Joseph Maxwell and Elizabeth share their heartwarming tale.

[Marian the Librarian]

Busy busy busy busy busy busy busy busy busy people!!

Well, I guess it's one way to deny clinical depression...

[slickcat79]

Will the Maxwell family "what some may call a vacation" be their honeymoon? On Uriah and sharing a room next to Steve and Teri?

Ha, they'd be lucky to share a room. Elizabeth will probably get a separate bunk with the Maxwell "girls".

[thoughtful]

Wow, those Maxwells really know exactly what God wants, don't they? :roll:

Some word counts:

God - 8

LORD (yes, always all caps) - 6

pray (in some form) - 7

love - 0

What an arrogant, self-righteous version of "I saw her, I wanted her, Dad got her for me."

[jlbturtle]

OK I have to weigh in on this because I'm getting ready to get married. How in the heck do you know someone spending less than 40 hours with that person? I completely don't understand why these relationships are so quick. My FI and I are in our mid-twenties and both decided there were certain parts of our relationships we wanted to save for marriage. We do kiss and hold hands, etc. But unlike these people we dated for a year and a half before getting engaged. Our engagement will be 9 months (getting married in the beginning of Sept yay 5 weeks!), we both work full time and I even own my own home, and yet somehow we've been "adult" enough to save the things we've wanted to for marriage. We didn't need to have a wedding in 30 days. We haven't needed to be "no touch" to keep our purity. AHH fundies "rolls eyes"

[keeperrox]

Have Steve and Teri ever written how they ended up together? Did they have the privilege of dating like JBoob and J'chelle did?

[anniebgood]

Dear Steve,

So what do you get from this bride as a dowry, since basically the parents gave her to your son, albeit your family?

Will you let them be individuals and live their lives or will you cram death and sadness at every available moment?

Someday you will reap what you sow sir. In spades.

PS I don't care if you don't publish my comment, but for God's sake edit the registry at BBB before she actually gets 12 pepper grinders.

[NurseNell]

http://screen.yahoo.com/puppy-tries-to- ... 00834.html

Those puppies are blanket trained! Amazing.

[MamaJunebug]

Wow, those Maxwells really know exactly what God wants, don't they? :roll:

Some word counts:

God - 8

LORD (yes, always all caps) - 6

pray (in some form) - 7

love - 0

What an arrogant, self-righteous version of "I saw her, I wanted her, Dad got her for me."

May I add a sinister version? Steve and Teri keep a hawklike watch on their children, and notice that John seems interested in Elizabeth. When John broaches the possibility that THE LORD may have designed Elizabeth for him (because THE LORD wouldn't just permit a healthy baby girl to be born, oh NO, THE LORD would design a baby girl exclusively "for" some boy), Steve is quick to jump on the "THE LORD put that on my heart, too, boy, let us fast and pray!"

As to Mr. Munck being okay with this? Who knows? I've come to believe that Steve Maxwell did some heinous stuff before he KNEW THE LORD, and his whole deathcult attitude now is out of remorse. Maybe Mr. Munck's history is similar, and to him, to send a daughter into a quickly arranged marriage with a son of a leader of the upright citizens' brigade is a gift from THE LORD. In Heaven.

[Creaky Mom]

That timeline is RIDICULOUS :shock: He visits her to begin the courtship in May, then they get engaged a month later after not even being together half that time? WTF kind of courtship is that? Oh, and this:

Developing a relationship? Yeah, might be nice for you to do that before you get engaged, especially when you live in different states. Also, what normal job does Joseph have, again? Do we know?

Oh I guess this then would explain the whacked out registry.

[marmalade]

Dear Steve,

So what do you get from this bride as a dowry, since basically the parents gave her to your son, albeit your family?

Will you let them be individuals and live their lives or will you cram death and sadness at every available moment?

Someday you will reap what you sow sir. In spades.

PS I don't care if you don't publish my comment, but for God's sake edit the registry at BBB before she actually gets 12 pepper grinders.

Well, since they haven't gotten anything else, other than a couple small items, I wouldn't be be too worried about that. Does Stevie think his followers are made of money? They're going top of the line right out of the gate and are going to pay for it by having all those nice, shiny white cabinets with nothing to put in them. Why not ask for more modest items and work up when money isn't so tight.

