New from the Botkinettes

[GenerationCedarchip]

I didn't see it mentioned when I searched, so I just thought I'd mention that the Botkinettes have a new post up:

visionarydaughters.com/2012/04/trapped-in-a-tower-asks-for-advice

Apparently, giving advice to real people in real situations is kinda tricky, so let's go for fictional characters instead. BTW, am I the only person who sees the reference to Rapunzel as a rather telling one for these ladies? At any rate, I'll be curious to read the promised follow-up post.

I'll admit to a certain Botkin fascination. I think the kids all seem bright, and I keep waiting to see if one of them is going to wake up and smell the Kool-Aid.

[silvia]

This is bizarro-world stuff--reads like one of them had a dream and decided to transcribe it. (If so, the symbolism in the dream was right on. If the Botkinettes aren't trapped in a tower, I don't know who is.)

[lilah]

there are definitely some striking paralels with tangled and the sahd-lifestyle. Espmecially how Rapunzel is persuaded she's staying in the tower for her own safety. And the whole litany of menial activities to stave off boredom.

[PBrooke]

Well, it's not a dream - that's the plot of the movie Tangled. I'm kind of interested in this actually, since the comparisons to SAHD and fundies pop up in my mind every time I see the movie.

[gustava]

They're right that I want to know how they reply. Bizarro is an understatement.

[houseworksucks]

They left out the part about how (to fundies) the mother was an occult practitioner kidnapper who was verbally abusive and coerced Rapunzel to also dabble in the occult.

[Olive Plant]

How much do you want to bet that they're going to say "your [adopted mom who stole you and kept you in a tower] is designated as your authority by God himself, so don't go looking for your [real mom and dad] because that is the sin of rebellion."

For real, I can't think of anything else they could say and still stay on-message. I just hope that if they do actually have the wherewithal to realize that's where their logic leads them, someone kidnaps them and then reads them their own words. Or, because that's really mean, I wish they at least have a dream that's so convincing they actually think they're in that situation and realize how horrible it would be. Or something.

[bananacat]

Fundies could really learn some lessons from Rapunzel. In the original story, the stepmother found out about Rapunzel's visiting prince when she wondered aloud why her dresses were getting tight around her middle. The moral of the story is for parents, not kids. You can literally lock your daughter in a tower but the world will still find her. I find it supremely ironic that anyone could twist the story to push some fundie lesson. These people are really, really bad at understanding even the most obvious metaphors.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Wow...they have surpassed the level of self-parody and are definitely in Crazytown. Would that their answer to Rapunzel - "tell your stepmom to go fuck herself and do what you want" - be posted in the dead of night as they flee the Botpound.

[Hane]

They left out the part about how (to fundies) the mother was an occult practitioner kidnapper who was verbally abusive and coerced Rapunzel to also dabble in the occult.

Yup times eleventy. A while back, one of their friends (or of another of "our" fundies) did a review of "Tangled" that criticized Rapunzel for being "feministic"--ignoring the fact that Rapunzel's "mother" in all versions of the story was the bad guy.

[sarahbrownie]

Well, it's not a dream - that's the plot of the movie Tangled. I'm kind of interested in this actually, since the comparisons to SAHD and fundies pop up in my mind every time I see the movie.

:shock: I'll never see that movie the same way again.

[Marian the Librarian]

I spotted this latest post by the Botkinettes on Saturday, and have held off on commenting because I find it, frankly, just too ridiculous. This one really feels to me like they're baiting the outside world. "C'mon, knock these Dominionist chips off our shoulders! Argue with us over this one, we dare you!"

BTW, it was the "Ah the Life" Reins sisters who wrote their review of "Tangled" (see "Mangled" on ahthelife.blogspot.com, 12/28/10.)

Tangled is schooling it's (sic) viewers in the acceptance of immorality.

And just for laughs, here's a quote from Kelly Reins' Facebook page.

