the fundie royalty have a pow-wow

[Lady_M]

Re: the fundie royalty have a pow-wow

I still haven't come up with grooms for the Botkinettes. Any ideas?

That's the problem, I think the Botkinettes are in the weird position of at once parroting all kinds of VF womanhood bullshit about submission and a woman's place, but appear to be somewhat independent with all their conferences and speaking and such. With the super-patriarchal values a lot of the men inside VF are raised in, I wonder if despite the fact that the Botkinettes are VF royalty and not bad looking women, the guys sort of instinctively recognize that the Botkinette he marries would have more social status than him or might want to keep writing her books or speaking at conferences instead of devoting herself entirely to serving him. Or that she might want to maintain her lifestyle, which at the Botkinette level requires a fairly good provider. Pretty disgusting, but there it is.

And of course, anyone who wants to marry a Botkinette has to contend with their father...

[formergothardite]

K, I'm fairly new and lost, what the hell is KISA? Knight in Shining Armor? :? lol

Really? We are supposed to believe that you have no idea what KISA stands for and you just happened to guess correctly on your first try? I, personally, would have never been able to figure it out just by looking at KISA.

And with friends like fundies have who are more than happy to dish private info to a forum that snarks on them, they don't need enemies.

[Mjackson264]

Umm, I looked KISA up, btw, so I'm def not flaunting my IQ. It just didn't make sense in the context. And that shit isn't private. Like,

since when are things like, college and girlfriendsdirty secrets? And I think you are probably least qualified to question my friends and relationships since I have no fucking idea who you are or you me.

[medievalist1980]

The Botkinettes (based on their blog post) seem to have only consulted John Foxe's Book of Martyrs for their beliefs on Anne Boleyn's influence on the Protestant Reformation, and Foxe definitely isn't unbiased in his writings.

When I read the Ives book, I understood it that Anne did want to use the money for Protestant and other charitable causes (as Ives notes, "Anne - along with most other prominent reformers - had counted on the endowments being allocated to education or other charitable causes; after all, they represented the charitable donations of past generations" - p. 309) while the powerful Cromwell saw Henry VIII's chronic money problems coming to an end. It didn't really seem to be about Anne's faith - Protestant or otherwise - because Cromwell himself was a strong supporter of the break with Rome and the Reformation. From what I gathered from Ives, Anne's fall appears to come down to money and power games. But if you have a different take on it, I'd love to hear it, I'm a total geek for Tudor history and really enjoy discussing it :D .

I hear you about the Botkinettes never having read Ives...

Gotcha, no, I don't think Anne was martyred for her Protestant faith, but, rather, executed for her charitable impulses. I think you explained Ives much better than I did. I bet they would be scandalized that the book jacket talks about Anne as a feminist! (Which I don't agree with because a feminist, in my mind, wants to help women achieve equality or parity, whereas I think Anne wanted to help her family climb the social hierarchy.) But if it upsets the Botkins - Anne was a feminist!

[formergothardite]

Umm, I looked KISA up, btw, so I'm def not flaunting my IQ. It just didn't make sense in the context. And that shit isn't private. Like,

since when are things like, college and girlfriendsdirty secrets? And I think you are probably least qualified to question my friends and relationships since I have no fucking idea who you are or you me.

Well if you had looked him up then you would have know what he was and why I thought you were speaking of him. So if you already knew why did you say "I'm fairly new and lost, what the hell is KISA?" It makes perfect sense in the context because KISA was a ex-dougie fan who lurks here.

I didn't say dirty secrets, I said private info. I'm taking it the info you have shared was no public on the internet? If there was a forum that snarked and mocked on you, you would think nothing of it if friends went there and told them things that you had not made public?

I have no idea anything about you, but fundies always have friends or friends of friends who come and dish personal info. I don't know people who would do that to me, but fundies make bad friend choices.

[Mjackson264]

I looked up KISA as in on the internet and found out it was an acronym. I still didn't know that KISA was a person until you told me. Sorry for the confusion. I get your point but, isn't one of the purposes of this forum to talk about stuff that people may or may not know about fundies? All I meant to do was to give examples of what appears to be Sam not pulling away from the status quo of fundydom.

[Mjackson264]

*sam pulling away from the status quo sorry!

[Lady_M]

Gotcha, no, I don't think Anne was martyred for her Protestant faith, but, rather, executed for her charitable impulses. I think you explained Ives much better than I did. I bet they would be scandalized that the book jacket talks about Anne as a feminist! (Which I don't agree with because a feminist, in my mind, wants to help women achieve equality or parity, whereas I think Anne wanted to help her family climb the social hierarchy.) But if it upsets the Botkins - Anne was a feminist!

