Lourdes is Divorcing Nolan

[Palimpsest]

I REALLY don't think that asking for even the slightest bit of background - even just a last name or a screen shot of the post in question or some reason that this should interest me - warrants a RUDE link to a mod post. YES I can search, but there is more than one person named Lourdes in the world and I don't know why we can't put even a tiny bit of information. This thread - which has now picked up and I figured out who we are talking about and have already been informed - was confusing to anyone who is new or hasn't read every thread.

RUDE. On another thread someone was just talking about how nice people here are about thread drift and how it's okay to ask questions.

That thread asked people to read before posting. This may be a more helpful link on the background if you have not already found it: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21996

It is perfectly OK to ask questions. Some of us are more eager to guide newbies than others on the background.

However, this is a rather tense thread. Having a shit-fit about perceived rudeness to newer posters in the middle of a discussion about possible suicidal ideation might not win you many fans. Use good judgment when asking questions. And even better judgment before throwing shit-fits.

ETA clarification

[formergothardite]

So do I. Most of the last two months' worth of FB posts look like attempts to get Lourdes's attention. Nolan, make your FB private, and stop sharing Lourdes's pictures. You're lucky she hasn't blocked you and you're extremely lucky she's not responding to you on her own page. We already have a facebook soap opera playing out in the pages of Free Jinger, go read the Sarah Jane threads. You can protect Lourdes from public drama right now by making your fb private.

Oh god I just went through his FB page. Somebody needs to knock some sense into him. It is like he read a handbook on how to ruin a relationship with an ex and is following it step by step. Is there no one in his life who he will listen to?

[chaotic life]

Ok, I only watched half of the first video and it was too painful to finish watching.

Nolan, I know you've come here before, and I know you sometimes read here. WTF??? That is some manipulative shit you have posted publically for the whole fucking world to see!!!

Take it down! If you want her to trust you, to accept you as a safe FRIEND and not lose her in your life entirely, take it DOWN!

You cannot do that to an abuse victim like that! I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are a hurting, reeling young man who is watching your marriage evaporate against your wishes and don't know how to respond.

Get to a trained and licensed therapist. Here's a hint, they need to have a couple of letters after their name, and if they don't you need to RUN. They can have LCSW, LPC, PsyD, DO or MD after their name and NOTHING else will even remotely imply actual training. You need to find an accountability partner who you can pour out all that pain you feel IN PRIVATE. And you need. To journal and keep it to either just yourself or share with therapist and/or accountability partner only.

But, you do NOT bleed out that pain on the public internet. It doesn't matter how many times you admit you screwed up and failed her, that you are saying anything at all re-enforces that she is going to feel like you are trying to manipulate her. Your pain is not her problem. It's yours. Get therapy and go on actual meds and not just herbals. You shouldn't be on St John'sWart without the supervision of a provider, plain and simple. Few people take re dosing that has been found to do anything and SJW has tons of interactions with other meds, even over the counters. Plus, a provider is responsible for screening you for suicide risks, yet another burden that is not hers to carry now.

No matter what your motives are and what you think you are doing, I am telling you as an abuse survivor that I would run away from what you are doing so fast your head would spin. It's not healthy not safe and even if your intent is to show love, regret, remorse, you are showing the exact opposite. Cut it out. You want to be safe to have any role in her life, then you start acting safe! And that's not it!

[DomWackTroll]

I REALLY don't think that asking for even the slightest bit of background - even just a last name or a screen shot of the post in question or some reason that this should interest me - warrants a RUDE link to a mod post. YES I can search, but there is more than one person named Lourdes in the world and I don't know why we can't put even a tiny bit of information. This thread - which has now picked up and I figured out who we are talking about and have already been informed - was confusing to anyone who is new or hasn't read every thread.

RUDE. On another thread someone was just talking about how nice people here are about thread drift and how it's okay to ask questions.

I was certainly not trying to confuse any new posters and it never occurred to me that not posting last names would be rude for the simple reason that there is only one couple we have ever discussed here whose names are Lourdes and Nolan.

[Maggie Mae]

I was certainly not trying to confuse any new posters and it never occurred to me that not posting last names would be rude for the simple reason that there is only one couple we have ever discussed here whose names are Lourdes and Nolan.

Well, for me, I can't watch videos (work, and I don't have the patience for them). I know there is at least one poster who is deaf as well. I'm not trying to start anything (although I am a little grumpy and I'm sorry for that.) I just get a little frustrated at posts with a link and no context. I had only heard of Lourdes being the person suing Doug the Tool, and was unaware she was married as I didn't keep up with that news once it turned into a mega thread. I don't even know what I"m going on about now.

[DomWackTroll]

Getting that sick feeling again, like when i read through all the posts about BCA drama on her site, that Jen is :stir-pot:

But Jen is a "certified health counselor"! :roll:

facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10206659745479484?pnref=story

ETA: Oh, excuse me: certified health COACH. Whatever the hell that is.

