Somehow I doubt she's an expert on this...

[Koala]

but when did that ever stop Lori?

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/04/children-overeating-off-limits.html#idc-container

Read the comments. This one really got me:

Good post. It's true what the person said above that parents have the control when they are little kids. We have had to portion and stop giving our daugther (2) all the food she wants. We adopted her when she was 15 months. We don't know a lot about the beginning of her life, but her father and mother did admit to their attorney of not feeding her enough when she was little. They made her go hours without eating; it's so sad! We don't know how often this happened.

Then, after she got used to her new home and felt safe with us she started eating and eating. She literally doesn't have a filter. She will eat more than my husband and I combined if we let her. Then, her belly sticks out REALLY far. It didn't take long for us to realize that someone was going on (we think from her past). When we first started portioning her food (with plenty of food for her to be full) she would cry and cry. Not everyone around us agree with what we are doing, but we feel it is important so she doesn't have an issue when she's older.

Now, she eats every last bit of food on her plate but doesn't cry for more. :) I know our situation is a little different than most, but this post reminded me of it.

:( I hope they are giving that sweet baby enough to eat. I also hope they spoke to a therapist and a pediatrician before making their decision.

Children are not like adults. Their bodies are growing. I can always tell when my kids are going through a growth spurt because they eat everything in sight. Once or twice during a growth spurt they have even woken up in the night and announced they were hungry, so we would go to the kitchen and make a bowl of cereal or a sandwich.

Healthy choices and lots of exercise (through play and sports)is what kids need. Not some whack job in their face telling them that the cookie they are eating is a sin. :roll:

[2xx1xy1JD]

Has it occurred to these people that maybe, just maybe, this girl is reacting to lack of food security in her past and that the only thing that will really help is making her feel more secure now? I can see the portioning making her panic, while the gorging may end once she fully realizes at a deep level that the food isn't going to disappear.

[nomi]

There's a woman who posts on a natural parenting board (mothering) that adopted a child from a country in Africa. She put severe dietary limits on this child and would feed her very small amounts of nutritionally valueless foods like organic rice puff cereal and such, lots of carbs an then complain and complain that her toddler was fat and overeating because all she did was lay about listlessly and beg for food when she managed to muster up the energy. It was really disgusting and sad.

It's sick to know that people do that to their children and then their "saviors" that adopt them from the situation perpetuate the issues by forcing their own ideals and beliefs on a child. If a child of mine exhibited that kind of behavior I wouldn't do a damn thing without a good therapist and nutritionist leading the way.

[tinuviel]

There's a woman who posts on a natural parenting board (mothering) that adopted a child from a country in Africa. She put severe dietary limits on this child and would feed her very small amounts of nutritionally valueless foods like organic rice puff cereal and such, lots of carbs an then complain and complain that her toddler was fat and overeating because all she did was lay about listlessly and beg for food when she managed to muster up the energy. It was really disgusting and sad.

It's sick to know that people do that to their children and then their "saviors" that adopt them from the situation perpetuate the issues by forcing their own ideals and beliefs on a child. If a child of mine exhibited that kind of behavior I wouldn't do a damn thing without a good therapist and nutritionist leading the way.

:shock: What the fuck?? Why the hell would someone do that?? I mean, kids whine, but if a kid is hungry you give them food!

I know a fundie family whose kids are always getting into trouble about food. They're all skinny and I don't think the parents can afford to get more groceries. Instead the kids are constantly getting in trouble for "stealing" food between meals. The kids don't complain about it much, since it's all they've ever known, but I think they're probably hungry a lot.

HINT--if otherwise honest child is constantly sneaking food and lying about it, THEY'RE PROBABLY HUNGRY!

[Mountain Girl]

Kids eat insane amounts of food when they have a growth spurt. It's normal-they don't grow on air. I wouldn't make any major changes in my kids' diet without consulting their doctor or a nutritionist, or a therapist if needed. And punishing a child who has likely suffered malnutrition for having issues with food...wow. How do these people make it through the adoption process?

[polabear]

This is freaky. There was a thread on a adoption disruption forum I read that sounds exactly like this - they were going to disrupt their interanational adoption because the child had "issues with food". They described the child eating until their stomach poked out. Of course, now I can't get the forum to load.

[tinuviel]

This is freaky. There was a thread on a adoption disruption forum I read that sounds exactly like this - they were going to disrupt their interanational adoption because the child had "issues with food". They described the child eating until their stomach poked out. Of course, now I can't get the forum to load.

GAH! What in the actual fuck??? I guess in the long run its better for the child NOT be to raised by obvious psychos, but how horrible! A child is not a puppy! And shit, I wouldn't even get rid of a puppy for some of the reasons fundies get rid of their children.