The Lord is so good to me. The schedule I keep is random. Work gets done when it has to get done and when it's done it doesn't matter what happens next. It's 1pm and I am still in my bathrobe. Work now sleep later for as long as you need. Oh the freedom of a stay-at-home daughter!

(This little Princess of Smug is 35 years old, folks.)

How, exactly, are we to respond to these stay-at-home, Kool-Aid drinking, daddy-worshiping daughters in their twenties and thirties, reviewing a Disney cartoon meant for children? The only possible response the Botkins are going to give "Trapped in a Tree," their fictional advice-seeker, is their usual "suck it up and submit" bullshit.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I don't know why, but the Reims sisters freak me out even more than the Botkinettes.

[JesusFightClub]

The Botkinettes disturb me. They are like wind up dolls. You can almost see the repression coming off them in waves.

On a related note I refuse to believe Daddy Botkin was ever a Marxist as he claims. I would like to ask him a series of questions to test this theory. Some shit, you can't Wiki for.

[GenerationCedarchip]

I don't know why, but the Reims sisters freak me out even more than the Botkinettes.

Me, too. I think for me it's because I get the sense that the Botkinettes have some intelligence and there's some capability for independent thought there. The Reins just seem to have drunk the Kool-Aid completely. They shill for Vision Forum and similar places but you just don't seem to get much of a sense of who they are. It's like everything has been too deeply repressed.

[Olive Plant]

The Botkinettes disturb me. They are like wind up dolls. You can almost see the repression coming off them in waves.

On a related note I refuse to believe Daddy Botkin was ever a Marxist as he claims. I would like to ask him a series of questions to test this theory. Some shit, you can't Wiki for.

He wasn't. He went to public school and his grandfather may have been a democrat. Hence his claim of "Marxism." His parents were not even remotely Marxist. They were mainstream conservative Protestants. This really bugs me about him since he's all about honoring fathers. Only he doesn't honor his own father. He lies about him.

[JesusFightClub]

He wasn't. He went to public school and his grandfather may have been a democrat. Hence his claim of "Marxism." His parents were not even remotely Marxist. They were mainstream conservative Protestants. This really bugs me about him since he's all about honoring fathers. Only he doesn't honor his own father. He lies about him.

Ah! Thanks. Thought I couldn't dislike him more but now I do. That is serious disrespect. It's not allowing people their own beliefs but assigning ones to them they don't hold. Ick!

I've been a Marxist for over ten years and he has never seemed remotely like one. For a start, you aren't just "a Marxist" apropos of nothing. I don't give my political history out online, but I could if for some bizarre reason I thought it was a good plan. I doubt anyone would care to know this, but that is beside the point. I *could*.

I'm not a public figure and no one would give a fuck. Daddy Botkin is, or tries to be. So why does he not give his family's Party background? Oh yeah, because they haven't fucking got one.

I am actually seriously pissed off by this. Being a Marxist means you walk picket lines. You study. You stand in solidarity with workers all over the world. You demonstrate. You may, in other countries, be beaten, arrested, assaulted or killed.

Fascists overturn street stalls here sometimes (has Daddy Botkin ever been on a street stall? Rhetorical question). Oh yeah, you do street stalls. You sell papers (or attempt to) ;) You flypost. Leaflet, petition, direct action, strike. And it's all because you know there is something better out there than the crap we put up with now. You can see the early days of a better nation. A better world.

This may be a tiny bit like Lina and Taliban Tony's "fake Jew" thing which is so irritating to real Jews. Of course, politics ain't religion. But it makes me angry that he stole something vital for cheap thrills for his followers. Something deeper and far more important than he is.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Me, too. I think for me it's because I get the sense that the Botkinettes have some intelligence and there's some capability for independent thought there. The Reins just seem to have drunk the Kool-Aid completely. They shill for Vision Forum and similar places but you just don't seem to get much of a sense of who they are. It's like everything has been too deeply repressed.

