No Handsex !!

[Avalondaughter]

I agree. Personally, I am saving sex for marriage, and haven't been kissed yet... but at least I know what to expect when the time arrives. I think in the fundie world since you aren't allowed to talk about it or research it or read about it or anything... all you have on the wedding night is what you imagined. But maybe the first kiss is wet, and feels gross. They didn't expect sex to hurt, or they didn't expect to still feel dirty (as others have said, it isn't a switch you can switch on and off!).

It's kinda sad, really. Their whole life is about being a wife and making babies... yet they aren't even able to enjoy the process! :(

Looking at that photo I can't believe you haven't been kissed yet. You're gorgeous! Who wouldn't want to kiss you?

[bananacat]

I was thoroughly disappointed when I had sex the first time. It wasn't the magical rainbows and romance that it was supposed to be. I'm glad that I knew enough about sex to realize that it would get better with practice. I was nervous enough the first time and I didn't have nearly all the hang-ups that fundies have. I also made the wise choice to not lose my V-card to another virgin. I've been with virgins since then and if two virgins go at it, it is exponentially harder to actually achieve sex. Even two people who are not virgins but still inexperienced can have problems. I had a boyfriend when I was 17 that I don't think I technically had sex with for the first 3 or 4 times we tried.

Anyway, at least I had the knowledge to know that you have to practice it and it can get better. It also really helps to masturbate to know what you like, and this is especially important for men so they can learn to get some control over their erections (you can't get your wife pregnant if you orgasm before you even start or if you are too nervous to get it up at all). It's really a shame that they discourage masturbation.

[xReems]

I don't know how you can go from absolutely no touching and then have your first kiss/hug/hand holding/sex all on your wedding day. That, to me, is just crazy.

I don't know, these fundies are just a wee bit obsessed with the whole concept of marriage. I've been with my boyfriend for 3 1/2 years now and are still not engaged. We both really want to be engaged and get married but he just got a job a few months ago and I don't graduate college until December. I would much rather be married when I know he can financially support me and we don't have to constantly wonder if we can afford anything the next month. We both know when that time will be right, but we're still just as happy being together and still getting to know each other.

Another thing, I hope these fundies realize that by being chaperoned and not being able to touch is still going to cause temptation. With how these families work, I'm sure the temptation is crazier. Look at Josh and Anna's engagement period, for example.

*barf*

[moreorlessnu]

I don't know how you can go from absolutely no touching and then have your first kiss/hug/hand holding/sex all on your wedding day. That, to me, is just crazy.

And yet, enough of these fundies are becoming pregnant early enough in the marriage that they must be getting it on rather quickly.

[ems]

LMAO, "the specialness of holding hands." Preschool children hold hands all the time. Are they defrauding their future spouses???

What about churches where people hold hands to pray in a prayer circle? Is that like an ORGY?

What about grade school field trips where they make you hold hands with a "safety buddy"? Maybe THAT'S why they homeschool!

[MojoMama7]

Here's my guess: IF such a courtship occurs (or IS going on) then they can only visit by Skype on a computer screen in front of as much of the family as is home at the time. They would have to stay home (or with another ATI family) if there was a "fellowshipping" visit since they'd be too close!!

I wonder though if it isn't wishful thinking that one of the Duggars/Bates would pair off. After all, how many parents & friends have hoped their kids would marry each other? How often does it really work out that way!!

Last summer (I think?) John David lived with the Bates, allegedly to help them finish their home renovation. Speculation at the time had him paired up with Erin, but if so they are taking the looong, slow road to happily ever after. (Not that there's anything wrong with that; I was thrilled when Jessa and Jinger said they thought it would be a while before John David got married, and if the reason is that he's waiting for his bride to finish fundy college, so much the better.)

[Justme]

And yet, enough of these fundies are becoming pregnant early enough in the marriage that they must be getting it on rather quickly.

Except for the Maxwell wives. Nathan's wife took 4 years before her 1st pregnancy. Chris's wife still isn't after 10 months of marriage.

[Markie]

There's a new post in the Bateses' Updates with more pics of the courting couple. I like the one of the cowboy boots. Typical how sister Michaella had to bring lil' buddy Addalee (sorry can't remember how to spell their names) when it was her turn to chaperone. I wonder if they will hold hands once they are engaged? I don't think Josh and Anna held hands during their courtship, but waited until they were engaged. Interesting but strange for me. Whatever floats their boat...

[xReems]

There's a new post in the Bateses' Updates with more pics of the courting couple. I like the one of the cowboy boots. Typical how sister Michaella had to bring lil' buddy Addalee (sorry can't remember how to spell their names) when it was her turn to chaperone. I wonder if they will hold hands once they are engaged? I don't think Josh and Anna held hands during their courtship, but waited until they were engaged. Interesting but strange for me. Whatever floats their boat...