EATA: Did anyone see Nolan's comment under the suicide essay, when someone asked if he was okay? "I'm doing good. Trying to not let my mind be bound by Jewish inventions (i.e. commandments attributed to God)."

Yep, Dr. KinJen has been hard at work.

[Palimpsest]

There are red flags for grossly manipulative behavior all over Nolan's Facebook. It is ugly and I hope Lourdes has good support to help her withstand it. She needs to take care of herself and realize that she cannot control the behavior of others and is not responsible for their actions.

Nolan should quit the manipulative tactics. They will not win Lourdes back. It is the worst thing he can do in this situation, There are also (IMO) some red flags for suicidal ideation in Nolan. Manipulators don't always just threaten suicide. Some of them do follow through.

Nolan is a victim of Phillips and BCA also. He probably has few coping skills and, last time I looked, he is estranged from his family. He is a vulnerable psychological mess. In my opinion. Nolan should not be vilified for this. He is an individual and we should try not to project personal experiences with manipulative partners onto his specific situation. We do not know exactly what brought him to this state.

I hope Lourdes and Nolan both come through all of this safely - and hopefully with the help of good professional counselors.

It is a tragic situation any way you look at it.

[halcionne]

But Jen is a "certified health counselor"! :roll:

facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10206659745479484?pnref=story

ETA: Oh, excuse me: certified health COACH. Whatever the hell that is.

EATA: Did anyone see Nolan's comment under the suicide essay, when someone asked if he was okay? "I'm doing good. Trying to not let my mind be bound by Jewish inventions (i.e. commandments attributed to God)."

Yep, Dr. KinJen has been hard at work.

Thank you for interpreting that; I didn't know what to make of it. :?

[Cleopatra7]

Wow, I leave FJ for a week or so and this happens. :pink-shock: :? Not much else to add, but I do worry about whether Nolan or Lourdes have the coping skills to deal with this, especially since VF took a hardline stance on divorce. To me, this illustrates what the fruits of "emotional purity" are (e.g., hasty marriages, unable to process hurt and disappointment, emotional immaturity), and why this concept needs to go to the dustbin of bad ideas. Like others, I think someone needs to have some kind of intervention for Nolan, because he seems to be on the verge of suicide/a nervous breakdown. I hope both of them can stay safe during this difficult time. :(

[nelliebelle1197]

I've had a brief Facebook correspondence with Nolan; I thought he was adorable. This breaks my heart for them.

[Coco]

Is anyone responding to him on FB offering him links or phone numbers to hotlines? I don't even know where they are. Florida? Can someone comment on his FB or send him a private message with that sort of information? I know we're all recommending counseling but where can he go?

[MamaJunebug]

Unless they moved, I'm pretty sure they're in the general San Antonio area. Not far from Boerne, etc. oh yes I hope someone will send info, I have none and am not a FB friend of either. Prayers going up for him.

[MajorMajor]

He posted some questionable things on his Facebook about Lourdes when they first got married IIRC. He seems like a perfect example of how fundies churn out manchildren, and even though he's left the ideology he hasn't been able to leave behind the effects. It's very hard to be married to an immature person under the best of circumstances. This is sad but not at all surprising to me. I wonder how many other young couples raised as fundies would divorce within a year if it weren't for a fear of hell if they did.

[Marian the Librarian]

There are red flags for grossly manipulative behavior all over Nolan's Facebook. It is ugly and I hope Lourdes has good support to help her withstand it. She needs to take care of herself and realize that she cannot control the behavior of others and is not responsible for their actions.

Nolan should quit the manipulative tactics. They will not win Lourdes back. It is the worst thing he can do in this situation, There are also (IMO) some red flags for suicidal ideation in Nolan. Manipulators don't always just threaten suicide. Some of them do follow through.

Nolan is a victim of Phillips and BCA also. He probably has few coping skills and, last time I looked, he is estranged from his family. He is a vulnerable psychological mess. In my opinion. Nolan should not be vilified for this. He is an individual and we should try not to project personal experiences with manipulative partners onto his specific situation. We do not know exactly what brought him to this state.

I hope Lourdes and Nolan both come through all of this safely - and hopefully with the help of good professional counselors.

It is a tragic situation any way you look at it.

Thank you Palimpsest, this is very well-said.

[socalrules]

I am not sure why anyone is shocked by this. The marriage was a bad idea from the start. Lourdes went from being raised to believe she is a man’s servant, i.e. to Dougie and Family, to finding the strength to get away from the tool. She then falls right back into the idea that a woman needs a man to survive by getting married before she had a chance to think things through. The time between when she got away from Dougie and married isn’t really that long. I also agree with another poster who said that the marriage may have been to make Lourdes a respectable woman in the eyes of the public. Nolan posting a lot while they were married was a bad idea as well, especially in light of the lawsuit. If you, or in this case wife, are in the middle of a lawsuit, you need to keep your internet presence to the minimum. Lawyers do look up opposing parties on social media.

