Lori Alexander: "Big Gov't, Boo! Big Business, Yay!"

[ems]

This is one thing I've never gotten about fundies. They seem to absolutely worship big business, or capitalism if you prefer, and hence money.

This. Certainly it's quite contrary to Jesus in the Bible. And what I don't get is the attitude that government is "of the devil," pretty much, but the private sector can do no wrong. Yes, the stereotype about red tape in the government comes from somewhere. But your teachers, firefighters...that's all government too. And certainly people in the private sector can and are motivated by those sins/human fallibilties of greed, love of power, etc. But when they are, somehow it's ok, because it's the private sector, and they can do what they want, and that's godly. Or something. Even when it messes up our whole economy.

*Scratches head*

[alba]

It happened a lot, usually under the guise of anti-union measures, but most of those were pretty clear moves by big business to keep a hold over the workers and try to stop them from pushing for fair pay or safer working conditions.

In the late 1800s and on through at least the 1940s, there were several times big business hired the Pinkertons and similar "private detective" agencies as armed guards to intimidate striking workers, and several times this ended up with workers and sometimes random civilians being shot and killed. Sometimes militias and even police departments were used, but even then there were times when they shot unarmed strikers under the guise of putting down a riot (The 1937 Memorial Day massacre of unarmed Republic Steel strikers by Chicago police is one example).

This happened mostly with miners and steel mill workers - the "Harlan County War", Battle of Blair Mountain, & Ludlow Massacre. With the mines, since most of the housing and stores were owned by the companies and workers were often paid in scrip that could only be used at company stores, there were long strikes where people's families died from starvation and exposure because they were stuck living outside in tents and without food, like during the Paint Creek Cabin strike in West Virginia.

Wow.

IOW, Lori's full of shit. What else is new?

Another example of indirectly killing people might be recklessly promoting unsafe products regardless of facts. For example, until the big scary government intervened, cigarette companies were all about marketing to children, who generally lack the ability to think about advertising critically. This was happening well after the link between cigarettes and cancer had been established. I mean, I can't think of a clearer demonstration that big business prioritizes profits over people!

I don't understand people who trust businesses over government *at all*. I may not much like the government, but at least if they do a terrible job we can vote them out come election time. (which can't come soon enough as far as this Canadian is concerned).

Good point.

Of course, with the current Canadian government voting them out is a bit more difficult than it should be, given the whole election fraud thing :roll:

[Conuly]

Does it occur to her that perhaps the reason the school looks so run-down is *because* it's not getting enough money from the government to take care of the property? Because all the money that should go to schools instead goes, in many cases, to the big BUSINESS of testing?

[Lunatic]

There are plenty of examples where companies killed people. In WVA they do the mountain top removal for coal mining and everything below them is polluted by the mining debris. There was an incident a few years ago where a large boulder was loosened by the mining, rolled down the mountain, crashed into a house and killed a child. How about the Bhopal disaster in India? How about Love Canal in the US? I'm old enough to remember the Androscoggin River up in Maine being one of the most polluted rivers in the US from all the paper mills dumping crap in it. The list goes on and on!!! Does she really want to live in a world where there is no government regulation?

My husband when to a Catholic school and I went to public school. Guess who had the better education? Me. He wishes now that he'd gone to a public school since there are so many gaps in his education. We're sending our kids to evil public school but they're great here in Maryland. We pay high taxes, true, but we also get a lot for our money.

[Conuly]

There are plenty of examples where companies killed people. In WVA they do the mountain top removal for coal mining and everything below them is polluted by the mining debris. There was an incident a few years ago where a large boulder was loosened by the mining, rolled down the mountain, crashed into a house and killed a child. How about the Bhopal disaster in India? How about Love Canal in the US? I'm old enough to remember the Androscoggin River up in Maine being one of the most polluted rivers in the US from all the paper mills dumping crap in it. The list goes on and on!!! Does she really want to live in a world where there is no government regulation?