[Little Miss Alien]

If she's taken advice about the portioning, then fair enough, but otherwise it seems like she's not considering fixing the underlying issue, and when the child grows up she may binge on unhealthy foods and effectively be unable to control her own eating *cough*Smugar*cough*.

My Auntie is severely emetophobic. She used to resrict what my cousins (both big eaters) ate because she was terrified they would overeat and be sick. At our house, those kids would always be the first to the table, and piling the food on their plates (with my Aunt screeching about how they would be sick). Luckily neither seems to have been too effected, food wise, in the long run. They obviously got 'enough'.

[dawbs]

I don't know how you can listen to a plea for food and not give in.

I mean, sometimes I say "no, no chocolate, you can have a banana or yogurt", but...I just don't understand how you watch a kid beg for something you can provide, that's 'good' for them and say no.

And this puts me in mind of a story I remember reading about children who had been taken to an orphanage after being in something resembling a concentration camp. There were major issues w/ these kids--even though they now actually had food. The directors started issuing a piece of bread to each kid @ bedtime. Because it wasn't food the kids needed...it was the assurance that they would have food tomorrow. And that's what the bedtime bread was--they could eat and then go to sleep holding onto something, knowing they'd be fed tomorrow.

I wish I could find the piece...

But a deprived kid needs the assurance that he/she won't continue to be deprived.

[fundiefun]

I can understand if she had taken advice from her doctor since I know some children its so severe they will gorge themselves until vomiting. That child is going to have issues and it won't go away as she gets older.

[Koala]

This is freaky. There was a thread on a adoption disruption forum I read that sounds exactly like this - they were going to disrupt their interanational adoption because the child had "issues with food". They described the child eating until their stomach poked out. Of course, now I can't get the forum to load.

You know, honestly in a situation like that I am glad they are disrupting it. Someone that is willing to give up their child over "issues with food" doesn't deserve to parent them anyway, and there's honestly no telling what they would do if they kept them.

I mean what they fuck are they thinking when they adopt these kids? They're are going quit over food? Dear god how the hell do these heartless bastards get through the adoption process without all kinds of red flags going up???

[Conuly]

I mean, sometimes I say "no, no chocolate, you can have a banana or yogurt", but...I just don't understand how you watch a kid beg for something you can provide, that's 'good' for them and say no.

I do say no to my nieces, but that's because otherwise they'll snack right up until dinnertime and then claim they're not hungry, or dawdle over the breakfast table until noon. So I've started shutting the snackbar at 4:30 every day EXCEPT after swimming. (Swimming, aside from being an active activity, gets us home late, so they have a planned snack right after it.)

Oddly, after I started more strictly enforcing the snack rule (prior to that I would often give in and let them have it) the younger niece has stopped eating so much at school as well. And the older niece has started eating MORE at school, which means both of them are doing what we really wanted! But that wasn't the goal, the goal was just to make sure they ate some of their dinners.

And anyway, neither of them has ever had any food insecurity or actual hunger. Food is always available, and unless the quantity of a certain item really is limited or it's really bad for them they can take as much as they want. Children who have been severely hungry (and adults as well) are often very cagey about food. They sneak it, they hide it, they hoard it, and they eat a lot of it. They can't help it, they need to make sure there's enough. This kid needs help from competent therapists, she doesn't need good, nutritious food to be limited.

[Artemis]

Children with attachment disorder also gorge, sometimes till they vomit, steal food and hoard. It's part of the symptom cluster. It's not bad behaviour, it's a reaction to the uncertanty of their lives. How on earth do these people get to adopt? I swear they'd never get through the process here - just being 'Christian' isn't enough.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I think these people are nuts. If you are providing healthy food and the kid is eating their fill, there is NOTHING wrong. In my opinion. I'm sorry, i consider myself pretty crunchy granola, and my kid pretty much is a grazer- and eats ALL. DAY. LONG. I have no issue with it, as he eats a TON of healthy foods. If its healthy WTF is the issue? Oh I forgot! fundies=CONTROL. :evil:

My 2 year old has a drawer in the fridge. In said drawer are cheese sticks, apples, baby carrots, that sort of thing~ nothing that requires prep. He gets free reign of the garden in summer time. (last year I lost 1/2 of my tomato crop to his snacking) He frequently goes and gets it himself (he's one of those really independent kids who like to do everything themselves. Woe be on me if I don't let him crack his scrambled eggs into the pan). He's also only in the 20th percentile for weight. He eats as my mother puts it "like a trucker". Seriously the kid eats more for breakfast than I do!!!

