Joy and Austin: Back in Arkansas?

[Lurky]

@Four is Enough With Katy Perry and the kimono, it wasn't just that she was wearing a kimono, it was that she was filling her performance with a ton of stereotypes that border on the racist.  A kimono, in Japan, is a very specific garment, with specific cultural associations.  Perry wore hers with a TON of pretty fetishy-stereotypes from a white USA perspective, that Asian women find deeply uncomfortable.  A lot of that ties into the idea that some Asian women are submissive, gentle etc, and sexualised, and Perry unapologetically waded into that without seeming to care about any of things apart from "oh this looks nice". 

There was a similar thing with Gwen Stefani having 4 Japanese dancers who she treated as accessories rather than as people - they were not allowed to speak when appearing with her, even in interviews, and were named Love, Angel, Music, Baby, and Stefani seemed to be using their bodies as literal props.

So it's not always just about wearing something, or being influenced by a culture, it's about taking the bits that you want and not seeming to give a damn about anything problematic.

A bottom line thing, for me, is that Perry and Stefani could dress up in the stereotypes and treat culture as costume, and walk away from it when they were bored, while Asian women in the west can't do that so easily (of course, as a white woman, I don't have direct experience of it, so many apologies if my words are clumsy)

[Jana814]

24 minutes ago, Italiangirl said:

So they are back from israel in a while now do we have and idea where Joy and Austin live? 

I wonder if they live in one of the houses that Austin was flipping.  

 

[Bethella]

5 minutes ago, Italiangirl said:

So they are back from israel in a while now do we have and idea where Joy and Austin live? 

I found three listings for Austin, two in Springdale and one in Fayetteville. They're probably living in one house and the others are flips, but I don't know which one.

[marmalade]

Austin listed his residence in Fayetteville when they applied for their marriage license back in May. I assume they're living in that house, although the pictures I saw of it made it look like a meth lab. I'm sure they were older pictures, and he's fixed up the place since then. 

I only saw the Fayetteville residence the last time I did a check on him, which was admittedly while they were probably in Switzerland, over a month ago. Sounds like he's scooped up a couple more fixeruppers since they returned home (or on their break between Switzerland and Israel). 

[beepy13]

I'd like to see Joy keep helping Austin with his house flipping projects rather than getting caught up in having babies as soon as possible. It seems like the two of them work well together, and it'd be a nice change from the typical progression of the other Duggar girls. Wishful thinking, I'm sure...

[jqlgoblue]

It will only be a few years before she has some 'helpers' old enough to either sister-mom the kiddos or help Austin with the flips. 

I will say I think she'll project manage the shit out of the family though. That's probably why Austin likes her so much.

[Four is Enough]

Joy would probably be a good general contractor/supervisor/scheduler type of person because she does seem to be able to get people moving.

 

[VBOY9977]

10 hours ago, marmalade said:

Austin listed his residence in Fayetteville when they applied for their marriage license back in May. I assume they're living in that house, although the pictures I saw of it made it look like a meth lab. I'm sure they were older pictures, and he's fixed up the place since then. 

I only saw the Fayetteville residence the last time I did a check on him, which was admittedly while they were probably in Switzerland, over a month ago. Sounds like he's scooped up a couple more fixeruppers since they returned home (or on their break between Switzerland and Israel). 

Is there any way you can post the pictures here, or at least where to find them? I'm not American so I don't really know how all of that works 

[Bethella]

11 hours ago, marmalade said:

Austin listed his residence in Fayetteville when they applied for their marriage license back in May. I assume they're living in that house, although the pictures I saw of it made it look like a meth lab. I'm sure they were older pictures, and he's fixed up the place since then. 

I only saw the Fayetteville residence the last time I did a check on him, which was admittedly while they were probably in Switzerland, over a month ago. Sounds like he's scooped up a couple more fixeruppers since they returned home (or on their break between Switzerland and Israel). 

I was wrong, I did a little more digging- Austin still shows up on the tax records even though the houses have been sold. The Parsons Rd. house in Springdale was a flip, purchased October 29, 2014 and sold October 30, 2015. The Norfolk Ave. house in Springdale was also a flip, purchased September 28, 2016 and sold March 14, 2017. Which means they are living in the Fayetteville house.

[Coconut Flan]

I hope they got a lot of work done on that Fayetteville house before they moved in.

[cascarones]

Cultural Appropriation is especially heated for those of us in interracial relationships from the outside looking in. My friend (who's white) has already lectured me on hoping I won't being appropriating Chinese culture for our wedding "to make it interesting".  Here's the thing, to me doing any ceremonies or rituals that are important to his family isn't appropriation in my book. It's part of becoming a family and I'm sure his Mum will tell us exactly what needs doing and help us sort it, as neither of us know.