Hear you on that one! :D

[Miggy]

That's the problem, I think the Botkinettes are in the weird position of at once parroting all kinds of VF womanhood bullshit about submission and a woman's place, but appear to be somewhat independent with all their conferences and speaking and such. With the super-patriarchal values a lot of the men inside VF are raised in, I wonder if despite the fact that the Botkinettes are VF royalty and not bad looking women, the guys sort of instinctively recognize that the Botkinette he marries would have more social status than him or might want to keep writing her books or speaking at conferences instead of devoting herself entirely to serving him. Or that she might want to maintain her lifestyle, which at the Botkinette level requires a fairly good provider. Pretty disgusting, but there it is.

And of course, anyone who wants to marry a Botkinette has to contend with their father...

I wrote the Botkins off a long time ago for this exact reason. They might submit to Daddy at home, they might be good at running a household and everything a SAHD should be but when they are out people flock to them. Hey, it's the Botkins. Come and speak at my conference. Sign my book. Pray for me. Smile at me. I am actually reminded of the biblical story of the lady touching Jesus coat because, in her faith, she thought that would be enough to heal her. What fundy boy would want a wife like that?

Quote:Anyone got any other suggestions?

Mary Maxwell can have Josiah Duggar, since the Duggars enjoy having fun and Mary needs to escape from doom and gloom.

Sarah Maxwell can have Donald Staddon - a very boring man, but he likes to travel and so she could help him with his "ministries."

Tori Bates can have Madison Munck. She likes animals and he knows how to take care of them properly.

Jinger Duggar can have Jon, the exchange guy. Why? The Duggars need some ethnic mix and she would enjoy doing some photo shoot in Indonesia.

Anna Maxwell can have one of the Arndt men; I like Mark, so she can have Mark. She will switch to wearing pants, start playing baseball and when her older brothers visit, get them hooked on sport once agian so they allow their little Maxwells to play without guilt.

John Maxwell can marry and join Sarah Reith's family. The Reiths will allow him to play the guitar as much as he wants - they'll even allow him to read music with the words!

Absolutely love all these marriages. A life in Indonesia with Jon would definately free Jinger. :lol:

[MrsKay]

I am feeling SO defrauded right now. :shock: If I weren't suffering the lingering aftermath of some kind of virus, and the horrible effects of having eaten dairy and gluten, I might have woken up my headship. But I'm a sucker for a waistcoat and ascot ties.

Those "Tudor" gowns definitely need to have lower necklines - women pushed their breasts up and out as much as possible back then.

I admit, I freaking love corsets. I love the way they look, and due to having no ab muscles, I love the way they feel. When I was trying on wedding gowns just before I got pregnant with BabyKay (for our vow renewal), I seriously did NOT want to take off the dress I settled on, mostly for the corset factor. It was the first time in years that I didn't feel like I'd fractured something.

Anne Boleyn was quite the little minx, from what I've read. She did her best to break up the marriage between Henry and Katherine, and got knocked up before she was married (although she did make him wait until it was pretty much inevitable immediately). So they admire homewreckers... interesting. Katherine would have been a better choice, religion aside - she doted on her dickwad husband and devoted her life to getting pregnant over and over, despite only having one living child. My second nomination would be Jane Seymour. She died right after she gave Henry his only legitimate son - how much more of a martyr could they ask for?

[lawfulevil]

Katherine would have been a better choice, religion aside - she doted on her dickwad husband and devoted her life to getting pregnant over and over, despite only having one living child. My second nomination would be Jane Seymour. She died right after she gave Henry his only legitimate son - how much more of a martyr could they ask for?

Or Anne of Cleves, for being obediently married off to an ugly old man, submitting to him casting her off for a teenager, and then dying nice and young like a proper childless woman.

[MissBeaufort]

Or Anne of Cleves, for being obediently married off to an ugly old man, submitting to him casting her off for a teenager, and then dying nice and young like a proper childless woman.

I agree that Anne of Cleves would probably make a better model for the Robotkins than Anne would (you'd think the whole "pregnant before married" thing would kick her right off the list), but just wanted to point out that she did actually live into her 40s and died in Mary I's reign. That's young by today's standards, but is pretty respectable for a woman of that time - she did outlive all of his other wives.

And Katherine would definitely be more in line with their beliefs, but Katherine was TEH EBIL CATHOLIC working against the reformation!!1

[gravelmonkey]

Shall we play matchmaker and try and pair them all up? I am thinking the Michaella Bates would make someone a lovely wife but she is too good for any of these boys.

Michaella seems too sweet and loving for patriarchy. I hope she finds a husband that ends up being fundy lite (or not fundy at all!) and moves away with him. I hope he adores her and they live out their days in peaceful privacy. Most of all, I hope she doesn't get stuck caring for her parents for the rest of her life.

