Joseph Maxwell and Elizabeth share their heartwarming tale.

[Irishy]

I know the gypsy and Irish traveller communities don't consummate their marriages on the wedding night. Just some kissing and the sex happens after a few weeks of 'getting to know eachother'. Maybe that's what will happen here. I mean, how could they do it? All that guilt from years of ignorance and being told sex is duuurty. The fear must be intense.

[ophelia]

What I find most alarming in this situation is that Joseph went to visit Elizabeth and her family, but Elizabeth has not had the opportunity to travel to Kansas to observe her betrothed in his natural habitat. Therefore, she has no idea what it's really like in Maxwell land-- and she's expected to live there! Her daddy who is giving the stamp of approval here doesn't know, either.

That was my thought, too. She is going to land hard on the ground when she realizes where she was married into.. that will probably happen a few weeks after the wedding. Or even during the wedding ceremony when it is going to be all about death and sin..

[luckystone]

Talking to some of the fundy neighbors, one of the mothers says that she has advised all her daughters to wait and take their time consummating the marriages and her husband has had a talk with the future husbands advising them to work into an intimate relationship. These fundies aren't quite the Maxwell level but kind of Duggarish on many issues but not quite as crazy.

Well that's good, I guess

[LucySnowe]

I'm really not seeing an ecstatic bride-to-be in that picture. Meanwhile, Joe's all smug and 'gonna get SEXYTIMES oh yeah'.

What worries me is that she doesn't have any obvious out. Her parents are doling out the Kool-aid, so she's not going to get any support from them if/when she realises it's all been a horrible mistake. Argh.

[Justme]

What I find most alarming in this situation is that Joseph went to visit Elizabeth and her family, but Elizabeth has not had the opportunity to travel to Kansas to observe her betrothed in his natural habitat. Therefore, she has no idea what it's really like in Maxwell land-- and she's expected to live there! Her daddy who is giving the stamp of approval here doesn't know, either.

This is the fault of Liz's parents. They should be "grown up" enough to put the breaks on the "relationship" and slow it down. They should have told Joe he needed to court Liz for a minimum of 4-6 months. They should have brought the whole family to Kanas for "fellowship". (At least NR Anna's parents did this before they sold released her to Chris.) They should have stated they need another 4-6 months to plan the wedding.

It is possible they did visit KS and neither family blogged about it. However, judging by the comments, it doesn't sound like it.

[Rosie]

This is the fault of Liz's parents. They should be "grown up" enough to put the breaks on the "relationship" and slow it down. They should have told Joe he needed to court Liz for a minimum of 4-6 months. They should have brought the whole family to Kanas for "fellowship". (At least NR Anna's parents did this before they sold released her to Chris.) They should have stated they need another 4-6 months to plan the wedding.

It is possible they did visit KS and neither family blogged about it. However, judging by the comments, it doesn't sound like it.

I completely agree with this.

[kpmom]

I completely agree with this.

+1

I really believe the Munck's were pushing/hoping for a courtship for Elizabeth with a Maxwell son. According to Joseph's post, the Munck's came to "several" Maxwell conferences before Joseph got the word from God that she was "The One".

How easy is it for a self-employed family to take all that time off going to conferences? They just recently went to Doug's too.

I think they are actively looking to marry off their daughters.

[HoneyBunny]

What I find most alarming is all the time effort being spent on the damn house, instead of the relationship. Maybe Elizabeth could have been there working on the house too? Some side-by-side days spent trying to accomplish something hard would be at least a little practice for marriage. All the focus on the house reminds me of girls who spend months planning THE WEDDING, not realizing that that's really not the point of it all.

The marriage will last, regardless. They may have nothing in common but the inevitable children, but that will keep them going for 25-35 years. After that, they'll be too entrenched to consider ending it, and the grandchildren will start arriving and that will give them something else to focus on once again.

These courtship stories slay me. It's like a whole "and then a MIRACLE happens" thing, hazy smoke and the sound of bells, and, voila- it's a marriage!