We had a talk once about how they only hire people to help at their house who are Asian, because it's a safe job for the women where they aren't someone's fetish and I should take that in consideration if we do the mother's helper route. It just breaks my heart and reinforces how much we all truly have to look out for each other and how we might not see dangers others face.

I wonder if there's any correlation to fundies mainly working with/ hiring others in the circle, because they're afraid of backlash or judgement on their views?

 

[Four is Enough]

36 minutes ago, cascarones said:

I wonder if there's any correlation to fundies mainly working with/ hiring others in the circle, because they're afraid of backlash or judgement on their views?

For a very short time when my children were small, I was lead down the "Focus on the Family" rabbit hole. Advertisers for the local radio station made a VERY BIG THING of hiring tradesmen who were listed in the phone book with the "fish" icon on their ads, as you "knew they were Christian and would do a good job for you."

So I'd say yes. I still see that sign on work trucks around here, and in advertisements.

[HarryPotterFan]

8 hours ago, cascarones said:

Cultural Appropriation is especially heated for those of us in interracial relationships from the outside looking in. My friend (who's white) has already lectured me on hoping I won't being appropriating Chinese culture for our wedding "to make it interesting".  Here's the thing, to me doing any ceremonies or rituals that are important to his family isn't appropriation in my book. It's part of becoming a family and I'm sure his Mum will tell us exactly what needs doing and help us sort it, as neither of us know.

Your friend saying that makes no sense. I know you know that. But it's like they're not counting your fiancé as a participant in his own wedding. Because incorporating pieces of ones own culture isn't appropriation...

[Daisy0322]

On 7/22/2017 at 1:05 PM, MotherOfDragons said:

Okay, please don't attack me for asking this. I genuinely don't know.

What exactly is the difference between appreciating/admiring a culture and appropriating it? 

I could totally be wrong but I always thought appropriating is when you use something from another culture to be trendy and you don't have any understanding and/or respect for what it means to said culture. Where as appreciation is more like oh X comes from Y culture, I like it for this reason/ I think it's interesting, cool, enjoyable, etc. 

for example... my husband and I are not Hispanic but we plan on teaching our son to be bilingual English/Spanish because my husband grew up in an inner city Hispanic neighborhood and he is fluent and enjoys the culture and he'd like to pass that along. But we don't consider this appropriation because we regcognize that we are not Hispanic and we think that on top of a good life skill teaching him Spanish will teach him to be culturally open minded.

[cascarones]

10 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Your friend saying that makes no sense. I know you know that. But it's like they're not counting your fiancé as a participant in his own wedding. Because incorporating pieces of ones own culture isn't appropriation...

That's probably exactly what it is, she's a bit of kind of girl where the groom is a prop in his own wedding. Why would a man have or want any say in what's a big day for him too? *sarcasm*

It's also touchy for her, she got disowned at 17 for being in an interracial relationship and thank gosh she had a good support network outside of her family, because it was a threatening mess there for awhile.  She also tends to date guys that are controlling narcissists with big ideas of headship, even though she's an incredibly strong woman. That's probably more for a different thread as I haven't seen enough about Austin to know what sort of Head he'll be. He seems uncomfortable on camera, but does seem to genuinely adore Joy and the rest takes time.

[Henk12]

I would love to see Joy and Austin do like a Fixer Upper kind of thing but include Jana. I think Joy and Jana would be good at it and enjoy it. Plus it would give them something besides having babies all the time. I'm a sahm and I've had three kids in just over four years so I'm not saying having a large family is bad or that sahms don't work. They absolutely do. But most of us have more options than the Duggar women. My husband would happily be a sahd while I focused on my career and I can go to school for whatever I want. Joy and Jana can't do that and it's so sad that they don't have any choices. But if they were business owners together they could have a more normal life. 

 

[Smoochie]

Article/short video in People online about Joy and Austin breaking their courtship rules ... are you ready ... they front hugged when they got engaged.     Ummm did you see Ben and Jessa's proposal, THAT was a front hug,  yours was a kinda awkward side kinda front hug!  (Jessa and Ben just kept looking down when Daphne brought it up, made me chuckle)

Kind of a sad aside, the cameramen were hiding in the trees when she arrived, so she thought that it wasn't her proposal because the cameras weren't there. Joy thought it was just them when she got engaged, thought it was special.  

What a way to live your life, playing & planning for the cameras.

