenient.

I hope you don't bring the same intellectually lazy attitude that you've demonstrated here to your classes. Why are you here again? Because it looks like shit stirring for page views to me.

**People of the hive - my first professional mani/pedi was heavenly. The American manicure came out exactly the way I wanted it, and the massage chair was fabulous.

[slickcat79]

I was just coming over to post about this. For someone who seems a little obsessive about taking care of her skin... :lol:

Also, in one of her posts she shared that she got a "Princess Bible" for Christmas. It's, uh, very grown up... http://www.amazon.com/Princess-Bible-In ... 702&sr=8-2

Edit: Just went to look at her latest outfit. Hot. Mess.

Edit again: This is pure fundy gold (guest post): "It was very hot and I saw the way the Orthodox Jewish women wrap their hair in patterned scarves. It looked so light, breezy and cool! We walked by a shop with head scarves and I knew what I wanted to do. I picked a patterned blue, white, purple and silver scarf and asked the lovely lady behind the counter to tie my hair up. Well, she was not too thrilled by that request after asking if I was married. She told me that only married Orthodox Jewish women wrap their hair. Who knew? But I was persistent and she showed me how. After that cultural experience, we got some passion fruit juice and lattes to take the edge off of the heat. Oh, and did it kill me to be mindful of another culture, to be respectful of my elders and to honor God at these holy sites? Not a chance! It was a great reminder that no matter what, modesty is always in!" That's exactly what you were doing. Respecting their culture. :doh: freshmodesty.blogspot.com/2012/08/friends-of-fresh-modesty-bianca-natasha.html

:shock: Seriously? You are not being mindful of another culture when you twist their traditions to suit yourself because you think it looks cute. You are not respecting your elders when you push them to do something they don't want to do, especially when they are doing you a favor.

[formergothardite]

I'm wearing a skirt and a rather modest shirt this evening. Can we please all start focusing on me and how wonderfully modest I am? Please discuss me and my modesty. It will help if you tell me how great I look because I am vain, but covered up, so I'm modest and that is all that matters.

If you send me money you can actually see a picture of my outfit. The person who sends me the most money will get a picture of me in the outfit. I will be twirling while gazing down in demure way. This is my new hobby. It is modest. And modest is the hottest.

[Witsec7]

**People of the hive - my first professional mani/pedi was heavenly. The American manicure came out exactly the way I wanted it, and the massage chair was fabulous.

Mazel Tov on the freshly done fingers and toes! What color?

[Guest Anonymous]

Mazel Tov on the freshly done fingers and toes! What color?

Blue Rhapsody on the toes - shiny and metallic!

[bananacat]

Shocker, Experiencedd dislikes something I said and expressed it in the coarsest manner possible! B5Snowdog, of course every woman has a real-sized body. I use the term here as it is commonly used in the fashion blogosphere to refer to bodies that look like the average woman's body that you'd see walking down the street. Not necessarily plus-sized, but certainly not the size 0 of the fashion world. See http://www.curvygirlguide.com/curvy-pop ... yle-icons/

Tone-trolling? Really? Experiencedd can express her opinion in any damn way she pleases, course or not. You're a newbie here and just like many other newbs, you feel like you can just hand-slap regulars and that everyone will agree with you.

[formergothardite]

I'm going to be modestly sulking over here because NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT ME!

My new blog will be www.modestlyme.pleaselookatme.com

Since I am so wonderful, here is my first modest tip:

Modesty best demonstrated when you bring attention to how you are dressed and get people to talk about how modest you are.

[Sister Mozz]

When I saw how much this thread had jumped, I hoped it was because Olivia herself had shown up.

Do you think she found us? The post with the breast-accentuating purple dress has been taken down. Hmmm...

[Cran]

Well... that escalated quickly! :shock:

Can't even go to sleep with some random fundie shitting on the carpet, really.

[Guest Anonymous]

A few months ago, I fell down the rabbit hole of American Jewish blogs (Skylar, Chaviva, Erika Davis, etc.). I clicked on links to new blogs wherever I found them. Even though they all had some really grating aspects, alltumbledown was the one that really stopped me in my tracks. There is just no way to get interested in looking at so many pictures of one person's clothes.

Oh, you're wearing the grey sweater today? How thrilling. :roll:

tumblingdown is right about there being more than one meaning of the word 'modesty'. But those meanings are not unrelated! If, like Olivia, you see being 'modest' as being a sweet little woman who dresses in a way that does not draw unnecessary attention to yourself, then creating a blog that is full of pictures of yourself IS. DOING. IT. WRONG.

Oh, how I've missed the unnecessary Caps Lock!