There was a whole town in Wales, wasn't there, where the mine put up a completely unstable slag heap and one day it fell on the school and killed every child who was in attendance that day? The few who remained found that they couldn't go out to play after because other kids' parents, whose children were all dead, would burst into tears or start yelling.

[lilwriter85]

There are plenty of examples where companies killed people. In WVA they do the mountain top removal for coal mining and everything below them is polluted by the mining debris. There was an incident a few years ago where a large boulder was loosened by the mining, rolled down the mountain, crashed into a house and killed a child. How about the Bhopal disaster in India? How about Love Canal in the US? I'm old enough to remember the Androscoggin River up in Maine being one of the most polluted rivers in the US from all the paper mills dumping crap in it. The list goes on and on!!! Does she really want to live in a world where there is no government regulation?

My husband when to a Catholic school and I went to public school. Guess who had the better education? Me. He wishes now that he'd gone to a public school since there are so many gaps in his education. We're sending our kids to evil public school but they're great here in Maryland. We pay high taxes, true, but we also get a lot for our money.

Lori probably doesn't think deeply about how a world without government regulation would be. I have gotten the vibe from her blog that she has always been very sheltered. I don't think she has ever heard about of some of these examples that people in this thread have given about big business harming people. If she did hear about them, she probably never thought deeply about those incident.s Lori's blog title "Always Learning" doesn't match up to her attitude. She has refused to learn more about some of the things she discusses. She tried to rewrite history in one of her recent posts and she refused to learn or understand why some men stay at home with their kids.

[fakepigtails73]

She's so stupid...

Hasn't she heard of lobbying by big businesses? In 2012 it's not big govt. that makes the rules, it's big business, on a global scale. Big business has no qualms to move their operations out of North America when they get less profits and install itself in Central America or Asia.

I have no probs with capitalism, but her worship of big corporations is dumb and bizarre. Big business would roll all over her were she to have something they want...

Dumb and dumber part 3, starring Lori A.

[Kaylee]

Does it occur to her that perhaps the reason the school looks so run-down is *because* it's not getting enough money from the government to take care of the property? Because all the money that should go to schools instead goes, in many cases, to the big BUSINESS of testing?

I thought of that, too.

Also, when she talks about healthcare, many of the problems in some areas are from businesses having too much influence, both the pharmaceutical companies and some of the large healthcare corporations that own multiple hospitals.

[lilwriter85]

Jennifer K · 1 day ago

So is it safe to say you'll never collect Social Security, Lori?

Lori Alexander · 1 day ago

I certainly don't think you should be counting on getting it. It is going bankrupt like all the government programs are. We need to be saving if we can for our future. However, if everything crashes, God is our provider and we can depend upon Him.

I wonder how God plans to support millions of people.

[delilahdog11]

Monsanto has the potential cause wide spread damage and food storages. Their seeds seem to be at the root of bee colony collapse and without bees well best of luck to the earth. Media outlets are controlled by at most 10 major corporations who all have an interest in greed, deregulation, loosening of environmental regulation, etc. A politician who doesn't fall in line with corporate interest isn't going to be elected because their campaign won't be covered by the media and they won't get funding from various pack sources. Also the media is interested in only highlight certain social issues while ignoring the rest such as poverty. Big government is not the problem. Big business is. Even if big business doesn't directly kill people. They are directly responsible for the current economic and environmental crisis our country and the world at large is facing. The Koch Brothers are entirely more dangerous than big government.

[Conuly]

Lori Alexander · 1 day ago

I certainly don't think you should be counting on getting it. It is going bankrupt like all the government programs are. We need to be saving if we can for our future. However, if everything crashes, God is our provider and we can depend upon Him.

*frowns*

Isn't this something that Jesus specifically exhorts us NOT to do? Lilies of the field, birds of the air, don't store up riches on earth, don't worry about what you'll eat tomorrow? It's all in Matthew. (Is Matthew the least-read book of the Bible? Because Jesus says a lot of great things in there that some parties seem to ignore completely!)

Monsanto has the potential cause wide spread damage and food storages. Their seeds seem to be at the root of bee colony collapse and without bees well best of luck to the earth.

Oh, I'm not worried about the earth. In another 10 million years I'm sure the earth will still be here, solid and steady.

And when it comes to that, I'm not too concerned about life itself. This old planet's gone through a number of extinction events already. If just one or two organisms survive, they'll evolve, I'm sure of it.

Heck, I don't even worry about humanity in general. As far as I'm concerned, people are like backwards cockroaches. They're uniquely adapted to a wide variety of environments, we're uniquely adapted to virtually NO environment, and yet we're both of us ubiquitous. Deserted islands? Don't exist. If people can live there, we DO live there. Humans already live in some of the most marginal places on the planet, and I have no doubt we can, as a species, keep on trucking in very tight situations.

Society might not last, though, and lots of individual people are sure to be doomed. That kinda sucks.

[jaynie]

Another example of indirectly killing people might be recklessly promoting unsafe products regardless of facts. For example, until the big scary government intervened, cigarette companies were all about marketing to children, who generally lack the ability to think about advertising critically. This was happening well after the link between cigarettes and cancer had been established. I mean, I can't think of a clearer demonstration that big business prioritizes profits over people!

I don't understand people who trust businesses over government *at all*. I may not much like the government, but at least if they do a terrible job we can vote them out come election time. (which can't come soon enough as far as this Canadian is concerned).

Good point.

Of course, with the current Canadian government voting them out is a bit more difficult than it should be, given the whole election fraud thing :roll:

[alba]

I wonder how God plans to support millions of people.

Huh. I'll let her know when I get a cheque in the mail signed by God.

Good point.

Of course, with the current Canadian government voting them out is a bit more difficult than it should be, given the whole election fraud thing :roll:

Don't remind me! I don't really understand why we aren't rioting in the streets over that, let alone why most people I meet don't seem to care.

[Talitha Cumi]

I can't think of any examples where big business has directly killed people, but it has certainly indirectly done so. They cut corners on safety. They're the reason so many people are unemployed and can't feed their children. Big insurance businesses are the reason people can't afford healthcare. Just because they haven't lined people up and put bullets in their brains doesn't mean they don't kill people.

Blackwater/Xe. Private soldiers, paid by the US government. Not under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, so they are not courtmartialed when they commit military crimes.

Also, I'd like the fundies to tell me where the money for vouchers comes from. Isn't it the eebil government? Why should you be able to take my tax dollars to send your kid to whatever school you want? SOCIALISM!

[jaynie]

Good point.

Of course, with the current Canadian government voting them out is a bit more difficult than it should be, given the whole election fraud thing :roll:

Don't remind me! I don't really understand why we aren't rioting in the streets over that, let alone why most people I meet don't seem to care.

[lilah]

Quote:

Big business doesn't take away your money unless you want to give it to them like big government does through taxation

I'd love to see how long she'd last in some tax-free paradise like somalia. I'd give her a week or two.

[Talitha Cumi]

Does it occur to her that perhaps the reason the school looks so run-down is *because* it's not getting enough money from the government to take care of the property? Because all the money that should go to schools instead goes, in many cases, to the big BUSINESS of testing?

[GolightlyGrrl]

I wonder how God plans to support millions of people.

I'm Jennifer K, and I'm not surprised Lori mentioned God providing for her. Whatevs. I think Lori and the rest of the fundies see God as a giant ATM.

[dairyfreelife]

There are plenty of examples where companies killed people. In WVA they do the mountain top removal for coal mining and everything below them is polluted by the mining debris. There was an incident a few years ago where a large boulder was loosened by the mining, rolled down the mountain, crashed into a house and killed a child. How about the Bhopal disaster in India? How about Love Canal in the US? I'm old enough to remember the Androscoggin River up in Maine being one of the most polluted rivers in the US from all the paper mills dumping crap in it. The list goes on and on!!! Does she really want to live in a world where there is no government regulation?