[Kitty]

ARGH Chrome at my last post, so I'll say it again.

First, what the hell is wrong with someone's stomach poking out after a meal? I eat the same amount anyone else I know does, and my stomach pokes out. It's because I'm skinny and my stomach has nowhere else to go, so it goes out. It sucks, but that's life. I think that's forcing beauty standards on children. Do fundies really expect flat tummies on kids? Their bellies will probably be kinda big anyway if they're thin... that's how I was.

Second, kids do eat a lot. I've been tasked with entertaining a class of first-graders (in high school, fortunately I was part of the class entertaining the first-graders) and we had to order shit-tons of pizza. The high-schoolers would only eat a slice or two, the little kids would pack away twice that much. Each. They're growing. While they shouldn't gorge on pizza all the time, what's wrong with them eating everything in sight as long as what they're eating is healthy? They're freaking growing!

Third, I keep hearing the phrase "stealing food" and I really don't understand it. Maybe it's because I had plenty to eat growing up and my parents weren't control freaks, but I was always under the impression that any food in the house was for the whole family, unless it was to be someone else's lunch the next day or saved for a special occasion. It's not stealing if it also belongs to you. I think "sneaking" food is a better term, because that's what they're doing. Also, the only people I've found who say their kids "steal" their food are abusive, controlling asswipes and think the food is all theirs and the kids are simply borrowing it, or something. Sneaking and hoarding food is a good sign that something is wrong, and saying they're stealing is like saying they have no right to the food their parents bought for their use.

[tinuviel]

I think these people are nuts. If you are providing healthy food and the kid is eating their fill, there is NOTHING wrong. In my opinion. I'm sorry, i consider myself pretty crunchy granola, and my kid pretty much is a grazer- and eats ALL. DAY. LONG. I have no issue with it, as he eats a TON of healthy foods. If its healthy WTF is the issue? Oh I forgot! fundies=CONTROL. :evil:

My 2 year old has a drawer in the fridge. In said drawer are cheese sticks, apples, baby carrots, that sort of thing~ nothing that requires prep. He gets free reign of the garden in summer time. (last year I lost 1/2 of my tomato crop to his snacking) He frequently goes and gets it himself (he's one of those really independent kids who like to do everything themselves. Woe be on me if I don't let him crack his scrambled eggs into the pan). He's also only in the 20th percentile for weight. He eats as my mother puts it "like a trucker". Seriously the kid eats more for breakfast than I do!!!

:roflol: Love the mental image of a toddler descending upon the tomatoes like a plague.

I can see limiting snacks right before a meal time or whatever. My parents did that, and it was no big deal. Or if I was "staaaaaaarving!" my mom would give me a glass of milk or some apple slices or whatever lol. But YEAH. Hitting your kid because they "stole" food? Fucked. Up.

[Aeryn406]

I love the grazing snack drawer! I'm sure having that lets him learn his own physical cues for when he's really feeling hungry & when he's just bored. (I'm starting to see that I'm a bored-snacker, so I've started having healthy no-prep things for myself, too.) I heard a WW mentor say that we eat by the clock so much anymore that we've learned to override our body's signals for food & water and you actually have to retrain youself to listen to your own stomach.

Re: "stealing food" - My mom sometimes went down this road, but in a passive-aggressive way - snippy remarks about the grocery bill, silent treatment, or saying I couldn't get an item at the store because I'd eaten something she was "saving". It was sporadic, which made it awful to predict *when* she'd get mad & what the trigger would be. I think it had to do with her growing up during the Depression, being the oldest girl (you get very little because you have to give it to the "babies") and being responsible for all the bills on a tight, Social Security budget. In our own house (A-boy & myself), though - food is food.. If you want it, take it. If it gets low, tell somebody or write it down so we can get more.

[Austin]

I agree with everyone, especially on the issue of growth spurts. I remember at different times fixing a sandwich in the middle of the night for one or another of my boys. If a child wakes me and tells me he's hungry, despite a bedtime snack, I'm going to feed him, even if it's 3:30 a.m. All of our children were slim (usually 90th percentile height, 20% percentile weight or similar numbers), so if a child was hungrier for a few weeks, I would just assume it was a growth spurt and go with it.

But I don't know how you deny a child, even an overweight child, food. There are good choices that can be offered and if the parent denies food, the more the child wants it or sneaks it which just compounds the issue.

[Little Miss Alien]

When my son first started with his growth spurts as a toddler and milk wasn't enough any more, I remember feeding him yoghurt at 3am in the dark so as not to wake him too much. Now when I notice his eating increasing and suspect he is growing I will usually offer him the option of a bowl of cheerios before bed to keep him going overnight.

