No Handsex !!

[IReallyAmHopewell]

THINK OF THEIR INNOCENCE!

What could be left after the way the Duggar parents carry on??

And, after Michael's birth I wouldn't be surprised if we get a blurred photo of the next Duggar conception.

[doggie]

I've just started to wonder just how many of these 'pure' marriages are consummated that night. My guess is not that many, since nerves would make it horribly painful for the girl, if the guy could even get it up! Going from 0 to baby-making is a horrible thing to force on your children. It's unnatural. Not even any hugging! Is hugging really that bad?!

I am sure he gets it up for about 5 seconds.

[doggie]

I say parents your children are adults butt the fuck out you are not responsible how they treat their future spouse. and courtship is man made sorry to break that too you.

[bananacat]

I'm actually perfectly fine with premarital sex, but even among those who want their kids to wait, I think it's a reasonable rule that anything you could do with your similarly-aged sibling of the other sex is appropriate to do with your fiance. So kissing, holding hands, hugging, and talking on the phone privately should all be fine.

[emmiedahl]

I've held hands with friends, female friends that I was not attracted to in any way. I'll be happy to miss out on the Duggar style hand sex, though.

It must be hard to go from zero to sex on your wedding night. I am not a prude, but I like relationships that progress slowly on a physical level. When I was single, I might hold hands and kiss on the first date, then kiss more on the second, then progress to making out, and finally have sex months into the relationship when I am comfortable. How horrible to have your first sexual touch be while losing your virginity, with the bleeding and discomfort. It must be terrifying for everyone involved.

[SinInTheCamp]

What could be left after the way the Duggar parents carry on??

And, after Michael's birth I wouldn't be surprised if we get a blurred photo of the next Duggar conception.

That will take a very fast camera. :whistle:

[LynnKaboom]

I remember reading online once that there's some culture that thinks it's corruption to actually touch your spouse anywhere other than necessary while having sex, and that you can't see them, so they make babies through having sex through a hole in the sheet.

That's probably what's next.

[lilah]

This constant re-upping of demonstrations of holiness and purity and godliness and the rest is simply inane. What's next? We kept two feet away from each other until we married! We put a curtain between us when we met in person before we married! We only spoke on the telephone before we married and all four of our parents, the leader of our home church and Doug Phillips were on the telephone extensions with us! Well, we only communicated by letters that were carefully screened by our parents, Bill Gothard, the full compliment of Vision Forum Interns, and all of my 15 siblings! Oh yeah, well we never bothered to talk at all before marriage -- it was totally arranged by our parents -- in fact, we didn't even get married in the same room, but did it by intercom!

They could take notes from how some arranged marriages work in India where in some cases you pick your spouse out based on a photograph the matchmaker shows you. And in some extreme cases you don't meet your intended until your wedding day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arranged_m ... s_in_India

[browngrl]

Well of course!!

I say: NO LOOKING , NO SPEAKING, NO LISTENING or ANY CONTACT WHAT SO EVER with the person you intend to spend the rest of your life with. If you were to make contact with your spouse to be you might learn something about them and we all know that learning is the devil's business. :D

[liltwinstar]

I personally think that all of hese parental rules about 6 inches, no touch, whatever have WAY more to do with the parents being uncomfortable with their children's emerging sexuality than it does with anything resembling "purity". The parents don't want to be grossed out by their kids making out with their boyfriends/girlfriends so they make up a bunch of rules...I mean, God tells the to make rules.

[xReems]

They could take notes from how some arranged marriages work in India where in some cases you pick your spouse out based on a photograph the matchmaker shows you. And in some extreme cases you don't meet your intended until your wedding day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arranged_m ... s_in_India

My grandparents (dad's parents) marriage was an arranged marriage but my grandmother did not know how he looked like until the day of the wedding. Luckily, my parents don't believe in arranged marriages, although their marriage was sort of arranged, but there are still some cultures who believe in strict arrange marriages. One of my mom's friend and her husband already knew who their daughter was going to marry the day she was born.

As for the hand-sex, I got so disgusted with Josh and Anna's constant hand holding. It definitely looked like they were having hand sex because you always saw them holding hands, even during dinner!

I really don't understand couples who don't believe in touching at all before marriage. Holding hands does not lead to sex (hand sex, yes, but not actual sex). If my relationship with my boyfriend was "monitored" and we were not allowed to do anything, I highly doubt it would last. When it's just the two of us, we're able to communicate better and get to know each other better on a more personal level; you can't do that when you have siblings running around you 24/7.

[pomology]

Gnaaaargh! I'm sorry, but I DO believe this is totally one-upmanship if ever I saw it. If this continues, I predict that in a few years' time all the 'top-fundies' will not even know eachothers' name before they get married! That's how to be Properly Pure!

At the same time it reminds me of the Jewish concept/practice of Shomer Negiah, but though the same in its execution, is actually based on the idea that a menstruating woman is unclean, but since you can't know when each and every woman is having her period, it's safer to not touch them alltogether.

As I understand being Shomer Negiah (which quite frankly, I don't, because I think it is a totally crazy Ortho thing) you can't touch any person of the opposite sex that you are not related to. As much as I think it's crazy, though, it makes more sense than Christian fundies because they only draw the line if you're courting. If you're not courting somebody, fine, you can touch them, but if you are courting, omg, holding hands might lead to hugging, and that might lead to kissing and that might lead to sex.