I was thinking about it more, and I think for me it is their weird disconnect from what most people want out of life. Like, the Botkinettes and most other SAHDs acknowledge that people want a PURPOSE, even if they totally over-inflate the meaning of what they do and are too rigid about what they are allowed to pursue. Elizabeth and AS at least do things like write books, travel, etc. The Reims girls think that "Ah, the Life" is being in their mid-thirties and being in a bathrobe all day because it is your father's Biblical duty to pay all your bills and keep you in his house. It's funny, except that it's deeply creepy how smug they are about it.

[Koala]

The Lord is so good to me. The schedule I keep is random. Work gets done when it has to get done and when it's done it doesn't matter what happens next. It's 1pm and I am still in my bathrobe. Work now sleep later for as long as you need. Oh the freedom of a stay-at-home daughter!

(This little Princess of Smug is 35 years old, folks.)

:shock: Ah the freedom to not have a fucking life. :roll:

[slh12280]

(This little Princess of Smug is 35 years old, folks.)

:shock: Ah the freedom to not have a fucking life. :roll:

You know that is okay for me for a couple days. By the time a week is up I am starting to get bored. I don't know how they do it. I need to work, go to school, something.

[Kishiria]

(This little Princess of Smug is 35 years old, folks.)

:shock: Ah the freedom to not have a fucking life. :roll:

So, Princess, you noticed your periods starting to get a lil' wonky sometimes?

[MamaJunebug]

(This little Princess of Smug is 35 years old, folks.)

:shock: Ah the freedom to not have a fucking life. :roll:

I dunno ... sounds like depression to me.

And as a survivor of a sibling's depression (suicide) and the daughter of a woman who lay abed 'til noon and 1 pm and then prowled the house at night, and who as I take my own meds daily, I know depression.

Myself, I am in my pj's at 10 am - and happy about that -- but the tradeoff is that to keep fiscally sound I'm not going with my friends to Crystal Bridges Museum this weekend, never shop lest I buy something I don't really need, etc. And I did WOTH for 30 years.

But I do keep the home on a schedule and my work current out of respect for my The Spousal Unit and our friends and children who visit with us -- and for my own mental peace of mind.

It's my home, you see.

The Sisters Reims are in their folks' home, OtOH. The Sisters R have never self-supported, although if one reads closely one sees that they earn money in color analysis (I guess some folk still do that), costume construction and .... er .... other stuff. They've been involved with some VF-friendly films.

By accounts their parents are not a fraction of the way into the VF/Dominionist lifestyle, in contrast to the elder Botkins. I really wonder about Mrs. Reims. Is she content with the daughterly equivalent of basement-dwelling, self-indulgent sons??

We are pretty sure the Reimsettes don't live in any basement, first because I don't think they have those in northern Texas and second because they previously boasted about the huge new home they moved into a few years back. With photos, if one cares to browse.

Maybe the home is large enough that Mrs. Reims is able to go about her business without a soprano version of, "Ma!!!! Meatloaf!!!" coming from above instead of belowstairs. And daughters tend to be more self-sufficient (go ahead, hate on me for that ;) ) and so probably do their own laundry and maybe wash their dishes when they're through with a snack.

But boy, were my 30-something Juniors to move back in, appear in bathrobes at 15:30 hours and tromp around when I'm trying to sleep ... well, let's just pray it doesn't happen! :o

P/S: JFightClub, your devotion to Marxism, and your road there, intrigue me; I honor your plan to keep your bio private but if you could direct me to some reading about Marxists in the first-world countries in 2012 I'd really be interested in knowing more! Sincere Thx!

[ilovetchotchkes]

I dunno ... sounds like depression to me.

And as a survivor of a sibling's depression (suicide) and the daughter of a woman who lay abed 'til noon and 1 pm and then prowled the house at night, and who as I take my own meds daily, I know depression.

Myself, I am in my pj's at 10 am - and happy about that -- but the tradeoff is that to keep fiscally sound I'm not going with my friends to Crystal Bridges Museum this weekend, never shop lest I buy something I don't really need, etc. And I did WOTH for 30 years.

But I do keep the home on a schedule and my work current out of respect for my The Spousal Unit and our friends and children who visit with us -- and for my own mental peace of mind.

