Maxwell engagement

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Elizabeth Munck

muncksquiver.blogspot.com

Been reading them for a while.

Thank you!

Gotta love the power of FJ - even if there's not a direct way to search from A to B, someone is happening to read B, and sees the reference back to A... it is an awesome thing :)

Steve is marrying off the sons younger because their offspring "count" toward his own personal army. Interesting comment on the blog that the proceeds from their scheduling software go towards the purchase of Joseph's house. This leads me to believe that while he may not have a mortgage, he may have borrowed from Steve. How is that debt free?

It's not. Well, I suppose it technically is if Steve-O isn't expecting the loan to be paid back, but it's hardly self-sufficient.

Certainly it's no more "debt-free" than any other kid whose parents pay for their house/schooling/whatever so that they're spared the evil, evil bank loans, and no more "sensible" than any normal young person without sugar-daddy parents taking out a reasonable nowhere-near-the-max-offered mortgage on a house.

This is just proof that fundies are more accepting for their sons to get married than daughters. Clearly, Steve is just not ready to give another guy the authority over one of his daughters . He's a selfish ass and I hope one day Sarah will find true love who will take her away from Steve's controlling ways.

Yeah. Steve-O can accept a daughter from this "freewheeling" (relatively) family because she will be molded to turn into a Maxwell, so she will be moving "up" (as per Steve-O values). But there's no way he'd accept a husband from a family like this for the girls, because they will go out and mold themselves to that "freer" lifestyle, thus moving "down" (again, as per Steve-O values).

Elizabeth turned 20 last month. Maybe there has been a quiet courtship and her father didn't want her to be engaged or married until she was 20? Fundies often seem to have arbitrary ages for this, Anna Duggar is an example which springs to mind.

None of the Maxwells commented on the blog post about her birthday. I find that odd, if she was close enough to Joseph and the family for him to propose a month later one would think that someone from the family would have posted happy birthday wishes. If it would be considered improper for Joseph to then surely his sisters could have.

I wonder if the Maxwells follow any other family blogs at all - if they don't read a blog, they can't comment on it. Have they commented on any other entries?

Part of the reason the Maxwell blog seems so stiff is that they don't relate to anyone else as humans IN the blog, they don't have a "blogs we read" blogroll, you don't see them (or at least I never seem to) posting on anyone else's blogs, etc. They just post their own little stiff pictures and barely manage to comment to their own readers (and in that weird "take over half the same post" format, they never post their OWN actual separate comments in response to anyone on their blog).

So I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't following the Munck blog.

I am actually quite concerned about my view of the world. I think too much fundie watching has made me cynical. At least as far as fundies go. In the real world, I choose to see the best and not take the 'all or nothing' approach. But, in fundie land, it's not possible.

I will read the fundie blogs and sort of get into their view for a moment, thinking wow this is great, etc. But then I come to my senses, and I have to say that every day I am eternally grateful to be a garden variety heathen.

[Boogalou]

From the birthday post:

:shock:

Butterflies are obviously in the protozoa kingdom, right? RIGHT?!?! Wtf do they think a butterfly is if not an animal? I hope Elizabeth realized how wrong her parents are and that's why she still insists butterflies are her favourite animal.

I'd say congratulations to the new couple but I think offering my condolences would be a more appropriate response in the face of a new Maxwell relationship.

[thoughtful]

I am actually quite concerned about my view of the world. I think too much fundie watching has made me cynical. At least as far as fundies go. In the real world, I choose to see the best and not take the 'all or nothing' approach. But, in fundie land, it's not possible.

I just think you have a realistic view of the fundies. That's what they're like.

I wonder if Elizabeth has thought, really thought, about death. Has she thought about it enough? Has she thought about it on holidays? Is she truly ready to live in a

[bananacat]

It's one thing for a person to mistakenly believe that a butterfly is not an animal. It's quite another thing for that person to be completely in charge of educating several children. Within a few generations the neo-fundie movement will implode because of this. Education is less valued for girls because they'll never need a paying job, but then they're the ones who are in charge of homeschooling their kids. Each generation the girls will get less and less until it gets so bad that they'll start to form private indoctrination mills but only for their sons.