I also grew up in a family where food was available to all unless it was for a special occasion. Both my parents would share foods that had been bought especially for 'them' if us kids wanted some. Now I'll happily give my son my last anything, and even my childless sister will share a particular type of ham that is a favourite of hers, with my son.

[ilovetchotchkes]

When my son first started with his growth spurts as a toddler and milk wasn't enough any more, I remember feeding him yoghurt at 3am in the dark so as not to wake him too much. Now when I notice his eating increasing and suspect he is growing I will usually offer him the option of a bowl of cheerios before bed to keep him going overnight.

I also grew up in a family where food was available to all unless it was for a special occasion. Both my parents would share foods that had been bought especially for 'them' if us kids wanted some. Now I'll happily give my son my last anything, and even my childless sister will share a particular type of ham that is a favourite of hers, with my son.

Toddlers eat like hobbits! Today we had all the hobbit meals, and in about 10 minutes when I get myself a bowl of cereal, I will be expected to share, i'm SURE of it.

And restricting stuff too to "kid food" also can lead to fussy eaters in a way. Which us non fundies would take in stride if it happened to just be a fussy kid, who despite how you fed em decided they only wanted to eat white foods. However, fundies would freak out and force the kid to eat cold oat meal over and over and over again because it would be an "act of rebellion".

[dairyfreelife]

My Auntie is severely emetophobic. She used to resrict what my cousins (both big eaters) ate because she was terrified they would overeat and be sick. At our house, those kids would always be the first to the table, and piling the food on their plates (with my Aunt screeching about how they would be sick). Luckily neither seems to have been too effected, food wise, in the long run. They obviously got 'enough'.

:oops: I'm severely emetophobic too. It sucks.

As for the issue. I agree that's a bad idea to withhold food BUT having a cousin who was adopted overseas from an orphanage at the age of four, food hoarding and gorging is often a problem. Sometimes limits are placed and recommended with therapy because of the child's food insecurity. I hope that the woman the OP quoted is only using real doctor's advice and working on helping the child through the insecurity. With time, the child will usually feel secure and not need to gorge or hoard.

[ladypuglover]

You all said it for be I just wanted to chime in with an I concur.

[MrsKay]

My kids are all grazers as well, and I have healthy snack options that they are welcome to take at any time. I grew up in serious poverty, and have a lot of food issues because of it. I'm old enough, however, to take control of it and limit myself, since I'm old enough to understand where food comes from, and to know that I'm not going to starve tomorrow. What the hell does a 15 month old know about that??? That makes me so sad.

[Petronella7]

There's a woman who posts on a natural parenting board (mothering) that adopted a child from a country in Africa. She put severe dietary limits on this child and would feed her very small amounts of nutritionally valueless foods like organic rice puff cereal and such, lots of carbs an then complain and complain that her toddler was fat and overeating because all she did was lay about listlessly and beg for food when she managed to muster up the energy. It was really disgusting and sad.

It's sick to know that people do that to their children and then their "saviors" that adopt them from the situation perpetuate the issues by forcing their own ideals and beliefs on a child. If a child of mine exhibited that kind of behavior I wouldn't do a damn thing without a good therapist and nutritionist leading the way.

I am on that board and I read that discussion too! It was horrifying. This woman very obviously had eating issues herself and it disturbed her to no end to see a girl child eat large quantities of food. She could not bear to handle or prepare protein-rich foods in the quantities that this growing child required. It was a very long thread and the situation went on for months and months. One anecdote concerned the woman taking her toddler to a play date and becoming mortified about what people might think after the child asked for a second mini-muffin. She left the playgroup and never returned. Also she complained that the family could no longer go to restaurants due to the girl's eating. Just completely disordered thinking. Other board members were begging her to get some therapy.

[JesusFightClub]

What a sad situation. :( :( That poor child feeling so judged for wanting to eat. I honestly think I'd make a better mum than some of these people, which is saying something.

In our flat and a lot of other places I've been in, we do what we call "food communism" (and "alcohol communism", but you'd want to miss that out with kids, natch ;)) From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Everything in the fridge or in the cupboard is fair game unless you specifically ask someone not to take it ("I made this for Senga's birthday on Tuesday, please don't eat it"). In return, you provide food for all to eat. I will buy food but not dumpster dive, some people only dumpster dive, some do both.

I found this really helpful in resetting some of my disordered ideas about food. I now know there will always be food, it's OK to eat it and I feel happy to work for the food and if I can't eat it, a comrade will gladly. This is why I reckon snack drawer is a great idea. It teaches kids healthy and sensible food thinking. Eating tomatos from the patch is great too!