[Lady_M]

I agree that Anne of Cleves would probably make a better model for the Robotkins than Anne would (you'd think the whole "pregnant before married" thing would kick her right off the list), but just wanted to point out that she did actually live into her 40s and died in Mary I's reign. That's young by today's standards, but is pretty respectable for a woman of that time - she did outlive all of his other wives.

And Katherine would definitely be more in line with their beliefs, but Katherine was TEH EBIL CATHOLIC working against the reformation!!1

Botkinette disqualification for Anne of Cleves: she actually converted from Protestant to the ebil CATHOLIC religion during the reign of Mary I.

Although, pretty much any of Henry VIII's wives (with the exception of Katherine Howard) would have been more in line with Botkinette beliefs than Anne Boleyn.

[Kitty]

Catherine Parr would be perfect in the Botkinettes' eyes. She was quiet, reserved, feminine, delicate, very smart, and very Protestant. She even argued with Henry about religion (under the pretense of distracting him from his disgusting leg ulcer). A lot of people in the Tudor court were very suspicious of her Protestant beliefs, but she pretended she wasn't really Protestant. She did, however, pass on her beliefs to her stepdaughter Elizabeth.

Her only bad point is that she was married four times (she had been widowed twice before marrying Henry, then he died, she re-married and later died of childbed fever).

Jane Seymour would be perfect too.

[Lady_M]

Catherine Parr would be perfect in the Botkinettes' eyes. She was quiet, reserved, feminine, delicate, very smart, and very Protestant. She even argued with Henry about religion (under the pretense of distracting him from his disgusting leg ulcer). A lot of people in the Tudor court were very suspicious of her Protestant beliefs, but she pretended she wasn't really Protestant. She did, however, pass on her beliefs to her stepdaughter Elizabeth.

Her only bad point is that she was married four times (she had been widowed twice before marrying Henry, then he died, she re-married and later died of childbed fever).

Jane Seymour would be perfect too.

That's what I thought too. And I don't think having been married 4 times would be a problem, as all of Katherine Parr's husbands died (except for Seymour who outlived her) and she was widowed - she didn't divorce anyone.

[ADoyle90815]

I also think Catherine Parr would be the better model, as she was Protestant and influenced her stepdaughter. When she was threatened with a painful execution as a heretic, she said that she had only pretended to argue with Henry to distract him from his ulcer, which saved her life. After that, she kept her Protestant beliefs to herself and appeared to submit to her husband. She was a widow twice before she married Henry, and while she outlived him, she died of childbirth complications in her 4th marriage.

Jane Seymour would also be another model, as once when she argued with Henry about the dissolution of the monasteries, he reminded her of what happened to her predecessor, and she kept her beliefs about the monasteries to herself, plus she provided a living son even though she died as a result.

[Lady_M]

Jane Seymour would also be another model, as once when she argued with Henry about the dissolution of the monasteries, he reminded her of what happened to her predecessor, and she kept her beliefs about the monasteries to herself, plus she provided a living son even though she died as a result.

With a motto like "Bound to obey and serve" (yes, Jane Seymour's real motto as queen) it makes me wonder how could the Botkinettes have overlooked such a woman :? .

[thekate]

Why is it okay for the men to wear skirts (kilts) when the women can't wear pants? I think I even saw some knee!

[emeraldskull]

Why is it okay for the men to wear skirts (kilts) when the women can't wear pants? I think I even saw some knee!

Because their double standard is so wide it almost rivals the Mullet's ladyparts. :shock:

[Kitty]

Why is it okay for the men to wear skirts (kilts) when the women can't wear pants? I think I even saw some knee!

Because kilts are Scottish and manly. Also, God doesn't care what men wear.

[emeraldskull]

Because kilts are Scottish and manly. Also, God doesn't care what men wear.

Exactly! women aren't visually stimulated, so men can wear whatever they want! Even though, yes, skirts/dresses ARE distinctly feminine and pants are, obviously, masculine, there is a special clause there in the unspoken rule that kilts are allowable because the scottish have cute accents and I like the bagpipes.

[clarinetpower]

:character-willie: Plus, kilts are traditionally worn commando.

[Kitty]

:character-willie: Plus, kilts are traditionally worn commando.

And trying to do the splits while still standing up AND wearing a skirt/kilt is Dougie's favorite remedy for swamp balls, apparently.

[Chavymishmacoy]

And trying to do the splits while still standing up AND wearing a skirt/kilt is Dougie's favorite remedy for swamp balls, apparently.

I just snorted/spat/choked reading this. Hahahahaha.