Joy and Austin: Back in Arkansas?

[mausi]

2 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

 A white person wearing an African garb for fashion purposes is appropriation. 

 

There are white Africans, it's a large and diverse continent.

[melon]

Remember when JIll ran to hug Derick when he came back from Nepal.She was so excited,and front hugged him?I did not see what the big deal was.

 

 

[December]

44 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

She's not Hindu, so she really had no reason to be wearing the bindi. And what was her response when she was called out for it? This:

Whoa, there are so many tactful ways that someone could respond to that criticism, and she goes with that?

11 minutes ago, bananabread said:

Isn't everything cultural appropriation...? I mean here in America, everything is an amalgamation of cultures.

I think a lot of your examples fall under what many would term cultural diffusion, which is just the spread of ideas, foods, music, etc. that happens naturally. Cultural appropriation has more to do with the context in which someone's borrowing/stealing from another culture. But there'll always be multiple opinions on what constitutes appropriation.

In my experience at least, most people try to be reasonable and respectful when discussing these topics because they don't mean to offend someone / don't assume the other person is trying to be offensive. 

[Fun Undies]

Maybe I can ask y'all for your opinion on this then, while we're discussing the whole cultural appropriation thing . . . Though maybe this I going more into religious?

So one my brothers PCA's is Muslim, and he'll be getting married at the end of the year.  We've had wonderful talks about the religious and cultural differences between our countries  (he's from Somalia), as well as being an immigrant (he came here fairly young), and of course religion.  We even invited his family last year for thanksgiving, but they count make it :S

My mother and I doubt we'd be invited but IF we were, we'd be separated into the woman's room and we wondered if we'd be expected to wear a hijab?  I mean it wouldn't bother either of us, because it's a religious ceremony and we want to be respectful of that.  OR since we aren't Muslim, would that be cultural/religious appropriation?  

Sidenote: Both my mom and I really love the formal Indian dresses, we find them so beautiful!  But neither of us would wear it, unless we were invited to an Indian ceremony and given expressed permission to wear one, because we understand we're neither Indian, nor Hindu sooooo yeah.

Being half german, I will say I can rock a dirndl just fine, and my boobs looks awesome in them lol.  I wouldn't be offended if my husband wore a pair of lederhosen, though he's got some sexy legs, so that helps

[Carm_88]

33 minutes ago, December said:

In my experience at least, most people try to be reasonable and respectful when discussing these topics because they don't mean to offend someone / don't assume the other person is trying to be offensive. 

I think too part of it is being educated and knowing that you may be questioned about it. If you are, don't pull a Selena Gomez! 

For example: Where I'm from, we have a tourist ceremony called a screech in, which makes you an honoury Newfoundlander. It's fun and most people really enjoy it. It all is a part of our culture and though exaggerated for effect, still quite funny. Now if that person who is screeched in goes around talking in an exaggerated accent and pretending like they know what all local slang is. 1) It's a piss off, don't do it. 2) It's disrespectful. So you can appreciate other cultures without being dumb about it. You just have to be willing to do so.

[Bethella]

32 minutes ago, Fun Undies said:

My mother and I doubt we'd be invited but IF we were, we'd be separated into the woman's room and we wondered if we'd be expected to wear a hijab?  I mean it wouldn't bother either of us, because it's a religious ceremony and we want to be respectful of that.  OR since we aren't Muslim, would that be cultural/religious appropriation?  

It would probably depend on the mosque/community but in general I suspect you would be asked to dress modestly, remove your shoes and cover your hair although not necessarily with a hijab.

[candygirl200413]

Agree with @Bethella to let the community/family decide. In my culture we have formal clothing that we really don't allow people to wear unless it's approved by the family in charge of the event (like my cousins wife's family who is African American got their traditional clothing from my Aunt and Uncle when it came to the various wedding events).

 

[Rachel333]

Cultural appropriation is a complicated topic. Personally, I think it's best to listen to people actually affected by it rather than the  white people who like to lecture others on it without really knowing what they're talking about. There was an interesting debate a few years ago with kimonos where Americans (including some young Asian-Americans) protested a museum for having a display where you could try on a kimono, while actual Japanese women held a counter protest saying that they liked the display. The thing about kimonos is that kimono making is an art that people spend their lives perfecting but it's a dying industry and kimono makers actively want Westerners to buy their kimonos, so people saying that buying a kimono is cultural appropriation is actually hurting kimono makers.

There's a difference between wearing something like a kimono or a sari, if you bought them from Japanese or Indian retailers, and doing something like wearing a Native American bonnet as a fashion statement when it would be a completely inappropriate usage for it in Native American culture, actual Native American people are against it, and Native American people have been discouraged from participating in their own culture.

[Smoochie]

44 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I think too part of it is being educated and knowing that you may be questioned about it. If you are, don't pull a Selena Gomez! 