[singsingsing]

I think Elizabeth's parents are diving head first deep into fundamentalism now and are obsessed with doing everything they can to be accepted by the people they look up to... and they're ready throw their own daughter under the bus to further their ambitions. The Maxwells say jump, and they jump. What would have been the harm in taking things a little be slower? I think Elizabeth's parents are starstruck by the Maxwells. The Maxwells can do no wrong in their eyes, so courtship was really just a formality.

[thoughtful]

I think Elizabeth's parents are diving head first deep into fundamentalism now and are obsessed with doing everything they can to be accepted by the people they look up to... and they're ready throw their own daughter under the bus to further their ambitions. The Maxwells say jump, and they jump. What would have been the harm in taking things a little be slower? I think Elizabeth's parents are starstruck by the Maxwells. The Maxwells can do no wrong in their eyes, so courtship was really just a formality.

This.

I imagine that they don't know about the Maxwell Death Cult and how dreary their lives are, due to only seeing them in the glamorous :roll: atmosphere of events where they are the big stars.

Or, worse, they are so drunk on the Kool-Aide that they like that dour view of life now.

As ever, with all of the fundies, my main thought is "those poor kids."

[Coconut Flan]

The speed of this courtship and engagement is very troubling and unnerving. The fear that drives so many fundy lives is terrible for them and they don't realize it. I wish Elizabeth's parents seemed more concerned with protecting her and her rights rather than what seems to be the search for approval and acceptance of them.

[Sola]

What annoys me about this whole arranged marriage thing - and it IS an arranged marriage, not a courtship no matter what they say - is that not once in these fundie families have I heard of the girl initiating a courtship. I have never heard of a girl saying to her father, 'dad, the lord laid it on my heart about Joe Blogs, I think he could be the one who the lord has set aside for me. Will you pray about it and speak to his dad?'

The girls are supposed to wait until they are noticed, which in the case of Sarah Maxwell, doesn't seem to be happening any time soon.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Honestly, considering their limited interaction beforehand, it's a bit like a one night stand, except it continues forever. But that's soooo godly and pure :roll:

A one life stand, perhaps?

I agree it's not QUITE like arranged marriages because with this "courting" business it seems the guy has some shred of choice in the matter but it seems the girl doesn't. Does she at least have right of refusal?

Most arranged marriages I've known involve a matchmaker and both sides have similar amounts of control - either a bit on both sides, or none for anyone. Here it seems Joseph got to choose (though granted it's not sure how much, given his lifestyle) and Elizabeth didn't know until it was all pretty much signed, sealed, and delivered. There was no sequence of five resumes and she chose, or anything.

Plus as others said too, the traditional arranged marriages (or arranged dating) I've known, people were honest about what it was, none of this "oh it's God's will" crap, no, it's how do we join two households to make an economic unit, and hopefully you get along as friends right away so then you will build love.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Love how God pulled the date out of nowhere for the wedding..........

[Morton Fan]

Love how God pulled the date out of nowhere for the wedding..........

I thought this was hilarious, too. Bear in mind, EVERY SINGLE COUPLE who is married had set a wedding date at some point - it's no elusive feat.

[Prek teach]

Well didn't God find the venue for Christopher's wedding?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

What annoys me about this whole arranged marriage thing - and it IS an arranged marriage, not a courtship no matter what they say - is that not once in these fundie families have I heard of the girl initiating a courtship. I have never heard of a girl saying to her father, 'dad, the lord laid it on my heart about Joe Blogs, I think he could be the one who the lord has set aside for me. Will you pray about it and speak to his dad?'

The girls are supposed to wait until they are noticed, which in the case of Sarah Maxwell, doesn't seem to be happening any time soon.

Yeah. The asymmetry is striking. There doesn't seem to be any way for the girl to go to the "matchmaker" in any way. She can't think "I'm ready to get married, let me see who is available" or "let it be known that I'm in the market, send me some resumes" or anything.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Isn't the announcement of her "graduation" from homeschool her "coming out party" in the Victorian sense of now being of "marriagable age"?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Have Steve and Teri ever written how they ended up together? Did they have the privilege of dating like JBoob and J'chelle did?

As far as I know, they met in COLLEGE. Can you believe it? They dated in college and only were "saved" after they were already together.

And yes educated adults in other cultures choose arranged marriages. But in these cultures as in the culture of my own grandmothers, they do not attempt to dress up what they are doing as God's will, and there is no expectation of being "in love". Basically, you know from the start you are building a relationship from the bottom up. None of this "the Lord put this on my heart.....", more like she/he is from a good family, is educated or has an inheritance, I don't need to put a paper bag over his/her head when I look at them.

THIS. Regular arranged marriages (of various methods) don't deny what they are, and people have expectations based on that knowledge. People start off as essentially roommates. Sometimes they STAY as essentially roommates, if things just don't go well. Things go well, and they progress to friends through shared struggle and then love. It's more like starting a business, if that makes any sense. Planned. People chosen to fill roles. And behind it all is just a human matchmaker.

But with this fundie courtship stuff, it seems (as with so much of the rest of the weird radical new fundie culture that likes to pretend it's traditional) they want to pick and choose aspects from various times and places and societies and mash it all up. So they're going to do a sort of almost-arranged-marriage, and yet at the same time they tart it up as God's Will with all the "laid it on my HEART" talk so of course they're ALSO expected to be in romantic love. It just clashes.

[ncb]

This whole thing is so sad. I do blame her parents. They are marrying her off like a piece of meat. Joseph clearly knows nothing about life and simply knows he has been ordained by God to be king of his castle and possess a wife. I find the line about no touching and moral failure to be interesting. I wonder what Nathan and Melanie think as they DID touch when they were engaged (though no kissing). I am guessing God has told Steve that that he was wrong in Nathan's case and has "punished" this moral failure with fertility issues and only girl children. These people are so sick. I can only imagine Elizabeth's first days in that home with a husband she barely knows, none of the things she is used to, and hovering in-laws with incredibly rigid expectations. I believe her parents were scared by her father's cancer and rather than stopping having kids they couldn't support if he died, they have just started marrying them off to reduce costs in the event he doesn't live to a ripe old age. You also know Steve would never marry off one of his girls after such a quick courtship, he would likely vet a suitor far more stringently than any one of his daughters-in-laws parents did when they allowed them to marry Maxwell boys. This is so maddening!!!

[ncb]

I was also thinking that while NR Anna was only 24 when she married Christopher and while she too was clearly not terribly involved in her choice of a husband, it seems that she somehow was more prepared or maybe she was even less accustomed to the normal world than Elizabeth. Seems like with every Maxwell marriage courtships get shorter and the women get younger. Scary.

[PhiMuLady]

I just saw their upcoming schedule - the Maxwells will be about 30 minutes from me in Hammond, LA on October 5th-6th. I want to don a frumper and go so badly! :D

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Elizabeth has been raised to expect this. I guess she could be glad he's close to her age, reasonably attractive, making an attractive home for them (we don't know what she really picked out etc, but I assume she'll be pleased). It could have been a lot worse--an older guy with several kids, or an older guy who never got married and finds himself 40 and "lonely" and needing a "helpmeet" etc. No she didn't get to choose, but in her scheme of things it isn't as bad as it could be. Plus we don't know what goes on in Melanie and Nathan's or Christopher and Anna's homes when Daddy Steve isn't there. For all we know they could have a secret satelite dish in the attic!!!

[Rainbowcolor]

I want to don a frumper and go so badly!

I think it would be interesting to NOT don a frumper and see what kind of reaction you get. I'm thinking of going to one as myself and just asking plain ole "help me understand" questions without any "attitude". Will they be kind and engaging, holier than thou, dismissive or what? Would they ask me to leave if have on my regular non-modest clothes? Would only the women talk to me. Would they divert their eyes from me as an audience member? How would other attendees react? Would I have the whole book table to myself as I browsed?

[Deleted03]

I'm just very disturbed that this is called Joseph and Elizabeth's story when it really is only Joseph's story. In most courtship stories I have read on personal blogs*, both sides describe what they experienced and here we only have Joseph's perspective. This is not her story at all!

* Unless the couple had been married for a long while...