[blatantlyeggplant]

It's one thing for a person to mistakenly believe that a butterfly is not an animal. It's quite another thing for that person to be completely in charge of educating several children. Within a few generations the neo-fundie movement will implode because of this. Education is less valued for girls because they'll never need a paying job, but then they're the ones who are in charge of homeschooling their kids. Each generation the girls will get less and less until it gets so bad that they'll start to form private indoctrination mills but only for their sons.

Exactly. This thought has been swimming around my head all morning. Here's hoping Elizabeth learned enough during her three years of school that she'll be able to do a little better for the future Maxwell spawn.

[Witsec7]

Exactly. This thought has been swimming around my head all morning. Here's hoping Elizabeth learned enough during her three years of school that she'll be able to do a little better for the future Maxwell spawn.

Can we all say

Lep`i`dop´te`ra?

[TMS]

I wonder if the Maxwells follow any other family blogs at all - if they don't read a blog, they can't comment on it. Have they commented on any other entries?

No, they don't. I wondered about this for a long time, and about a year ago I asked them specifically (paraphrased, as I don't remember my exact words): Do you enjoy reading other blogs? Can you recommend any other Christian, homeschooling blogs for your readers?

Steve answered that no, they do not read other blogs. A very short and curt response. No explanation.

I sort of knew it, but just needed confirmation.

The Maxwells are completely wrapped up in themselves.

[Vex]

I have no idea how Elizabeth got the Steve seal of approval. Even if her parents are in his good graces because they were 'convicted' by his blathering, that doesn't mean Elizabeth is herself convinced. I mean, convicted. Fundie speak makes my head hurt. She seems to come from a fundie lite background, considering the amount of freedom she has and the fact her parents actually celebrate holidays rather than ignoring them or spending them praying for the souls of the people celebrating them.

Even if they have recently had a Maxwell makeover at home, Elizabeth didn't grow up with it so I think that it won't take her long to backslide - Joseph will be too busy being scared and then delighted about living as an actual adult to enforce Maxwell rules, and he'll probably be so enamored with Elizabeth/sex/both that he'll let her get away with things his father would never allow to the point where anything objectionable in Steve's eyes just becomes the done thing and nobody gives it a second thought. I hope.

I predict they'll be married before the end of Summer and have a honeymoon baby.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I have no idea how Elizabeth got the Steve seal of approval. Even if her parents are in his good graces because they were 'convicted' by his blathering, that doesn't mean Elizabeth is herself convinced. I mean, convicted. Fundie speak makes my head hurt. She seems to come from a fundie lite background, considering the amount of freedom she has and the fact her parents actually celebrate holidays rather than ignoring them or spending them praying for the souls of the people celebrating them.

Even if they have recently had a Maxwell makeover at home, Elizabeth didn't grow up with it so I think that it won't take her long to backslide - Joseph will be too busy being scared and then delighted about living as an actual adult to enforce Maxwell rules, and he'll probably be so enamored with Elizabeth/sex/both that he'll let her get away with things his father would never allow to the point where anything objectionable in Steve's eyes just becomes the done thing and nobody gives it a second thought. I hope.

I predict they'll be married before the end of Summer and have a honeymoon baby.

Having read the Maxwells' book "Keeping Your Children's Hearts" (bought used and saved the difference), it does seem strange that Steve would even allow Joseph to become acquainted with a young lady of such a "liberal" background, much less plan to marry her. The book devotes much space to the concept of appetites and how parents should make sure their children never develop an appetite for anything that might draw their hearts away from their family or their religion. Sports is Steve's favorite example here-- a child with an appetite for sports will want to play ball and go to games instead of staying home, reading the Bible. All forms of entertainment are regarded in a similar fashion. On Elizabeth's family's blog, we see the parents allowing a lot of harmless fun kid stuff that Steve would lump into the "creating a wrong appetite" category. I can imagine him counseling Joseph that this young lady has an appetite for many things that are not consistent with the Maxwell family's goals (another pet phrase often used in the book) and how god (with a small g, meaning Steve) would not approve of this relationship. I can't imagine Steve being happy about this at all, unless his views have changed. He also doesn't seem like the kind of parent who would sit back, say nothing, and wait for his adult son to realize on his own that he has made a "mistake."

