This is guarding your heart?

[kesb79]

So yesterday I was randomly re-reading the Bethany and Dan Beasley courtship story, which features old favorites like:

Dan's "unwritten list" of potential Mrs. Beasleys

Dan's early observation that Bethany "was very friendly and outgoing, but guarded her heart. I have a deep respect for girls who don’t throw their hearts around."

"When I moved to Virginia in July of 2008 the thought crossed my mind that I should talk with some girl’s dad just to put my name in."

Dan's oh-so-romantic "3 points" to make during his first call to Bethany's dad (#2 being my personal favorite):

1) To put him on notice of my intentions

2) To see if I even had a chance of someday marrying one of his daughters (I wanted to put my name in the hat if nothing else)

3) To let him know that I would never start a relationship or marry his daughter without his full blessing and permission.

And most importantly, the timeline:

March 6, 2009: first call to Mr. Wissmann

March 8, 2009: "green light" from Mr. and Mrs. Wissmann, but Mr. Wissmann "wanted to talk with Bethany before he officially turned me loose."

March 12, 2009: Mr. Wissmann has 'the talk' with Bethany.

March 13, 2009: Bethany agrees to begin courtship

March 14, 2009: Mr. Wissmann contacts Dan to tell him that Bethany's good to go

March 14, 2009: Dan calls Bethany for the first time.

March 26, 2009: (presumably after several phone conversations, but nothing more since he lived in Virginia and she in Nebraska at the time) They went on their first date.

Bethany's words:

"Talk about a special and amazing first date. It began with a walk in Lincoln’s downtown hay market, where Dan stopped and personally asked me if I’d enter a courting relationship him? [There are MANY definitions of what courtship is; to us – it meant getting to know each other with the intent to get married but having the ultimate goal of discerning God's will.] You all know what my answer was to his question, and after walking, talking, and praying, Dan led me to Vincenzo’s Italian Restaurant where my amazing man had reserved a corner booth and had a dozen gorgeous red roses waiting along with a box of gourmet truffles. What a joy it was to share with each other how God had worked in our hearts in the past months, preparing us for this new season and each other."

Ok...TODAY, March 26, 2012, Bethany posted on her blog that "three years ago today this dashing man told me... for the first time...three words I've never forgotten...'I love you.'"

SERIOUSLY? I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but after claiming to have so much respect for not throwing one's heart around, he dropped the "L" bomb on their first in-person date? I mean, she explicitly stated that that night they were commencing their courtship which meant they were "getting to know each other." Apparently, though, there was not much heart guarding going on after that first phone call!

[Visionoyahweh]

To be fair, Dan already made the gay love connection with Bethany's dad. The woman's involvement is pretty peripheral in the courting process.

[Shirley MacLaine]

Ew, if someone dropped the Lovebomb on me on a first date, I would run screaming into the fucking night. Red flag, red flag!

[Anise]

No, it is weird- usually fundies wait at least until engagement to say "I love you".

But considering the un-chaparoned corner booth at an Italian restaurant, I'm not surprised. They probably felt that since they had done all the "right" first steps, they would automatically fall in love (although that's not supposed to happen until at least after the engagement if not the wedding). And also being sheltered, the guy probably didn't know the difference between attraction and love.

[Mountain Girl]

At least they had unchaperoned dates. That's better than the usual fundie hot dates.

[ADoyle90815]

Ew, if someone dropped the Lovebomb on me on a first date, I would run screaming into the fucking night. Red flag, red flag!

Exactly. I did run screaming when someone started talking about marriage after about a couple of weeks of dating, but not only did I listen to that red flag, I had to threaten a RO to get him to leave me alone as he was starting to stalk me. I was fully prepared to follow through on that threat, but fortunately he took it seriously and has left me completely alone. He along with my ex-husband were immediately blocked when I joined Facebook so he couldn't start cyberstalking me.

[browngrl]

Here is the timeline of my courtship with Mr Browngrl:

3:00 pm - get on train to visit relatives

3:05pm - Mr Browngrl says "is this seat taken?" and sits down

8:00pm - decision made to get married/L word out there

...and here we are happier than ever 14 years later.

I wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened to me.

[SpeakNow]

My grandfather proposed to my grandmother on his first date, and eloped with her 1 month later. After four kids and a marriage that lasted until they both passed away, I would say that their short courtship was successful. Not saying it's right for everyone, but it can work.

[ZTwist]

Yeah, I knew my DH was the one after three weeks of dating. We'll be married 29 yrs this summer.

Though that's not always the case, of course.

[fluttershies]

Here is the timeline of my courtship with Mr Browngrl:

3:00 pm - get on train to visit relatives

3:05pm - Mr Browngrl says "is this seat taken?" and sits down

8:00pm - decision made to get married/L word out there

...and here we are happier than ever 14 years later.

I wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened to me.

That's such an awesome Brief Encounter style story! I'm very jealous ;)

But in the main, I think these couples set themselves up for such heartbreak. As someone said in I think the Jana Duggar thread, arranged marriages can work very well if everyone wants it (an arranged marriage is NOT a forced marriage), but in fundie circles the notion of modern romantic love gets mixed in with it, and so it just doesn't work. No couple entering an arranged marriage would expect to drop the L word so soon, because love gets to build and grow together.

And obviously, even those dating would usually wait longer than this.

I hold my hands up - I have never been in a relationship and I'm 23, but even I seem to grasp this better than SAHDs/SAHSs. My lack of dating is due to having other things to worry about (homelessness, mental health problems, problems with my alcoholic bio dad, abuse at school from coming out) and I don't find myself attracted to many people anyway. There's no shame in not pursuing romance, but that shouldn't prevent you from being realistic when it does happen.

[Letgo]

To be fair, Dan already made the gay love connection with Bethany's dad. The woman's involvement is pretty peripheral in the courting process.

I am still laughing over this! There really needs to be a large warning posted at FJ about the dangers of drinking any type of beverage while viewing each topic.

Has anyone ever done any research on how this type of very rapid courtship and marriage fares in the long run? These folks look happy in their pictures and they post happy, but don't any of them ever later think that it went too fast? That he/she isn't as nice as he/she seemed?

These girls seem to meet someone who has expressed a desire to court and marry and, lo and behold, they're in love!!!111!!!!! And he is the best EVER!!! So manly, so sweet, so strong, so godly; daddy picked such a great guy! When the initial infatuation wears off, what happens? I can't see that they ALL actually do find that their new brides/grooms are just as wonderful as they were in the beginning. Can all of them really end up loving each other?

[Shirley MacLaine]

Here is the timeline of my courtship with Mr Browngrl:

3:00 pm - get on train to visit relatives

3:05pm - Mr Browngrl says "is this seat taken?" and sits down

8:00pm - decision made to get married/L word out there

...and here we are happier than ever 14 years later.

I wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened to me.

That's an awesome story!

[browngrl]

That's an awesome story!

We did live together (in sin!!) for 9 months before the wedding - mostly to give the relatives time to stop hyperventilating.

[Letgo]

Here is the timeline of my courtship with Mr Browngrl:

3:00 pm - get on train to visit relatives

3:05pm - Mr Browngrl says "is this seat taken?" and sits down

8:00pm - decision made to get married/L word out there

...and here we are happier than ever 14 years later.

I wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened to me.

But did you get married within the week? I know there can be instant attraction between two people and they just "know" from that first meeting or very early on in the relationship. But were you sheltered as these girls are? I don't think so, since you seemed to be on that train without a chaperone! The shame! These girls have very little life experience. And YOU found Mr. Browngrl. He did not approach your father first, with a list of his writings, beliefs, and letters of recommendation.

I knew my husband was The One very early, although I did not tell him at the time. And my father did not meet him until after we were engaged. I think it might have been when my parents came for the wedding. It was MY choice to marry, not his. But he liked my choice very much. :D

[fluttershies]

Don't forget that stalking is a-okay when it comes to fundies, for TT and Lina anyway...

[JesusFightClub]

Here is the timeline of my courtship with Mr Browngrl:

3:00 pm - get on train to visit relatives

3:05pm - Mr Browngrl says "is this seat taken?" and sits down

8:00pm - decision made to get married/L word out there

...and here we are happier than ever 14 years later.

I wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened to me.

That is nice :)

In my case I am the least romantic person ever so while I really enjoy other people's stories (having that emotion must be fantastic!) I haven't experienced romantic love myself. I do wonder what it is like.

It is obviously something which makes a LOT of people happy, which I applaud.

[ksuheather]

I met Mr. ksuheather on 5 March and We were married the following 1 September. We both knew it was right and we've been together almost 6 years.

[helloemi]

Husband and I were married 13 months after our first date.

First date: 2/13/10

Engaged: 10/13/10

Married: 3/13/11

We would have eloped then and there, but we have a thing for 13s and it took a while for a 13th to fall on a weekend day that worked. "13" tattoos on our honeymoon Ok, where is the throwing up smiley :-)

But we also met randomly, talked for a week or so, went out for a "date" as friends and decided we wanted to be "an item" the next day. He didn't stake out my family first without knowing anything about me. It reminds me of the guy at the party that calls "dibs" on every girl there.

*Edited to show that we got tattoos of the # 13... not 13 seperate tattoos.

