Joy and Austin: Back in Arkansas?

[Georgiana]

3 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

The point remains.  

I have always wondered why my family cooking different cultures food seems okay to everyone but my wearing a sari causes people to be upset.  I bought it from an Indian shop, I wear it (or used to) to formal occasions because I love it and its a beautiful formal outfit.  

The question is: WHO gets upset?

Most Indians (in India) are DELIGHTED when other people wear saris.  My Indian friends are ALWAYS encouraging me to buy them along with other Indian accessories.  When I was in China, I was CONSTANTLY encouraged to buy and wear traditional Chinese clothing by friends.  If you were to go outside wearing it, EVERYONE wants to take your picture and talk to you in a very positive way.  For many cultures, your choice to wear something that is traditionally theirs is a sign of respect and a compliment.  I had so many conversations in China about how delighted the Chinese were about other people coming there to learn about China and take that knowledge home with them.  It means that China has something VALUABLE.  This is something that even only a generation ago, people never DREAMED they would see because China was so far behind the world.  

When people copy you, it means you are doing something RIGHT.  And cultures like China and India, who have a history of being the dominant culture in their area, understand that.  They WANT the trade and the copying.  It means they MATTER.  It means people look at them and say "That's how I want to be too".

The people who get upset are often not from those countries.  They often don't even share the race or the culture.  And WHY should their opinion matter in that case?  China actually has an incredibly contentious relationship with ABCs (American Born Chinese) because they feel ABCs try to control the China discourse with their own experiences...which are COMPLETELY different than the experiences of native born Chinese.  ABCs don't own Chinese culture, and if the people in China feel that it is fine for Westerners to wear traditional Chinese wear, then the matter is settled.  The ABCs and other Westerners don't get to override that just because they are Western.  

THAT is a hand me down of imperialism and Western bias.

So to answer: go to the source.  Most cultures wont sell you something that would be disrespectful for you to buy or use.  So as long as you are buying direct, you can trust their judgement with sharing their culture.  If you are curious, just ask!

And avoid buying "ethnic" items from large chains because THAT is where the stealing occurs.  

And, because I always put this PSA in there when talking about this: As a Native American, I IMPLORE you to purchase traditionally made Native goods.  Cultural erosion is a MAJOR, MAJOR problem on the Rez, and purchasing traditional items sponsors traditional craftsmen and allows them to pass the skills on to the next generation.  The Native community does NOT have the resources to support the artistic community on its own.  

Beyond Buckskin is a good collective that features Native artists that create both traditional and modern goods.  Some friends of mine are actually listed there.  If you like an artist, you can also go to their personal site to see all their wares.  You can also use google to find people who have compiled lists of other resources and links to traditional artists.  

[candygirl200413]

Okay so for the hair thing just imagine being a black girl for example and having people saying things about your hair because its in cornrows. Not imagine a white girl who was saying all of that deciding to wear cornrows and how people applaud and love how they look on her but never to that black girl. Also imagine having a job that thinks your hair looks unprofessional/unkept because of those cornrows. It has personally never happened to me but I know so many people who have.  Until it's guaranteed that I won't be treated a certain way for how I style my head, I don't agree with those that don't have my skin tone but still rocks my hair style.

 

[speller24]

3 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

That always bothered me so much. And she has no respect for Jewish traditions or culture, or anything different than her own. I was so glad when dirty Jesus gave her a necklace because she finally took it off. It's like she wanted people to think she was Jewish while thinking we're going to hell.

Yes! That necklace always made me want to gag and slap her at the same time. Girl, you don't know what you ate talking about, and if her beliefs align with Jessa about the Holocaust (aka the theory of evolution caused the Holocaust guys), then it's even more disgusting. The worst part is, she has no clue why that would be offensive. Sigh. This family. 

[Buzzard]

8 minutes ago, speller24 said:

Yes! That necklace always made me want to gag and slap her at the same time. Girl, you don't know what you ate talking about, and if her beliefs align with Jessa about the Holocaust (aka the theory of evolution caused the Holocaust guys), then it's even more disgusting. The worst part is, she has no clue why that would be offensive. Sigh. This family. 

Wait, WHAT?

[VelociRapture]

2 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Wait, WHAT?

You mean my all time favorite Blessa Instagram post, which I pull out every time someone thinks she's an ok person?

 

[speller24]

4 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Wait, WHAT?

Here it is. The theory of evolution caused racism, and that caused the Holocaust. Oh also let's make a statement about abortion, because why not? This made my blood boil. You can thank that good ole homeschooling education for this gem. Well that mixed with years of brainwashing.

[Georgiana]

2 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Wait, WHAT?

Some people believe that the Theory of Evolution is the root of genocide or brought genocide into the world.  They latch onto this because the Nazis especially and other genocidal groups in general do tend to spout evolutionary buzz words or reference the Theory with varying degrees of accurateness when defending their actions.  Eugenics usually comes up as well, which is in fact a bastard scion of Evolutionary Theory.  It's just a way for Creationists to avoid actually having to confront the Theory of Evolution.  Label it evil and shove it in a box, never to be thought of again.  

IN FACT the first recorded historical incident of genocide is found in (drumroll please).....

THE BIBLE!  

And the perpetrators? 

THE ISRAELITES! 

And WHY did they do it?

Because GOD told them to!

[Buzzard]

Thats truly amazing, even for a Duggar.

[VelociRapture]

33 minutes ago, candygirl200413 said:

Okay so for the hair thing just imagine being a black girl for example and having people saying things about your hair because its in cornrows. Not imagine a white girl who was saying all of that deciding to wear cornrows and how people applaud and love how they look on her but never to that black girl. Also imagine having a job that thinks your hair looks unprofessional/unkept because of those cornrows. It has personally never happened to me but I know so many people who have.  Until it's guaranteed that I won't be treated a certain way for how I style my head, I don't agree with those that don't have my skin tone but still rocks my hair style.

 

I agree for the most part. I'm white and I don't wear hairstyles that black women do for the reasons you mentioned - plus, they just wouldn't look good on me because I have baby hair (ridiculously straight and fine.) I'm seriously in awe of how amazing some hairstyles black women wear are. They're just so freaking cool looking and I'd love to see those styles more accepted by society in general and schools and professional environments specifically.

I do think white women can wear more than one braid in certain circumstances. Like French braids on either side of the head. Or the two tiny braids I had in my half-up wedding day hairdo. Or braided hairstyles found throughout history in some European cultures (like the Vikings and Celts.) I think it just needs to be really clear that it's not a braided hairstyle that originated or is mostly seen in black cultures - because, like you said, it's disrespectful and unfair to applaud a white person for wearing a style that could get someone with darker skin in trouble.

@speller24Post twins! 

[speller24]

17 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

 

@speller24Post twins! 

Nothing makes me happier! 

[HarryPotterFan]

5 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

It's just so fucked up! Sorry there's no other way to phrase that. I don't care if someone wears a garment made in Africa or Leiderhosen. Wear whatever you want. But that's like me wearing a rosary around my neck and then saying burn all Catholics. It's highly offensive and inappropriate. Every time I saw that Star of David it pissed me off to no end. They have no respect for the Jewish religion.

 

2 hours ago, speller24 said:

Yes! That necklace always made me want to gag and slap her at the same time. Girl, you don't know what you ate talking about, and if her beliefs align with Jessa about the Holocaust (aka the theory of evolution caused the Holocaust guys), then it's even more disgusting. The worst part is, she has no clue why that would be offensive. Sigh. This family. 

I always wanted to slap her for it too. And Jessa for that garbage she says about the Holocaust (don't all of them believe that? And that abortion is a baby holocaust? Can I slap all of them?)

Then there is someone like a patient my mom encountered, who wasn't Jewish but wore a Star of David necklace because it was "pretty."

Another poster commented on Urban Outfitters appropriating Native culture (I tried to quote but it disappeared), but UO has a huge history of being super problematic:  http://theweek.com/articles/480961/15-urban-outfitters-controversies

Notably selling a Kent State sweatshirt with a pattern that looked like blood stains and a blanket that looked like the prison uniform gay people had to wear in Nazi concentration camps.

[speller24]

17 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Another poster commented on Urban Outfitters appropriating Native culture (I tried to quote but it disappeared), but UO has a huge history of being super problematic:  http://theweek.com/articles/480961/15-urban-outfitters-controversies

Urban Decay is the worst! I used to be sad that I wasn't skinny (I'm really curvy) enough to wear most of UO and now I thank my lucky stars that I didn't! 

[candygirl200413]

I also agree @VelociRapture not all braids are obviously for one single race but yes it should be distinguish! One thing I was always jealous of was the amazing french braids my mainly white friends were able to do (back in middle school for fun they would "french braid" my cornrows) which looking back I think was an adorable time

Also I got to visit the headquarters of Urban outfitters, and it is just as problematic in person!

[MamaJunebug]

24 minutes ago, candygirl200413 said:

I also agree @VelociRapture not all braids are obviously for one single race but yes it should be distinguish! One thing I was always jealous of was the amazing french braids my mainly white friends were able to do (back in middle school for fun they would "french braid" my cornrows) which looking back I think was an adorable time

Also I got to visit the headquarters of Urban outfitters, and it is just as problematic in person!