[Witsec7]

Having read the Maxwells' book "Keeping Your Children's Hearts" (bought used and saved the difference), it does seem strange that Steve would even allow Joseph to become acquainted with a young lady of such a "liberal" background, much less plan to marry her. The book devotes much space to the concept of appetites and how parents should make sure their children never develop an appetite for anything that might draw their hearts away from their family or their religion. Sports is Steve's favorite example here-- a child with an appetite for sports will want to play ball and go to games instead of staying home, reading the Bible. All forms of entertainment are regarded in a similar fashion. On Elizabeth's family's blog, we see the parents allowing a lot of harmless fun kid stuff that Steve would lump into the "creating a wrong appetite" category. I can imagine him counseling Joseph that this young lady has an appetite for many things that are not consistent with the Maxwell family's goals (another pet phrase often used in the book) and how god (with a small g, meaning Steve) would not approve of this relationship. I can't imagine Steve being happy about this at all, unless his views have changed. He also doesn't seem like the kind of parent who would sit back, say nothing, and wait for his adult son to realize on his own that he has made a "mistake."

Both of these posts make some sense. What we've seen documented (from past courtship stories) is the 'deal' taking place with great council from the fathers with no input from the kids, all the questions about goals, godly expectations. When both father's agree on the value of the courtship it takes place. (I know I'm simplifying the process.) But I can't imagine Steve not knowing his was a more liberal family and giving the go ahead. Unless... he knows Elizabeth's father is really gonna be drinking the Maxwelaide and support a more conservative life for his daughter.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

As another reader of "Keeping Your Children's Hearts" I gotta agree too - the ONLY way I can see Steve-O being okay with this is if he's assuming that Elizabeth, as the woman in the relationship, is going to have to obey Joseph 100% and not act on any of her "appetites" regardless of what she might actually want to do. Perhaps he thinks that her family has sipped enough of the Kool-Aid to support that one overriding rule (obey your husband always in everything as his helpmeet and strive for the goals HE tells you to go for, nothing of your own doing) being followed. Dunno.

Depressing though.

But I cannot imagine this pairing ever happening if we were talking about a boy being set up to marry a Maxwell girl.

[Vex]

As another reader of "Keeping Your Children's Hearts" I gotta agree too - the ONLY way I can see Steve-O being okay with this is if he's assuming that Elizabeth, as the woman in the relationship, is going to have to obey Joseph 100% and not act on any of her "appetites" regardless of what she might actually want to do. Perhaps he thinks that her family has sipped enough of the Kool-Aid to support that one overriding rule (obey your husband always in everything as his helpmeet and strive for the goals HE tells you to go for, nothing of your own doing) being followed. Dunno.

Depressing though.

But I cannot imagine this pairing ever happening if we were talking about a boy being set up to marry a Maxwell girl.

I assume exactly that - that between the parents' indoctrination and Joseph's, Steve feels confident that they're enough under his thrall that Elizabeth's liberal upbringing won't be an issue. Otherwise, I cannot think of a single reason why Steve would agree.

[TMS]

I keep hoping that Elizabeth will influence Joseph...and was kinda encouraged that Joseph bought a house *ONE WHOLE MILE AWAY* from the Maxwell compound...but unfortunately I think it is obvious that Elizabeth will be influenced by Joseph and co. I feel so sad for her. Looks like she actually had a fun life growing up. She has had a lot of experiences and adventure in her 20 years. I hope her memory serves her well, because this is the first year of the end of her life.

[CrazySister]

Wedding mid fall, baby before the end of 2013.