[Witsec7]

Dear Steve,

So what do you get from this bride as a dowry, since basically the parents gave her to your son, albeit your family?

Will you let them be individuals and live their lives or will you cram death and sadness at every available moment?

Someday you will reap what you sow sir. In spades.

PS I don't care if you don't publish my comment, but for God's sake edit the registry at BBB before she actually gets 12 pepper grinders.

Steve bought them a house isn't that enough :roll:

[YPestis]

I counted a couple of month for courtship before engagement---that's pretty fast, even by fundie standards! I wonder if either Elizabeth or Joseph understands what's going on. How can two people who've never had interactions with non-familial members of the opposite sex know that they are right for each other so quickly?

That said, I'm not as cynical as some on this board. I believe that the young couple could have an honest attraction to each other. Maybe they harbor a slight crush on each other. The hard part is how well they will get along once the honeymoon is over. Puppy love can turn bad once you start arguing over dirty socks and other mundane things.

I guess one can call this an arranged marriage. However, arranged marriages varies a great deal. Sometimes the couples have some say, other times they don't. The key is that a third party is heavily involved. Both sets of my grandparents had arranged marriages (because that's how you get a spouse in those days). I don't think of arranged marriages in a negative light, especially as there are still educated couples in other countries who still CHOSE this option. Arranged marriages can be as benign as setting couples up under a watchful chaperone and then letting the couple have the final say. My own parents did something to that affect. They felt like they had plenty of control. They liked having their mates "vetted" before meeting them (kind of like a human version of match.com!).

We don't know how much say Elizabeth had. I would hope her parents have the foresight to make sure she was ok with it. Since Joseph made the post and it is the Maxwell blog, I don't think we can conclude Elizabeth had no say. Joseph is a nice looking lad. He's hard working, comes from a well known fundie family. It's not hard to imagine that Elizabeth may find him cute and good husband material. Just because it's a Maxwell courthship doesn't mean there's something neferious behind it. I chalk up the quickness of it to two eager kids who are relatively immature when it comes to these things. Frankly, I don't think they understand there's more to finding a spouse than a superficial attraction.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

That said, I'm not as cynical as some on this board. I believe that the young couple could have an honest attraction to each other. Maybe they harbor a slight crush on each other. The hard part is how well they will get along once the honeymoon is over. Puppy love can turn bad once you start arguing over dirty socks and other mundane things

If these were older adults, who have had previous relationships, I might not be as cynical about a very short relationship before marrying. But they have been very sheltered, and likely don't have the skills to work out these kinds of issues.

[Witsec7]

If these were older adults, who have had previous relationships, I might not be as cynical about a very short relationship before marrying. But they have been very sheltered, and likely don't have the skills to work out these kinds of issues.

Fact is there is no working out of any issues. For the first time in his life the Maxwell child will have control of something, unfortunately in this case it is a human being.

[lilwriter85]

That courtship is very short and after reading that, I think the marriage isn't going to last.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

That courtship is very short and after reading that, I think the marriage isn't going to last.

I think it will "last..." but they will become embittered towards one another, resentful, nd a very likely possibility of abuse.

[Visionoyahweh]

I think it will "last..." but they will become embittered towards one another, resentful, nd a very likely possibility of abuse.

It'll last. Many miserable marriages are able to cost on autopilot for decades.

[FloraDoraDolly]

What I find most alarming in this situation is that Joseph went to visit Elizabeth and her family, but Elizabeth has not had the opportunity to travel to Kansas to observe her betrothed in his natural habitat. Therefore, she has no idea what it's really like in Maxwell land-- and she's expected to live there! Her daddy who is giving the stamp of approval here doesn't know, either.

[lilith]

That courtship is very short and after reading that, I think the marriage isn't going to last.

It has to last. Both parties have been brainwashed from birth to believe that divorce is not just wrong but doesn't exist. No matter what a civil court might say, they believe that they are married forever once they make those vows.

Neither family would support their child if they sought a divorce, and pretty soon they will be having a baby every eighteen months, making it incredibly difficult for Elizabeth to leave if she came to want out, especially without family support.