I think Kelly said that they have decided to refrain from holding hands, kissing, hugging, etc until marriage to make it "that much more special." I'm guessing watching Josh and Anna have disgusting hand sex constantly made them want to wait until marriage.

Ew, I think I almost barfed up my Chick-Fil-a sandwich just thinking about the hand sex. bleeeeh.

[ophelia]

[Dinorah]

Does everything have to be made a big deal of? Soon they'll lock kids home until marriage, so as to preserve the specialness of looking into each other's eyes or of hearing each other's voices...

[fundifugee]

Bet Zach and co. came up with that rule just because has super sweaty hands that would send Sarah running off in the other direction with terrible thoughts of being fondled by a pair of dead fish. Antiperspirant works too, Zach.

[Sarah]

I'm Orthodox and was shomer negiyah (well, still am, but I'm married) and it's really not as awful as it's being described:) For me, the emotional connection was very strong, so it didn't take too long for the physical aspect to catch up. There's no pressure to go "all the way" that first night, and many people don't, instead taking time to enjoy each other and letting it happen when it feels right. While I don't have anything to compare it to, obviously, having my first experience with someone who I loved and felt completely comfortable with was wonderful. I have fond memories!

[nutella addict]

I'm glad to hear not everyone tries to rush it on the wedding night. I'd have to say though, I know a lot of people who didn't wait/aren't waiting for marriage, but are waiting/did wait for a very committed, long-term, comfortable relationship as well, made the emotional connection well in advance, and followed with the physical aspects at their own pace, but had, for example, as much as three years between their first kiss with that partner and ultimately going all the way, and many of these people are marrying that one person they went all the way with, and so have only been with that person. I think if they're dating for several years before that, it seems fairly natural not to make it the whole time, and the length of time between each step of intimacy is allowed to be more gentle/relaxed/natural than holding everything for the wedding night/honeymoon. I feel like there's a lot of misconception that if you weren't a virgin at your wedding, you/your partner had other sexual partners besides. That said, I'm glad you had such a wonderful experience, and I think it could be the same for many other people, including these two, it's just that if they're taught it's sinful and aren't used to touching each other at all, it might be at least a little awkward to try to do it all maybe not the first night, but in the span of a few months so that they can start filling their quiver. Of course, they are married, so I guess they do have plenty of time to figure it out.

[Sarah]

I hear that--Judaism has a pretty different attitude towards sex than Christianity (from what I understand), so that may make a difference. But sometimes things that look crazy from the outside can be just fine in reality.

[Childless]

Yeah, this makes no sense whatsoever. Not only did I kiss, hug, and hold hands with my husband before we were married, but we had sex on our third date. After that, I spent every weekend, all weekend, at his place (mostly because we worked opposite shifts and weren't able to see each other at all during the week). We're now married and have a beautiful little boy. Sex before marriage (as well as kissing, hugging, etc.) doesn't seem to have harmed our marriage in anyway. Neither have previous relationships (this is my husband's second marriage, so I was under no impression he was a virgin when we met). We get along amazingly well. We parent together wonderfully. We love each other unconditionally (and yes, we said I love you before we were married). We have a great life.

In my opinion, fundies are full of shit. Their marriages are not any better than our marriage regardless of the fact that they courted and we dated or they were virgins on their wedding night and we were not.

[Kitten]

Zach and his intended may not be holding hands, but they are getting as close as possible in those pictures. Oooh, our elbows/shoulders/fingertips are "almost" touching - I feel tingly all over!

If you moisturize your elbows, can you defraud your partner?

Bwahahahahaha... :lol:

[moreorlessnu]

He's leaning into her in some of the photos, so it looks like there is some chemistry. I hope so. I would hate to think that anyone would be trapped into a chemistry-less marriage.

[moreorlessnu]

Yeah, this makes no sense whatsoever. Not only did I kiss, hug, and hold hands with my husband before we were married, but we had sex on our third date. After that, I spent every weekend, all weekend, at his place (mostly because we worked opposite shifts and weren't able to see each other at all during the week). We're now married and have a beautiful little boy. Sex before marriage (as well as kissing, hugging, etc.) doesn't seem to have harmed our marriage in anyway. Neither have previous relationships (this is my husband's second marriage, so I was under no impression he was a virgin when we met). We get along amazingly well. We parent together wonderfully. We love each other unconditionally (and yes, we said I love you before we were married). We have a great life.

In my opinion, fundies are full of shit. Their marriages are not any better than our marriage regardless of the fact that they courted and we dated or they were virgins on their wedding night and we were not.

:clap:

(I'm applauding you on both counts; your happy marriage and the fundies' false belief(s) that their marriages are better than yours.)