[Witsec7]

November wedding. Steve and Uriah have 3 dog and pony shows in Sept. and Oct.

[FloraDoraDolly]

As another reader of "Keeping Your Children's Hearts" I gotta agree too - the ONLY way I can see Steve-O being okay with this is if he's assuming that Elizabeth, as the woman in the relationship, is going to have to obey Joseph 100% and not act on any of her "appetites" regardless of what she might actually want to do. Perhaps he thinks that her family has sipped enough of the Kool-Aid to support that one overriding rule (obey your husband always in everything as his helpmeet and strive for the goals HE tells you to go for, nothing of your own doing) being followed. Dunno.

Depressing though.

But I cannot imagine this pairing ever happening if we were talking about a boy being set up to marry a Maxwell girl.

This sounds like Steve, but I still can't see him trusting that Joseph will be able to resist the kinds of appetites that Elizabeth will be bringing into the marriage. This is a common thread among fundie parents. They do not trust their adult offspring at all, which is why there's no dating, no college, and no working outside the home/family for either gender. They can't even go to Wal-Mart for a box of saltines without taking a sibling for accountability.

[Koala]

This sounds like Steve, but I still can't see him trusting that Joseph will be able to resist the kinds of appetites that Elizabeth will be bringing into the marriage. This is a common thread among fundie parents. They do not trust their adult offspring at all, which is why there's no dating, no college, and no working outside the home/family for either gender. They can't even go to Wal-Mart for a box of saltines without taking a sibling for accountability.

This "family" amounts to nothing more that a small scale cult. It literally makes my blood boil when I think of Steve and Terri Maxwell and what they have done to their children.

[ladidah]

About the "butterfly ≠ animal" incident: There's an old English-speaking tradition of using "animal" as roughly equivalent to "mammal." In nineteenth-century texts, you frequently see phrases about "animals, birds, and fish." So it's possible that Elizabeth's family, like many homeschooling families, has been reading a lot of old books—say, reprints from homeschooling catalogues—and is thinking along those lines.

Not that even that possibility gives me much hope that they're keeping up with modern-day science textbooks. :cry:

[nokidsmom]

This "family" amounts to nothing more that a small scale cult. It literally makes my blood boil when I think of Steve and Terri Maxwell and what they have done to their children.

This. Since joining FJ, I have learned a lot about the Maxwells, between posts here and going to their blog. Read up on when Steve descended into the crazy and took his whole family down the rabbit hole with him and I have found the whole saga just astounding. It''s unbelieveable that he welds so much control over adult children who have every right to go out and live their lives yet they still live at home like they are 10 years old.

[freejoytoo]

I don't think Sarah getting married would automatically make her life better. In fundie world she'd have to court and then marry some guy she barely knew, who would have to pass Steve's test and therefore would probably be just as much of an ass as he is.

[LucySnowe]

I wonder what Poor Sarah would do if someone sidled up to her at a conference and slipped her a small padded envelope which contained a Greyhound ticket, a hundred bucks, and a pre-loaded cell phone. :sad:

[mockingbird]

I wonder what Poor Sarah would do if someone sidled up to her at a conference and slipped her a small padded envelope which contained a Greyhound ticket, a hundred bucks, and a pre-loaded cell phone. :sad:

Probably turn it over to Steve :cry:

[WonderingInWA]

Probably turn it over to Steve :cry:

She would. How sad is that?

[Triplet3]

I wonder what Poor Sarah would do if someone sidled up to her at a conference and slipped her a small padded envelope which contained a Greyhound ticket, a hundred bucks, and a pre-loaded cell phone. :sad:

Laugh, probably. I think she is so completely brainwashed that she would be incredulous to discover that some people think she needs 'saving'.

[Burris]

Wow! That's some serious Maxwell asskissing going on from Elizabeth's family.

On another note, how can one be "in His word"? That doesn't even make sense. I hate fundiese!

I was thinking the same thing. Fundie jargon is damned annoying. It's as if they have so little of substance to say that they must make up for their lack with an endless stream of 'Christianese.'