For example: Where I'm from, we have a tourist ceremony called a screech in, which makes you an honoury Newfoundlander. It's fun and most people really enjoy it. It all is a part of our culture and though exaggerated for effect, still quite funny. Now if that person who is screeched in goes around talking in an exaggerated accent and pretending like they know what all local slang is. 1) It's a piss off, don't do it. 2) It's disrespectful. So you can appreciate other cultures without being dumb about it. You just have to be willing to do so.

LOL Carm, I was born in Stephenville on the USAFB, back in the day.  My mom is from NL and my dad from the US, so I am an official Newfie.  Seen many a screech in!

Many a person takes the 'Newfieisms' a bit to far sometimes.

[Jinder Roles]

1 hour ago, mausi said:

There are white Africans, it's a large and diverse continent.

I'm well aware. Do you know how they got there? Colonialism.

Do you know who orginated those colourful African patterns? The black people they were subjugating.

[Thorns]

Comments disabled on the People article. Disappointed. 

[Carm_88]

47 minutes ago, Smoochie said:

LOL Carm, I was born in Stephenville on the USAFB, back in the day.  My mom is from NL and my dad from the US, so I am an official Newfie.  Seen many a screech in!

Many a person takes the 'Newfieisms' a bit to far sometimes.

Do they ever! A screech in is always a good giggle though!  

[SweetFellowshipper]

1 hour ago, Rachel333 said:

Cultural appropriation is a complicated topic. Personally, I think it's best to listen to people actually affected by it rather than the  white people who like to lecture others on it without really knowing what they're talking about. There was an interesting debate a few years ago with kimonos where Americans (including some young Asian-Americans) protested a museum for having a display where you could try on a kimono, while actual Japanese women held a counter protest saying that they liked the display. The thing about kimonos is that kimono making is an art that people spend their lives perfecting but it's a dying industry and kimono makers actively want Westerners to buy their kimonos, so people saying that buying a kimono is cultural appropriation is actually hurting kimono makers.

There's a difference between wearing something like a kimono or a sari, if you bought them from Japanese or Indian retailers, and doing something like wearing a Native American bonnet as a fashion statement when it would be a completely inappropriate usage for it in Native American culture, actual Native American people are against it, and Native American people have been discouraged from participating in their own culture.

I think part of the issue is that the most common way for cultural appropriation to come up is through an artist's performance, and somehow pop culture clouds the issue and it quickly gets oversimplified to "can white people ever wear kimonos or bindis" (with some people getting weirdly preachy and some people getting weirdly defensive) or something when really that's not usually what people are objecting to and it's a case by case basis. Agreed that wearing a kimono as part of an educational display or buying something FROM a minority group as an everyday person is totally different from cultural appropriation. I think that's weirdly become conflated with the way that, for example, Native American headdresses have been used in hypersexual performances by white artists that make a lot of money. Certainly part of it is that they're not even trying to understand what it actually means and perpetuating stereotypes about aggressive or sexualized/objectified Native American women, but the more important thing IMO is what you point out, which is that the exchange of funds (i.e., who is benefiting from this exchange? is this really just a dominant group selling an idea of a cultural practice/object?) really matters. This happens with multiple marginalized groups, like queer and disabled people, too, not just a racial thing.

[Henk12]

I'm almost positive every couple has done an accidental front hug at some point. How sad that grown adults can't express their love with an innocent hug. It wouldn't be so sad if they really had chosen that but we all know that they don't actually make the rules for themselves, besides maybe Jinger and Jeremy to an extent. Because if that was true Michelle and Jim Boob wouldn't have reacted that way when Jill accidentally hugged Derdick. Just like when they say that all of the girls choose to wear skirts and dresses. If that was true Jinger wouldn't have put pants the second she was completely moved out to TX. She would have worn them before and been loud and proud about it. They make being a Christian more about rules than God. 

I often wonder how strict the Duggars truly are about certain things when the cameras aren't around. I have a fantasy that when the cameras leave, Jana drives to her apartment with her secret husband and wakes up the next day to go to her real job. 

[viii]

I was impressed they just hugged when Austin proposed... I thought for sure they were going to kiss. 

[onekidanddone]

3 hours ago, melon said:

Remember when JIll ran to hug Derick when he came back from Nepal.She was so excited,and front hugged him?I did not see what the big deal was.

Oh yea I remember that.  I also remember MeMeMechelle did a talking head and was quite upset.  You would have thought Jill and Derdork rolled on the floor and did the nasty right there in the airport Michelle was that shocked.

[OyToTheVey]

I was in Japan 2 years ago. They have a service where you can rent or buy a yukata( not a kimono, there's a difference*) and they do your hair and you can walk around Gion in it and the locals love when gijin do it. They took so many of our pictures. Mostly cuz it was a large group of non Japanese walking around in yukatas enjoying themselves. I still have it. It's beautiful! It's white/grey with a purple butterfly floral design. I've been trying to figure out a way to frame it and put it up on my wall. I'm not even sure if it would be considered appropriation or appreciation. We LOVED it. The Japanese didn't mind at all. They stopped us to take photos.  