I'm an insect of very small brain tonight & I must ask: How does one French-braid cornrows, which as I understand the term mean hair braided right on top of the scalp? BTW as much as I enjoyed the movie "10" I never did think cornrows on Bo Derek did right by each other!!!!! 

[FeministFunPolice]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

I'm an insect of very small brain tonight & I must ask: How does one French-braid cornrows, which as I understand the term mean hair braided right on top of the scalp? BTW as much as I enjoyed the movie "10" I never did think cornrows on Bo Derek did right by each other!!!!! 

Agreed. Issues of cultural appropriation aside I just think corn rows look bloody awful on white people. Especially when accompanied by the requisite "I got so burnt you can see me in the dark" sunburn. 

[VelociRapture]

7 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

I also agree @VelociRapture not all braids are obviously for one single race but yes it should be distinguish! One thing I was always jealous of was the amazing french braids my mainly white friends were able to do (back in middle school for fun they would "french braid" my cornrows) which looking back I think was an adorable time

Also I got to visit the headquarters of Urban outfitters, and it is just as problematic in person!

I'm just glad I worded that post correctly and clearly. I'm always slightly worried I'm going to screw up when these topics pop up. 

4 hours ago, FeministFunPolice said:

Agreed. Issues of cultural appropriation aside I just think corn rows look bloody awful on white people. Especially when accompanied by the requisite "I got so burnt you can see me in the dark" sunburn. 

And this is why I slathered myself with tons of sunblock on our Honeymoon. I was good about reapplying and still came back more tan than I've ever been as an adult (thankfully no burns though.) 

[HarleyQuinn]

Someone gif'd all their PDA. I think her sister mom gave her stage 5 clinger tips.

 

http://keepingupwithfundies.tumblr.com/post/163430150171/joy-and-austin-forsyth-pda-ing-all-over-the-place

[bananabread]

12 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Someone gif'd all their PDA. I think her sister mom gave her stage 5 clinger tips.

 

http://keepingupwithfundies.tumblr.com/post/163430150171/joy-and-austin-forsyth-pda-ing-all-over-the-place

I think it's adorable and awesome that they're so in-love and have natural chemistry. That's not the case with every marriage.

Also future-Mr. Bananabread and I looked like this for the first year of our relationship so you will see absolutely zero judgment from me!

[kachuu]

12 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Someone gif'd all their PDA. I think her sister mom gave her stage 5 clinger tips.

 

http://keepingupwithfundies.tumblr.com/post/163430150171/joy-and-austin-forsyth-pda-ing-all-over-the-place

I'm not going to lie, i was super uncomfortable with ALL their PDA. Especially when she sat on him. You are ON camera. And in front of FAMILY. 

 

Like, I get it, but holy guacamole batman

[candygirl200413]

I was thinking the same thing but I felt for her at the same time because imagine having this pentup energy for years and now that you're married you can do what you want! But I remember someone posting on the Bates fourm how another obvious downside of the courtship model is that instead of getting off the honeymoon period while you're dating, it's when your married and then you're just like eh I'm stuck with this for life now.

 

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

The first two gifs seem sweet. They're just kissing in those, but that gif of her sitting on Austin's lap, OTOH, made me super uncomfortable. I felt like I was seeing something I shouldn't have been privvy to seeing , but I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree where that's concerned 

[Daisy0322]

Okay I'm starting to worry I'm guilty of too much PDA because I didn't think twice about her sitting on his lap haha. I think maybe we just think of her as "little joy" because the way they do things they go from being a 12 year old sister mom to a 15 year old (in maturity) courting to a married woman. They skip a lot of steps.

[CorruptionInc.]

2 hours ago, kachuu said:

I'm not going to lie, i was super uncomfortable with ALL their PDA. Especially when she sat on him. You are ON camera. And in front of FAMILY. 

 

Like, I get it, but holy guacamole batman

I've never seen a couple do that before. Like people sit on others, but not like that.

"This is mine haha" comes to mind?

[SapphireSlytherin]

The whole Joy-sitting-on-Austin thing. Was that photo taken at the interview? WHO lies down on a sofa in a TV/production studio in front of people (while we're at it)???

[ThunderRolls]

I'll give Joy and Austin a pass (for now) on the whole PDA thing - they're both pretty young and still in the beginning of their relationship. The peak of sexual excitement for most couples. Truthfully, if they weren't fundies, I don't know if I'd think twice about it - "modesty" has always been a Duggar buzzword so it's interesting to see (or not!) Joy getting jiggy with it so freely in front of others. It doesn't make me want to sew my eyeballs shut - yet.