It's my home, you see.

The Sisters Reims are in their folks' home, OtOH. The Sisters R have never self-supported, although if one reads closely one sees that they earn money in color analysis (I guess some folk still do that), costume construction and .... er .... other stuff. They've been involved with some VF-friendly films.

By accounts their parents are not a fraction of the way into the VF/Dominionist lifestyle, in contrast to the elder Botkins. I really wonder about Mrs. Reims. Is she content with the daughterly equivalent of basement-dwelling, self-indulgent sons??

We are pretty sure the Reimsettes don't live in any basement, first because I don't think they have those in northern Texas and second because they previously boasted about the huge new home they moved into a few years back. With photos, if one cares to browse.

Maybe the home is large enough that Mrs. Reims is able to go about her business without a soprano version of, "Ma!!!! Meatloaf!!!" coming from above instead of belowstairs. And daughters tend to be more self-sufficient (go ahead, hate on me for that ;) ) and so probably do their own laundry and maybe wash their dishes when they're through with a snack.

But boy, were my 30-something Juniors to move back in, appear in bathrobes at 15:30 hours and tromp around when I'm trying to sleep ... well, let's just pray it doesn't happen! :o

P/S: JFightClub, your devotion to Marxism, and your road there, intrigue me; I honor your plan to keep your bio private but if you could direct me to some reading about Marxists in the first-world countries in 2012 I'd really be interested in knowing more! Sincere Thx!

I woudln't say that kind of schedule is 100-% indicative of depression more than the bathrobe is. That's the tip off for me. I have noticed a distinct correlation between my "good days" and me getting out of bed and getting the kid dressed (he always gets dressed. He doesn't always KEEP the clothes on but I at least make an effort for him) and me getting out of my PJs. Bad day? i'm still in em when my husband gets home.

[Marian the Librarian]

a soprano version of, "Ma!!!! Meatloaf!!!" coming from above

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks as always for the laughs and the insights, MJB.

The Botkins were my gateway fundies, and I freely admit they (and the whole SAHD crowd) set my teeth on edge in a way that no one else can. (And that's saying a lot, in a universe that includes Dougie, Thinking Housewife, Kidist, ZsuZsu...)

Could my response stem from envy? Sure - I've been self-supporting since I turned 21. I've worked full-time in public service for nigh unto 4 decades, and never took a handout from anyone. I'm also willing to consider the possibility that they're depressed (I, too, know from that end of the gene pool) - and yet, when I'm confronted with the Botkins'/Reins' goody-goody-gumdrops, ain't-we-got-fun, little-miss-perfect blogs and books and public personae, the phrase that consistently springs first to my mind is "Sisterhood of the High Holy Order of Smug."

Are they brainwashed? Emotionally incested? Stripped of any last vestige of independent thought or ambition, all in the name of following "Biblical guidelines" and "having a servant's heart?" In the case of the Botkins, no question - IMNSHO, I think Dad is one gigantic bucket o' crazy, and he's done a first-class job of visiting same on all his offspring. In the case of the Reins - who the hell knows? Maybe they're just plain lazy.

If these women want to live lives of professional spongehood, long past the point where anyone has ceased to care about the state of their hymens or their "purity of heart," good luck to them. But I believe it is criminal for them to preach this horse hockey as a desirable lifestyle to impressionable young girls. Lack of education and marketable work skills makes women vulnerable to abuse, poverty and misery. No matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, it's still a pig.

Thus endeth my rant.

[thetabmeister]

Well, I wrote an email epistle in response. Since, you know, they did ask what we THINK. Oh, I thought all right. I just took time away from my precious kiddos and my laundry (oh the horrors) and sat at my computer for 30 minutes pounding out my response. These stay at home daughters are really not encouraging me in my stay at home motherness. Oh well.

I thought I made some pretty good points, besides the parts where I wanted to reach through my computer screen and shake them. I doubt my response will get posted, but I am sure I will get a condescending "why-I'm-so-wicked" email in reply. :shock: