The Organic Movement

[luv2laugh]

I really don't know what the whole deal is with "The Organic Movement" I call it, hah. A couple of my church friends have fallen into this ideal. I feel like Fundies are most of the people that are in "The Organic Movement" too. Why are many maaany fundies so obsessed with being Organic? I don't read anywhere in the Bible that says that by eating an Organic diet makes one with better morals? I'm not against this movement; I just don't understand it. It seems that some Fundies take "The Organic Movement" to almost the extremes of it being an idol in their lives.

[xDreamerx]

I can't say for certain as I'm neither fundie nor organic, but I can hazard to venture a guess. Some of their reasons might include:

-Getting back to the ideal of homesteading and all that goes with it such as living off the land, making ones own clothes, raising large broods and possibly animals. Think Little House on steriods. We all know how much these people love the idea of a pre-industrialized America.

-It's a kind of a self-denial. It takes a lot of effort to make these foods and it speaks to Puritan work ethic. It's presumably a lot of veggies and healthier foods, so it's also denial in the sense doing what is best for your body rather than what you enjoy (que self righteousness).

-Also I think some of them are into moderating food intake and things like that. When I took a look at the Joyful Helpmeets YouTube, a while ago whenever someone posted about it, there was one video where she talked about eating less and only eating what was required. She seemed to think people were glutons. And gluntony is of course a sin. It's almost montastic and strangely self-flagglating.

*Forgive any spelling errors. My browser isn't spell checking and I'll admit I'm rather useless without it.

[Michiru]

Well I am not a fundy in any way, but I live a very organic life. I do it because of four things. Unlike the fundies, I put myself, my health and everything first. :mrgreen: I want to be healthy, I don't want to have chemicals ans pesticides in me and antibiotics and other nasty stuff.

Second I put other people. I want the farmers to get proberly paid. I also don't want them to have do deal with chemicals and get sick from it.

Then come the animals- they depend on eath that is not harmed, from ground they can life from.

At last there is the nature itself- I beliefe that by living organic where I can, I do my part in helping to not destroy the nature we all depend on.

It often is frustrating for me, that so many don't seem to care. But I do have the feeling that this is changing slowly.

[Brainsample]

Don't forget that there are natural health nuts in QF/P circles. We used to get that awful McAlvany newsletter, and they advertised for a master herbalist program in there and would recommend learning natural health for survival, because the medical system was supposed to collapse.

Then there are people like Nancy Campbell with her glow-in-the-dark yellow teeth from guzzling carrot juice. I thought of that reading that ZhuZhu thread about the advanced meal planning. Nancy goes on and on about giving your kids breakfast cereals because the grains get rancid after they are ground, and I assume that she's concerned about gluten's neuroexcitotoxin effects and the inhibition of the thyroid. But there's ZhuZhu who I assume doesn't get that it's an issue with all grains, especially flour -- not just breakfast cereals.

And then there's "Dr. Loretta" on Stacy McDonald's Patriarch Wives Yahoo group who paid a pretty nominal fee to take Mercola's course which she claims is a doctorate, and she gives out health advice on that list. (Some of it is scary.)

So consider that some of this is preached to them as part of the overall Luddite mentality of those who think that we ought to go back to medieval lifestyles (though they're all permitted to use computers). Somehow using computers and the internet is not a conflict, but getting traditional medical care is a problem.

[fundiefan]

I don't know any fundies personally but I do know people who are into organic and natural and all that. It's not something I've been concerned with for several reasons all my own. I don't have the money, time or desire to search the stuff out, study natural...anything.

I have a couple of friends that could probably put Zuzu to shame on the all natural/organic/cancer fighting front. The conspiracy theories surrounding the mere idea of cancer are apparently tied to every single thing we say, do, touch, each and all can be cured with these natural, organic diets/ingredients/dietary choices. I get soooo tired of hearing it. It is such a 'cause' with these couple of friends that just like if a fundie preached to me, the message is lost because it is all they ever say/talk of. Anyway, I think that, for some people - not all, but some - it has become a cause and little more.

For me, I eat what I can afford. And I promise you, none of it is organic because I cannot afford that. I do go to the farmer's market and stop at local farm stands if I need something and come across one, but as a whole, I shop at the grocery store and buy what I can that fits into the budget for that shopping trip. It has yet to be enough of a budget to allow for the price of organic food.

[Michiru]

The more people will get into organic- it will become more affordable.

In Germany the price is quite ok. Of course, you have to be able to cook, as precooked stuff will always be a higher price.

We are only students, and don't have a lot of money, but we manage fine to buy about 80% organic. It helps to not buy meat. But I do know, that in the USA the situation must sometimes be a bit frustrating as meat an stuff is cheaper than vegetables.

[Jessica]

Well I am not a fundy in any way, but I live a very organic life. I do it because of four things. Unlike the fundies, I put myself, my health and everything first. :mrgreen: I want to be healthy, I don't want to have chemicals ans pesticides in me and antibiotics and other nasty stuff.

Second I put other people. I want the farmers to get proberly paid. I also don't want them to have do deal with chemicals and get sick from it.

Then come the animals- they depend on eath that is not harmed, from ground they can life from.

At last there is the nature itself- I beliefe that by living organic where I can, I do my part in helping to not destroy the nature we all depend on.

It often is frustrating for me, that so many don't seem to care. But I do have the feeling that this is changing slowly.

Ditto.

[Childless]

I believe that organic is best, but it's not always affordable. I don't really preach organic as much as I preach eating healthy. If you can't afford organic produce that's ok. But, at least buy and eat regular produce instead of pre-packaged crap that is salted to within an inch of its life.

I get a lot more upset seeing parents stuff fast food down their kids throats than I do seeing parents feeding their kids standard carrots instead of organic carrots.

[liveonradio]

I don't have a definitive answer as to why fundies are so into organic food, but I *can* tell you that the issue of organic vs. non-organic is a very recent one. Guess God didn't foresee the advent of industrial agriculture when he wrote the Bible, heh. :lol:

[ladypuglover]

Well I am not a fundy in any way, but I live a very organic life. I do it because of four things. Unlike the fundies, I put myself, my health and everything first. :mrgreen: I want to be healthy, I don't want to have chemicals ans pesticides in me and antibiotics and other nasty stuff.

Second I put other people. I want the farmers to get proberly paid. I also don't want them to have do deal with chemicals and get sick from it.

Then come the animals- they depend on eath that is not harmed, from ground they can life from.

At last there is the nature itself- I beliefe that by living organic where I can, I do my part in helping to not destroy the nature we all depend on.

It often is frustrating for me, that so many don't seem to care. But I do have the feeling that this is changing slowly.

This is the same for me and mine. We do eat non-organic but prefer to eat organic for health, religious and moral reasons.

[onlyorganic]

I agree that I think it stems from the whole idea of homeschooling, canning your own veggies, growing your own food, making your own clothing, and taking pride in the fruit of your labors that is the basis of the Proverbs 31, Titus 2 woman. The thing that really drives me (organically grown) bananas is that the whole idea of eating organically in our country has become a luxury and therefore set an unintended standard that if you eat like, the pesticide-sprinkled veggies on the shelves in a regular supermarket you must not be concerned with your health or that of your children. At least that's why people like Zsu advocate. I personally believe there is nothing wrong with buying the produce at say, Wal-Mart but it speaks a lot about the food industry how expensive organic food is. I'll spend three times buying food at Whole Foods what I would buying the same items at Stop n' Shop. But, let me get off my soapbox... within fundie circles it's that "let's get back to nature, let's get back to a simpler way of life, let's eat organically like Jesus did" supermom I-make-everything-from-scratch mindset that wins. Oh a side side, Zsu is careful of not feeding her children those harmful pesticides yet allows their vocab to include verbal poison like "f_g". Sad.

[Wolfie]

I believe that organic is best, but it's not always affordable. I don't really preach organic as much as I preach eating healthy. If you can't afford organic produce that's ok. But, at least buy and eat regular produce instead of pre-packaged crap that is salted to within an inch of its life.

I get a lot more upset seeing parents stuff fast food down their kids throats than I do seeing parents feeding their kids standard carrots instead of organic carrots.

Agreed.

BUT- there is as much prepackaged "organic" crap out there if you live in the right area. I buy organic when I can afford it, grow as organically as I can, etc, but sometimes the budget is just too tight. I'll try to get "real food" when that happens. (or like now, I've been canning up a storm to have stuff in the cabinet once fruits and veggies are out of season and the organic jumps back up in price.)

One thing that drives me crazy are the middle schoolers guzzling energy drinks. They don't need that much caffine.

[emmiedahl]

We used to eat almost entirely organic, but our food budget keeps shrinking. Now, we try to eat healthy. Organic is out of the question. Our food stamps were recently cut (not sure why) so it is a challenge just to eat, period. But I do manage to keep healthy food on the table. It's usually cheaper anyway.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Where I come from, the organic movement is a rich people's thing. Everyone else just buys the cheapest food they can find. And the middle class? There is no middle class here anymore.

[Feberin]

We could probably afford organic food if it was a priority but it isn't for me. We eat a reasonably healthy diet with plenty of fruits and veggies. We're trying to save up to be able to move in a couple years and for me saving money to get into a better school district before my son starts school is more important then him munching on an organic apple instead of a regular one. We also watched Penn and Teller's BS episode on organic food and they made a lot of good points such as it's not all locally grown, they can use certain pesticides and in taste tests people couldn't actually tell which was which. I feel like some people assume if it has organic stamped on it that makes it awesomely healthy. One of my friends is really into organic food for her daughter but it's so much prepared crap that just because it has organic stamped on it she thinks its SUPER healthy.

[xDreamerx]

I live with my parents when I'm not in university so I don't pay for food but we don't buy organic because as others have said, it's too costly. Also, the standards on what is allowed to be labelled 'organic' is very lax. It's almost like putting the word 'natural' or 'natural flavours' on food labels, it doesn't really mean anything. I heard it is slightly better if it is labelled U.S.D.A. Certified Organic, but I'm not sure if we have any such standard in Canada. Unless you buy from local farmer's markets and know the seller well. I personally don't see the problem with normal fruits and veg, provided they are washed well before you eat them. I grew up eating them and I'm just fine. But I'm a card carrying meat eater and the whole green, vegan, organic thing is just not for me. It won't ever be. I might be biased, because most of the people I know who are really granola were raised that way and were really sheltered. My one friend passed out because she ate some skittles and she gets sick very easily. She can't really handle much. Maybe others are stronger, but if a pack of skittles makes you pass out--that's just not right. I'm a firm believer in letting your kids have junk once in a while, just as a treat. But she'd never had any candy before and there she was 19 and all jacked up on white sugar like it's crack. It was kind of funny actually.

[ladypuglover]

Even growing it yourself doesn't make it organic as the seed is often treated with chemicals to prevent diseases in the plant and to prevent farmers from saving the seeds. And some farmers will un-ethically go to the local grocery and sell the produce as their own or mixed with their own.

For my own personal reasons, issues or psychosis, I prefer food as organic as possible but I know that is not always likely. We can not afford to buy only organic all the time. And sometimes my family just has to have a Big Mac or Snickers. Not an issue as long as our Big Macs and other naughty goodies are just kept to a minium. Now, excuse this hypocrite as she refreshes her diet pepsi. :shifty:

[Guest Anonymous]

Now, excuse this hypocrite as she refreshes her diet pepsi. :shifty:

Careful, or Steve Maxwell will come to your house and call you an idolator!

[Wolfie]

Even growing it yourself doesn't make it organic as the seed is often treated with chemicals to prevent diseases in the plant and to prevent farmers from saving the seeds. And some farmers will un-ethically go to the local grocery and sell the produce as their own or mixed with their own.

There are places that sell certified organic seeds, and to meet the USDA standards, the farms have to start with those. ( groworganic.com is one source, and they actually say if their stuff is borderline.) The seeds can't be treated to prevent seed saving, however some seed companies are breeding a "terminator" gene into their hybrids. (You wouldn't want to save a hybrid seed anyway, they won't grow true.)

I can't imagine trying to pass off store bought as their own at the farmer's markets here. I just bought Santa Rosa and Green Gage plums today for $2.50 a lb, they'd go broke trying to buy and sell at the prices at the farmers' markets here. (CA also has a strict organization of farmers' markets that have growers that have to prove they grow it.) The nearest farm stand labels what they've grown and what was grown at other local farms (and the other farm's name). I think that some states make it harder than others to cheat.

[Katiebug]

We eat organic for certain things and we're absolutely not fundies.

When I got pregnant we decided that all of our dairy products would be organic. When our daughter started eating solids, and especially table food, we started really figuring out what we wanted to feed our family. We try to buy organic for the produce on the "dirty dozen" list (but don't always succeed due to availability or price). We prefer meat and poultry raised humanely and without added hormones and antibiotics, and wild-caught fish in some cases. There are less-expensive sources of organic/hormone-free food - we buy a lot at BJ's, Trader Joe's, the supermarket, even Aldi. Only occasionally do we go to Whole Foods (I can't find organic potatoes anywhere else). We also buy from the farmer's market even if it's not organic, because we like local food when possible. There's definitely a "commercial" organic - organic apples shipped in from Chile aren't necessarily as sustainable as apples grown three miles from our home by a farmer who uses pesticides occasionally. We have a veggie garden at home and I prefer organic methods of growing but use conventional seed and will use non-organic products when called for.

[Jessica]

And sometimes my family just has to have a Big Mac or Snickers. Not an issue as long as our Big Macs and other naughty goodies are just kept to a minium.

Amen! ;)

[ladypuglover]

There are places that sell certified organic seeds, and to meet the USDA standards, the farms have to start with those. ( groworganic.com is one source, and they actually say if their stuff is borderline.) The seeds can't be treated to prevent seed saving, however some seed companies are breeding a "terminator" gene into their hybrids. (You wouldn't want to save a hybrid seed anyway, they won't grow true.)

I can't imagine trying to pass off store bought as their own at the farmer's markets here. I just bought Santa Rosa and Green Gage plums today for $2.50 a lb, they'd go broke trying to buy and sell at the prices at the farmers' markets here. (CA also has a strict organization of farmers' markets that have growers that have to prove they grow it.) The nearest farm stand labels what they've grown and what was grown at other local farms (and the other farm's name). I think that some states make it harder than others to cheat.

I agree that there are many sorces to get heirloom or organic seeds and why hybrids are not the best choice.

I also agree that some places do make it harder pass off grocery foods as their own butit still does go on in some areas. Here you stand a great chance of buying what the farmer really did grow but driving to the farmers market you can drive by 15 roadside stands selling food from out of state or even the country as pineapple isn't grown locally here in Colorado but its sold by sellers saying it was fresh picked this morning. :shock:

[clarinetpower]

There's also the fact that pesticides/herbicides, etc. have not been extensively tested to find out their effects on the body. Many fundies are likely worried about what the government is doing to them--ie pesticides disrupt hormones which means they can't have as many babies, etc.

I try to buy organic when I can, esp. the dirty dozen, but cost does prohibit it since we eat mostly fresh food and homemade stuff. There are some convenience products I use (I have 2 kids under 5), but they are things like salsa, pasta sauce, frozen meatballs, frozen ravioli, etc. that I know what the ingredients are, generally. I do most of my shopping at Wegman's, where the store brand items are as good or better than commercial ones, and they usually do not contain preservatives. I would love to eat 100% homemade, but I've found that 6-8 hours of sleep a night is kind of important. :shock: I just try to go for variety--we don't eschew anything in principal, but there are things we don't like. I was the rare 80's kid who hated Nacho Cheese Doritos and would not eat pepperoni pizza. My kids choose strawberries over cake and ice cream, and ask for fruit instead of fries at Chick-Fil-A when we do go out for fast food. But I admit it, we love Spaghetti-O's with meatballs (and yes, I know that they smell like vomit. We still love them.)

[debrand]

I don't buy organic but I do try and buy from a local farmer's stand. The farmer grows most of the produce that his family sells and he is honest if he got it elsewhere. Does he spray for insects? Maybe, but I'm helping a local businessman so I keep money in my community. It also helps the enviroment because he doesn't ship food from elsewhere. I pass his fields when I take my evening walk with my dog so I know what he plants.

[ReneeSmith]

My daughter is an organic farmer. We live in a small, rural community. She sells at local farmers markets and to restaurants in a nearby major metropolitan area, as well as on the Internet. Her business is thriving and growing faster than she can almost keep up with. We, or course, eat only organic vegetables and as much organic fruit as possible (not all growers here farm fruit organically). I ask the local fruit growers what chemicals they use on their crops and there are certain poisonous ones I won't touch.

My daughter usually charges the going price at supermarkets for her produce at the local markets unless it is a very rare and unusual crop. She gives her restaurants and other bulk buyers a break in price. Everyone knows her, knows her operation and trusts that she is totally and completely organic and local. We feel it is the responsible thing to do in terms of saving the environment to produce organic and eat local. Think of all the fuel spared when you buy local rather than buying something from Chile, for example. Also, she buys only organic seeds and in fact uses her own seeds as much as possible. We also grow our own poultry and buy from local organic pork and beef producers. Not only do we like the idea that they are not fed the wrong foods or antibiotics, we find it hard to support mass animal producers (such as chicken factories and beef feed lots) because of the extremely cruel ways the animals are raised. Our animals are raised for human consumption but are totally free-range and cared for in humane ways.

If you want to read about why you should eat organic, I recommend 2 books - "Botany of Desire", by Michael Pollan and "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle", by Barbara Kingsolver. You may never buy another potato at the grocery store when you read Pollan's account of the deadly chemical used by at least 90% of potato growers in the USA. This chemical is also used by many farmers in California, for example, on strawberries and other fruit.