 

*A yukata is for relaxation. They're usually light and single layered. You can wear them for dinner because it's relaxation mode. We wore yukatas to the onsen (Japanese bath house).  

A kimono is much more complicated. They're 2-4 layers with those elaborate belts. They're usually worn for work or entertainment. Maikos you see wear kimonos. Kimonos are also worn by the host during tea ceremonies. However, the guests would usually wear a yukata because they're there to relax and enjoy themselves.

[PainfullyAware]

Former anthropoligist here. The important part about cultural appropriation is that it creates a fetish out of an exotic Other. Traditional garments or styles have a specific meaning or significance in their original context. But when we take them out of that context, abstracted from the original significance, without permission, and wear them as exotic, cool, or fashionable styles, we symbolically recreate colonial power relationships. (Someone from the West uses their wealth or power and rips off something from indigenous, minority or oppressed people without their permission). That's cultural appropriation in a nutshell.

[Four is Enough]

Front hugging, or HUGGING, as I call it... is NORMAL. This Side Hug thing.... NOT.

[cptbailey]

46 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

I was in Japan 2 years ago. They have a service where you can rent or buy a yukata( not a kimono, there's a difference*) and they do your hair and you can walk around Gion in it and the locals love when gijin do it.

That sounds amazing! Where in Japan was this? Something I'd love to do if I ever get the chance to travel to Japan again. What an amazing country.

[Lurky]

@PainfullyAware Thank you, that's perfect, I'm totally going to borrow that wording!

And learning another language isn't cultural appropriation, to whoever was worried about it - that's directly wanting to be able to communicate with people in other cultures, which is awesome. 

[nvmbr02]

22 minutes ago, cptbailey said:

That sounds amazing! Where in Japan was this? Something I'd love to do if I ever get the chance to travel to Japan again. What an amazing country.

I know there are places in Kyoto where you can rent or dress up in a Kimono. I am sure there are other places in Japan you can as well, I just came across the Kyoto ones recently when making a rough trip plan for our trip there next year.

In Bangkok there are places you can try on a Chut Thai. Our trip in the fall will be fairly short but I am hoping to run across one for my youngest to see/try. She loves learning about traditional clothing.

[OyToTheVey]

35 minutes ago, cptbailey said:

That sounds amazing! Where in Japan was this? Something I'd love to do if I ever get the chance to travel to Japan again. What an amazing country.

Japan is one of the countries I recommend everyone visit in their life. It's pretty amazing. It was in Kyoto, the Gion section. It's the district you typically see on tv where all the maikos and geishas live. The old province buildings and tiny alleys. It's one of the most stunning places I've ever seen. 

[MadeItOut]

4 hours ago, Fun Undies said:

Maybe I can ask y'all for your opinion on this then, while we're discussing the whole cultural appropriation thing . . . Though maybe this I going more into religious?

So one my brothers PCA's is Muslim, and he'll be getting married at the end of the year.  We've had wonderful talks about the religious and cultural differences between our countries  (he's from Somalia), as well as being an immigrant (he came here fairly young), and of course religion.  We even invited his family last year for thanksgiving, but they count make it :S

My mother and I doubt we'd be invited but IF we were, we'd be separated into the woman's room and we wondered if we'd be expected to wear a hijab?  I mean it wouldn't bother either of us, because it's a religious ceremony and we want to be respectful of that.  OR since we aren't Muslim, would that be cultural/religious appropriation?  

Sidenote: Both my mom and I really love the formal Indian dresses, we find them so beautiful!  But neither of us would wear it, unless we were invited to an Indian ceremony and given expressed permission to wear one, because we understand we're neither Indian, nor Hindu sooooo yeah.

Being half german, I will say I can rock a dirndl just fine, and my boobs looks awesome in them lol.  I wouldn't be offended if my husband wore a pair of lederhosen, though he's got some sexy legs, so that helps

IIRC in such a situation it's expected to cover your head, but you have options.

On the occasions I've been anywhere formal with Islamic friends, I've tried to wear a hijab, mainly because I'm one who subconsciously touches hair and face for reassurance, so it seems the 'safest'. On occasion I've also worn khimar (funny one in terms of how it changed my movements. With that one I'd recommend some practice at home before your big event) and shayla is a good option - like Kate Cambridge wore on tour:

Hope I did this right - it's my first try!

[Daisy0322]

34 minutes ago, Lurky said:

And learning another language isn't cultural appropriation, to whoever was worried about it - that's directly wanting to be able to communicate with people in other cultures, which is awesome. 

Teaching our son Spanish wasn't the concern it's more that my husband grew up in a Hispanic neighborhood and adopted some of the culture and even though he isn't Mexican (it was a primarily Mexican neighborhood) he always felt rather connected to the culture. It can just some off oddly now because now we live in the suburbs/country.