But ugh, the idea that holding hands is sexual or might lead to something sexual is so fucked up. Holdings hands has practical uses (like making sure that children are safe when they cross the street or keeping close to somebody in a crowded place). If handholding is so special, then how come it's not special when I hold my mother's hand, my little cousin's hand, my friends's hands? If a parents can do something with their child that doesn't have incestuous undertones, anybody should be allowed to do it with anybody else without it having sexual undertones.

I hate these people. :evil:

[emeraldskull]

Holding hands might lead to sex which might lead to dancing.

:twisted:

[ChunkyBarbie]

What could be left after the way the Duggar parents carry on??

And, after Michael's birth I wouldn't be surprised if we get a blurred photo of the next Duggar conception.

Eeeeeeeeew! :shock: :o my brain, my brain!

[ChunkyBarbie]

Holding hands might lead to sex which might lead to dancing.

:twisted:

oh my gravy! Not defrauding English dancing! :lol: That still makes me laugh.. Poor girl.

[darkplumaged]

What I have always wanted to know is why they think the verse, as they interpret it, only applies to engaged couples. Don't they shake hands with their pastors, friends, friends' parents, etc? Why is it okay for Zach Bates to shake hands with Michelle or Jana Duggar but not hold hands with, or put the engagement ring on Sarah Reith? Why is it suddenly bad to touch because they're courting/engaged?

I would looooove to get a satisfactory answer to this from a fundie.

[Stacie]

The minute I heard that Zach and Sarah were going to refrain from holding hands, I could hear Gil and Kelly saying, "Fuck you, Jim Bob and Michelle! We're holier than YOU!!!"

Isn't this escalating one-upmanship is the polar opposite of how true Christians are supposed to behave?

DING DING DING DING DING!!!!! Bingo, you win!

Yup, this is exactly what they shouldn't be doing. Pride in excess....

[ChunkyBarbie]

DING DING DING DING DING!!!!! Bingo, you win!

Yup, this is exactly what they shouldn't be doing. Pride in excess....

Yep!

[formergothardite]

DING DING DING DING DING!!!!! Bingo, you win!

Yup, this is exactly what they shouldn't be doing. Pride in excess....

I bet the Duggars are fuming. They've been out fundied. I wonder if God will lay it on their hearts to give up hand holding the next time their one of their kids court?

[Stacie]

I personally think that all of hese parental rules about 6 inches, no touch, whatever have WAY more to do with the parents being uncomfortable with their children's emerging sexuality than it does with anything resembling "purity". The parents don't want to be grossed out by their kids making out with their boyfriends/girlfriends so they make up a bunch of rules...I mean, God tells the to make rules.

I think it's nothing more than they can say they were better parents and raised better kids than everyone they know. Nobody can say a bad word. How many of these marriages are going to be miserable because they don't know they're incompatible until they're finally allowed to be alone?

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I feel for this young couple--and others raised like this. Remember, like the FLDS, the think they MUST obey all this or they will be sinning and somehow could loose their salvation. It's not a joke to them. How hard to be told everything leads to sin and never be taught about forgiveness.

It's fun to joke and snark and I sure do my share! But I think it's important to remember how serious this is to young people raised this way. Even if they are starting to think its crazy the pressure to "know" it's the only right way is enormous.

[debrand]

I feel for this young couple--and others raised like this. Remember, like the FLDS, the think they MUST obey all this or they will be sinning and somehow could loose their salvation. It's not a joke to them. How hard to be told everything leads to sin and never be taught about forgiveness.

It's fun to joke and snark and I sure do my share! But I think it's important to remember how serious this is to young people raised this way. Even if they are starting to think its crazy the pressure to "know" it's the only right way is enormous.

Some of them don't believe that they can loose their salvation but that, if they don't act in certain ways, they were never saved in the first place.

[emmiedahl]

I feel for this young couple--and others raised like this. Remember, like the FLDS, the think they MUST obey all this or they will be sinning and somehow could loose their salvation. It's not a joke to them. How hard to be told everything leads to sin and never be taught about forgiveness.

It's fun to joke and snark and I sure do my share! But I think it's important to remember how serious this is to young people raised this way. Even if they are starting to think its crazy the pressure to "know" it's the only right way is enormous.

A lot of it does lead to sin potentially, but you learn from mistakes. You are not a 'good person' because you have never had the chance to make a mistake, you are a good person because you have the experience and discernment to make good decisions in any context.

[jericho]

Did Mrs. Bates get permission to share this info? I would be quite upset if my mother was sharing private matters about my relationship on public websites.

[Jamanda]

K, so I got out my Novum Testamentum Graece et Latine, along with my dictionary and online concordance.

1 Corinthians 7.1 reads:

Peri de on egrapsate, kalon anthropo gunaikos me aptesthai.

about that which you wrote to me: "good for man woman not to touch"

IE: what the Corinthians wrote to Paul was that THEY thought a man and woman should not touch.

Also, in this context man and woman is more likey to mean husband and wife (much like at a wedding people are pronounced man and wife, but we all KNOW it means husband and wife), given that Paul then goes on the explain that yes its ideal for people to be celibate, but not within marriage!

Edited for the spelling :s