[Buzzard]

19 minutes ago, Smoochie said:

Kind of a sad aside, the cameramen were hiding in the trees when she arrived, so she thought that it wasn't her proposal because the cameras weren't there. Joy thought it was just them when she got engaged, thought it was special.  

Thats really sad.  She was denied a real parental relationship and even the special moments of her life arent "special" because they're so staged and public.  Austin couldnt even plan an engagement without consulting almighty TLC for scheduling details.

[Jinder Roles]

Did someone say cultural appropriation? My favourite topic.

But in all seriousness, it's a real thing. One thing to remember is its not simply about disrespect or even knowledge of cultures. Cultural appropriation is mainly about power relations. Colonialism, imperialism and the historical subjugation/violence/discrimination against minorities is key to understanding appropriation. A white person wearing an African garb for fashion purposes is appropriation. A black person wearing plaid is assimilation because of pressure to adapt to the dominant culture.

Participating in ceremonies of other cultures and wearing the appropriate clothing isn' t apprpriation. Because you've been invited and guided by members of said culture. 

And it's not just clothes. Appropriation can be hairstyles, manner of speaking, dances etc. 

Thanks to @Bethella, @SweetFellowshipper and @Lurky for the informative explanations. And yeah, Miley Cyrus is the worst. Iggy Azealea and Kylie Jenner too.

 

[Four is Enough]

48 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

. A white person wearing an African garb for fashion purposes is appropriation. A black person wearing plaid is assimilation because of pressure to adapt to the dominant culture.

And it's not just clothes. Appropriation can be hairstyles, manner of speaking, dances etc. 

 

So it can't ever just be showing appreciation for African garb? Or Plaid? It is always something sinister or bad

When does a hairstyle evolve into something everyone can wear? As I've said before, fashion is fluid. 

While I wouldn't wear a geile, I would love to get my hands on some lovely african fabrics.. because I love the colors and patterns!

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

Didn't pretty much all the Duggar couples accidentally front hug at some point during courtship? I don't remember with J&A, but I think Jill front hugged Derelicte at the airport, Jessa from hugged Bin when they got engaged, and JinJer were very touchy.

Re: cultural appropriation. A friend of mine was commenting on how good my hair would look cornrowed the other day. I've always loved the look of African braided hairstyles, but don't feel right about appropriating them. That being said, if I were travelling in a tropical country, I could see wanting to get my hair braided so that I don't have to deal with a sweaty frizzy nightmare on my head.

[Jinder Roles]

25 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

So it can't ever just be showing appreciation for African garb? Or Plaid? It is always something sinister or bad

When does a hairstyle evolve into something everyone can wear? 

I guess you really didn't absorb the point I was making about power relations. We don't operate independently of society and it's structures. You can't separate violent colonial history from African culture. African people and their culture have been shamed, discriminated against and viewed as ugly/uncivilized because of their appearance and pratices. It's been incredibly hurtful. 

You can technically wear anything you want, just know when you appropriate you are perpetuating a real social issue. That's the hard truth.

A hairstyle will become acceptable when it's no longer ghetto/unprofessional on me and cool on you. (AKA unacceptable on the orginating minority culture and acceptable on dominant culture)

[VelociRapture]

@LurkySelena Gomez wearing a bindi during her concerts several years back is an excellent example of your first point. She's not Hindu, so she really had no reason to be wearing the bindi. And what was her response when she was called out for it? This:

If someone calls you out for appropriation, the correct response is to apologize and ask for clarification on what went wrong if you need it. That way you learn and grow as a person. You don't double down on your actions and use a bad pun to basically say fuck you.

[bananabread]

I'm a millennial, but I've never really understood the cultural appropriation thing. Isn't everything cultural appropriation...? I mean here in America, everything is an amalgamation of cultures. We study languages from all over the world. We listen to British bands, drink Italian wine, adopt East Asian religions and philosophies, buy Swedish furniture, and play Japanese video games. Our law is largely English. Our doctors perform surgeries invented in other counties. We eat every kind of food imaginable. Is my yearly corned beef and cabbage on St. Patrick's Day cultural appropriation? That just seems ridiculous.

Celebrities routinely wear American flag apparel, cowboy outfits, crucifixes, etc as part of their getup; that might be distasteful to some (including me), but I recognize that it's completely their choice, and that it doesn't diminish my own culture or values unless I choose to believe it does. Lots of tourists try out local apparel/food/jewelry/customs when they travel; if that's how they choose to spend their time and money, that's fine with me. I don't intend to go through life letting strangers tell me what I can think, say, and wear.

[Mela99]

that whole front hug deal -- didn't Boob and Mullet constantly insist that each couple set their own rules? So whose rules did they break if Joy and Austin chose to hug?