[Jasmar]

My disclaimer: I haven't looked at the FB videos or posts. Too possibly triggering for me.

That said, I do feel heartbroken for these two. I recently signed divorce papers myself, after believing divorce wasn't an option for the last seventeen-plus years. I get how excruciating this is even within the non-fundy, evangelical community.

I also have a very little bit of experience poking around the edges of VF. I've been at least a partial homeschooler since 2004, was on the VF mailing list, heard Voddie Baucham in person (and, embarrassingly, thought he made a lot of sense :?), swung from radical feminism as a young person to a devoted conservative fundie-lite and back towards the center,..

So I was ecstatic for these two last year. I sort of identified with some of what they'd been through, and felt such joy knowing they weren't just breaking free from patriarch but triumphing over it together.

So I'm sad. I hope and pray both will face their demons, find good support and counsel, and emerge strong and healthy. But yes, very sad.

[nausicaa]

I am not sure why anyone is shocked by this. The marriage was a bad idea from the start. Lourdes went from being raised to believe she is a man’s servant, i.e. to Dougie and Family, to finding the strength to get away from the tool. She then falls right back into the idea that a woman needs a man to survive by getting married before she had a chance to think things through. The time between when she got away from Dougie and married isn’t really that long. I also agree with another poster who said that the marriage may have been to make Lourdes a respectable woman in the eyes of the public. Nolan posting a lot while they were married was a bad idea as well, especially in light of the lawsuit. If you, or in this case wife, are in the middle of a lawsuit, you need to keep your internet presence to the minimum. Lawyers do look up opposing parties on social media.

Yeah, I never understood the excitement here about the marriage when it first happened. It seemed fairly rushed, neither had really lived as independent adults, and both were going through a huge transition in their lives. It seemed to have disaster written all over it.

This isn't meant as a character critique of either Lourdes or Nolan. Both have plenty of valid reasons to have issues and still need to work through things. I just don't think a lifelong commitment to someone else needs to be thrown in while still figuring all of these things out. I really do wish the best for both of them though (and big props to them for being responsible with birth control. Sarah Jane-- take note.)

[apandaaries]

He posted some questionable things on his Facebook about Lourdes when they first got married IIRC. He seems like a perfect example of how fundies churn out manchildren, and even though he's left the ideology he hasn't been able to leave behind the effects. It's very hard to be married to an immature person under the best of circumstances. This is sad but not at all surprising to me. I wonder how many other young couples raised as fundies would divorce within a year if it weren't for a fear of hell if they did.

Agree with a heavy heart about the manchildren. Leaving at all was such a big shift, and all those horrifically complicating factors...he doesn't appear to be stable, but he keeps lashing out with manipulative tactics because that's probably all he knows.

Divorce is SO HARD that I wouldn't wish it on anyone (on second thought, maybe Zsu...), but I'm also really happy that Lourdes knows divorce IS an option. As a divorcee, I think the only thing worse than divorce is feeling trapped in problematic marriage.

[Arete]

Nolan needs to get away from Jen immediately. She is a viper. He may not have realized that Jen outed Lourdes on her blog long before Lourdes had decided to go public. In fact, Jen took particular glee in dropping the hints that it was the Phillips's former nanny because she had an axe to grind with Lourdes. Jen had accused a teenaged Lourdes of shunning her daughter after Jen and her husband were disfellowshipped or whatever the term was at BCA. She was more than happy to try and humiliate Lourdes.

And no matter how much humiliation Jen suffered at Doug and Beall's hands, she would go back to them in a New York minute if they whistled at her. Jen cannot be trusted not to funnel info about Lourdes she gets from Nolan right into Doug's hands. She would use a middleman, but she would offer up info to try and get back in Doug's good graces. She has harbored a grudge against a teenager for years, she is a closet Kinist, and deep down a closet admirer of Doug. Nolan should break all professional ties with her, and fast.

[hoipolloi]

Nolan needs to get away from Jen immediately. She is a viper. He may not have realized that Jen outed Lourdes on her blog long before Lourdes had decided to go public. In fact, Jen took particular glee in dropping the hints that it was the Phillips's former nanny because she had an axe to grind with Lourdes. Jen had accused a teenaged Lourdes of shunning her daughter after Jen and her husband were disfellowshipped or whatever the term was at BCA. She was more than happy to try and humiliate Lourdes.