All of the above makes the short courtship and lack of getting to know each other even scarier. They are tying themselves together forever with no way out, and they really don't know each other or even themselves. Both of the, have had every moment of their lives planned and controlled for them, but as soon as they say the magic words they are meant to be a functioning adult couple in a world they have been shielded from. I feel for them both.

[darkplumaged]

It has to last. Both parties have been brainwashed from birth to believe that divorce is not just wrong but doesn't exist. No matter what a civil court might say, they believe that they are married forever once they make those vows.

Neither family would support their child if they sought a divorce, and pretty soon they will be having a baby every eighteen months, making it incredibly difficult for Elizabeth to leave if she came to want out, especially without family support.

All of the above makes the short courtship and lack of getting to know each other even scarier. They are tying themselves together forever with no way out, and they really don't know each other or even themselves. Both of the, have had every moment of their lives planned and controlled for them, but as soon as they say the magic words they are meant to be a functioning adult couple in a world they have been shielded from. I feel for them both.

So true.

I think it's very possible that they're attracted to each other, but they don't know each other at. all. I guess they just TRUST THE LORD that it will all work out. And maybe it will, but it's just as likely that they are completely incompatible and will have to suffer quietly for decades.

Maxwell courtships are becoming increasingly bizarre and restrictive. Pretty soon Stevie will be arranging weddings between his sons and young women they've been allowed to look at one photo of, once, for precisely five seconds. No actual interaction means no moral failings!!11!!!

[Jessica]

One of my old bishops gave me some pretty good advice when I was engaged: date/court/get to know each other long enough to go through at least a few unfortunate/stressfull events so you can see each other at your worst, instead of rushing through and only seeing the happy puppy love side.

[awmom]

I wonder if they all have sex. It does seem to be expected for the wedding night, but maybe some don't.

Honestly, considering their limited interaction beforehand, it's a bit like a one night stand, except it continues forever. But that's soooo godly and pure :roll:

Ok, this totally made me think of this awesome Onion article: http://www.theonion.com/articles/horrib ... -the,1614/

[Arete]

If these were older adults, who have had previous relationships, I might not be as cynical about a very short relationship before marrying. But they have been very sheltered, and likely don't have the skills to work out these kinds of issues.

YPestis, yes they have an attraction to each other. And yes educated adults in other cultures choose arranged marriages. But in these cultures as in the culture of my own grandmothers, they do not attempt to dress up what they are doing as God's will, and there is no expectation of being "in love". Basically, you know from the start you are building a relationship from the bottom up. None of this "the Lord put this on my heart.....", more like she/he is from a good family, is educated or has an inheritance, I don't need to put a paper bag over his/her head when I look at them. And before the advent of genetic testing, they were looking at genetic markers like how sick or healthy the bride/groom's parents are, was the bride's mother able to have children fairly easily, does the groom WEAR GLASSES!

It's this window dressing of the LORD, I prayed and fasted over it, she was put on my heart, that makes it so CREEPY. No, God had nothing to do with this. Parents controlling their children's lives had everything to do with this. I'm not so much cynical as horrified by the regression. I don't want us to go back to the days where women were negotiated over like this. This girl is 20 years old, with minimal education and no marketable skills. She is trapped if things go south.

[Wandering]

My heart absolutely breaks for Elizabeth. She's around my age and I in no way could imagine myself married even with my somewhat secular life experiences. She's been treated as a child for all of her life and is now expected to be a full grown adult in one day. I don't know about the rest of you but losing my virginity was extremely sloppy, painful, and awkward and that was with a boyfriend of over a year. Can you imagine doing that with basically a stranger? *smh* I'll be praying for her alright but probably not in the way the Maxwells expect.

[Coconut Flan]

I wonder if they all have sex. It does seem to be expected for the wedding night, but maybe some don't.

Talking to some of the fundy neighbors, one of the mothers says that she has advised all her daughters to wait and take their time consummating the marriages and her husband has had a talk with the future husbands advising them to work into an intimate relationship. These fundies aren't quite the Maxwell level but kind of Duggarish on many issues but not quite as crazy.