My husband when to a Catholic school and I went to public school. Guess who had the better education? Me. He wishes now that he'd gone to a public school since there are so many gaps in his education. We're sending our kids to evil public school but they're great here in Maryland. We pay high taxes, true, but we also get a lot for our money.

Mining disasters from lack of safety? Massey anyone? Upper Big Branch Mine Disaster with lack of safety for methane taken created this disaster? Chernobyl? And on and on. Plenty of times that while it was not the intention to kill, big business killed and it was their fault entirely for caring more about money than people. Before all the plants were shut down/out of business, where my parents grew up some towns smelled horrible because of the chemicals. It wasn't the gov't that made these, it was big business. Big gov't and big business hurt when they get too big. Balance of business and gov't is necessary.

[Bloo]

One thing that I've always seen as problematic about the idea of vouchers and charter schools is transportation. Last year I worked at a fairly rural elementary school in a pretty poor area. The vast majority of the students were bus riders, either because both parents worked long hours or they could not afford a car. I seriously doubt that the districts would be busing children from that far-reaching side of the county to the multitudes of other spots that the vouchers might let them attend, so they'd be stuck at the local school anyway because that's the only place they'd be able to go. Only now, the school would have even less money and support, and brainless outsiders like this Lori moron would say, "Well, you had your chance to send your kids to a better school, and you didn't care enough! Sucks to be your kid!"

[B5SnowDog]

Mining disasters from lack of safety? Massey anyone? Upper Big Branch Mine Disaster with lack of safety for methane taken created this disaster? Chernobyl? And on and on. Plenty of times that while it was not the intention to kill, big business killed and it was their fault entirely for caring more about money than people. Before all the plants were shut down/out of business, where my parents grew up some towns smelled horrible because of the chemicals. It wasn't the gov't that made these, it was big business. Big gov't and big business hurt when they get too big. Balance of business and gov't is necessary.

The New London School Explosion was another tragedy caused by trying to cut costs.

[alba]

One thing that I've always seen as problematic about the idea of vouchers and charter schools is transportation. Last year I worked at a fairly rural elementary school in a pretty poor area. The vast majority of the students were bus riders, either because both parents worked long hours or they could not afford a car. I seriously doubt that the districts would be busing children from that far-reaching side of the county to the multitudes of other spots that the vouchers might let them attend, so they'd be stuck at the local school anyway because that's the only place they'd be able to go. Only now, the school would have even less money and support, and brainless outsiders like this Lori moron would say, "Well, you had your chance to send your kids to a better school, and you didn't care enough! Sucks to be your kid!"

When I was in high school you had to attend the school you were in the catchment area for unless you were going to another one for French immersion/IB/other special programme. If you DID go to another school, you were responsible for your own transportation. Most students took the city bus, which cost around $50 a month. Rumour had it that the school board subsidised the cost of a bus pass for French immersion students, but they didn't for the rest of us (I was an IB kid).

I could see something like this working in terms of transportation (though I don't know about the rest of it) in an urban area if the school board subsidises the cost of public transportation, which is probably cheaper than sending school buses around. Most rural areas in North America don't have reliable public transport, though.

[debrand]

When my husband joined the military, the military was basically self sufficient. At some point, it was decided it was more cost efficient for private companies to take over some of the military's noncombat jobs. My husband had to cross train into meterology because the military was allowing civilian contractors to take over some supply jobs. When my husband was in Afghanistan, a civilian contractor provided food for his base. There are American civilians now working to support the military in Afghanistan.

A part of me wonders if the reason that we are fighting such a long war is because of the money that those contractors get from the government. If that is true-and not just my own personal conspiracy theory- then yes, big business is causing deaths at this moment.