And no matter how much humiliation Jen suffered at Doug and Beall's hands, she would go back to them in a New York minute if they whistled at her. Jen cannot be trusted not to funnel info about Lourdes she gets from Nolan right into Doug's hands. She would use a middleman, but she would offer up info to try and get back in Doug's good graces. She has harbored a grudge against a teenager for years, she is a closet Kinist, and deep down a closet admirer of Doug. Nolan should break all professional ties with her, and fast.

:clap:

[Palimpsest]

:clap:

Yes. I'd forgotten Jen's sidewinding against Lourdes. She does bear a big grudge there and would go definitely go running back to Doug the moment he whistled.

Not good at all. Mind you, anything Nolan tells Jen would be hearsay and non admissible in court, I think. Wouldn't it? Disclaimer: Not a lawyer or even a Degreed Legal Professional.

[DomWackTroll]

Jen recently attended Joel Osteen's church (much to the dismay of her Facebook friends). She's all about peace and love and tolerance now.

facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206636222931435&set=a.2703795121270.2153001.1448511048&type=1&theater

This woman has no deeply held belief system. She will go wherever she has to go to get the most attention she can at any given time. She will insert herself into whatever subculture will allow her to make the most drama for herself and others. One year that might be Kinism, the next year some health fad, the next year the Prosperity Gospel. But the one thing that never changes is that Jen is the brave, strong "survivor" desperately trying to bring truth to the masses.

It is easy to see how a lonely, depressed young man could fall for her baloney. I just hope she doesn't try to marry him, because she's running out of men her own age.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Agreed. Nolan, stay far away from Jen. She is untrustworthy and is using you for information on Lourdes. Or just because she is pretending to be concerned, but actually gets satisfaction from hearing you complain about her because she doesn't like her. I know people like that. She does not care about you or your feelings, not one bit. The only reason she isn't on Doug's side is because he dumped her from his church, and yeah, she would take him back if he decided he wanted her around. In fact, she probably is hoping that you will say something personal, feed it back to Doug and then he will see her as worthy of being around him because he can get something from her. Its sort of a confusing relationship to have with someone, but it happens, and manipulative people like Doug are good at having people beg to be used by them, even if they knew they could throw them away at the slightest thing.

Jen is evil. She hates Lourdes, therefore she cannot be trusted to have an honest opinion on your relationship and the two of you breaking up. She likely does not and can not feel sorry for you, but is happy that your relationship is over. Anything you say will probably be fed back to Doug, You cant let that happen, because even though you and Lourdes broke up, you still love her, and he raped her. Doug ruined your life too, with all of the creepy cult stuff you were sucked into. Don't give him the satisfaction of knowing all the intimate details. Get a real therapist, not a bitch in sheep's clothing.

[fundiefan]

I am not the least bit surprised. And, I don't mean that in a snarky way. They were in a very horrible position at the time of their marriage. Raised in cult like environment, dealing with the trauma of all that went on, leaning on each other - in that instant, no doubt it made perfect sense. As time passes though, and life moves on, and healing begins, they both changed as people and their needs changed. It was, sadly, doomed from the start. And again, I don't mean that snarky. It's incredibly sad. But they had each other to help through some of the roughest, hardest times of their lives and for that, they got exactly what they needed.

As for Nolan's involvement with Jen - he's just drifting towards the next person who backs him up. More typical behavior when your world is flipped upside down. I hope he sees clearly sooner rather than later. But ultimately, both of them still have a shit load of growing pains to go through and the best anyone can hope for is for no lasting, further damage to themselves.

I'm still rooting for both of them.

[fundiefan]

The more I think about this the more angry it makes me. Not at Nolan or Lourdes, but at the whole fucking homeschooling/umbrella of protection/daughters belonging to daddy bullshit that fundies embrace. They fail their kids in so many ways. They can't use deductive reasoning, they can't separate or even identify their feelings because they're not supposed to have them; they repress everything for the sake of being godly. Men are raised to be 'galant knights' with one way to do everything. There is no individuality, no personal relationship, no feelings, no emotions, no thought. It's all robotic, following the rules, removing your brain and heart bullshit. When you are not allowed to even trust your own feelings and are made to feel shameful for so much and bury everything, how can you possibly trust someone else? How can you possibly get outside yourself enough to even learn? When you bury all emotion, you bury yourself. It would take an act of their god directly to get outside that and be able to function within a healthy relationship. Neither one of them knows a damn thing about themselves, how could they possibly have made a marriage work?

Of course people not raised in that world make short marriages and make mistakes. That's because life is full of mistakes and making choices and dealing with consequences. It's so much bigger for those coming out of that world though. They don't know how to cope at all and everything is a jumble of...well, probably some sort of crazy within their minds since their realities are upended and twisted and turned.

I'm incredibly sad for Nolan and Lourdes and incredibly angry and pissed at the patriarchy bullshit that fundies embrace and saddle their kids with for life. It's disgusting.