Oh yeah, and we totally lived in sin for 3 months

[Third]

Seven weeks into our relationship [online and on the phone as we had not met in person] my husband told me he loved me. I told him he was being silly because you can't love someone in 7 weeks. We met 'in person' 8 months later and agreed to marry the following day. I knew I loved him before I met him. I really totally did.

[Minerva]

I have a deep respect for girls who don’t throw their hearts around.

Slut-shaming fundie style? I didn't realize it was possible to make sexless dating sound so dirty.

[TXDuck]

My now husband said "I love you" after only two weeks. I sorta knew he was The One after our 4-5 dates. The wedding wasn't for another 3 years. So while all these "I knew he/she was the one after only 1 hour/week" are nice, (obviously I have one myself), they aren't really the same thing as the OP. Us here, well, I'm assuming all of us, did not wait for Daddy to pick out a suitor for us. We did not ask permission to get to know someone. And I sure as hell know we were unchaperoned for large, large segments of time. I went entire semesters without seeing any parental units. At the time, my parents seemed to think I was an adult living on my own and should be making my own decisions about these things. I'm guessing the rest us were in a similar position. Our "I knew right away" stories come from a vastly more emotionally honest place than these two poor, sheltered fundie kids. We "just knew" but we can trust our own judgement. I'm really not sure about these types of couples. (My point in all this is "He said the L word right away" is a red flag in this situation even though it would not be in a lot of other situations.)

That and I noticed a lot of these sorts of fundies confuse sexual frustration with love.

All that said, Browngrl's story is just too sweet.

[reds]

Here is the timeline of my courtship with Mr Browngrl:

3:00 pm - get on train to visit relatives

3:05pm - Mr Browngrl says "is this seat taken?" and sits down

8:00pm - decision made to get married/L word out there

...and here we are happier than ever 14 years later.

I wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened to me.

Love it.

My parents met in January and were married in June of the same year. Been together for 38 years.

Met my husband April 10 1999

Bought house July 25 1999 (my mother wanted more of a committment than just living in sin.)

Married Sept 2 2000

[anniebgood]

Mr B Good proposed over the phone to me, 2 weeks after we met. We met in March and got married in December, 9 months. We've been together nearly 27 years. Prior to him I had an off/on relationship with another guy for 13 years. He couldn't make up his mind and I got tired of waiting.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[Burris]

My husband and I were married a year to the day we first met.

Interestingly enough, we didn't really “connect†on the first date – or on the second date, for that matter. We simply continued going out because we shared a lot of interests and beliefs in common and were happy to explore them together.

I was 25, and had never so much as kissed a man before. When I moved in with him, it was a decision based on economics: He had just been laid off, and I was working so I paid half the rent. Our relationship began as an unwritten contract for mutual companionship and mutual financial aid.

By the time we tied the knot, we did love each other, though – there's no question about that. We had never exchanged cards or gifts or favors ot any of the other things dating people do, but we loved each other.

This “romantic love†- the soft words and the niceties and the warm fuzzy feelings - grew after we were married (and they continue 'til this day, eight years later).

Now, after a number of years, we don't really do anything apart. I encourage him to go out with friends and he encourages me, but we prefer each other's company – even if we're merely in the same room working on different projects.

Love at first sight never happened to us. It grew out of practicality – I suppose much in the same way as love in an arranged marriage might.

If both people are reasonable, it's possible for a fundie courtship to turn into real love over time, I think. Unfortunately, a lot of the people we read about don't seem all that reasonable.

[fluttershies]

My husband and I were married a year to the day we first met.

Interestingly enough, we didn't really “connect†on the first date – or on the second date, for that matter. We simply continued going out because we shared a lot of interests and beliefs in common and were happy to explore them together.

I was 25, and had never so much as kissed a man before. When I moved in with him, it was a decision based on economics: He had just been laid off, and I was working so I paid half the rent. Our relationship began as an unwritten contract for mutual companionship and mutual financial aid.

By the time we tied the knot, we did love each other, though – there's no question about that. We had never exchanged cards or gifts or favors ot any of the other things dating people do, but we loved each other.

This “romantic love†- the soft words and the niceties and the warm fuzzy feelings - grew after we were married (and they continue 'til this day, eight years later).

Now, after a number of years, we don't really do anything apart. I encourage him to go out with friends and he encourages me, but we prefer each other's company – even if we're merely in the same room working on different projects.

Love at first sight never happened to us. It grew out of practicality – I suppose much in the same way as love in an arranged marriage might.

If both people are reasonable, it's possible for a fundie courtship to turn into real love over time, I think. Unfortunately, a lot of the people we read about don't seem all that reasonable.

As much as I dislike Smuggar, I do think that he loves Anna (and she loves him back). My problem with fundie courtships is that they're built up as the ultimate in romance, when in reality it's much closer to an arranged marriage borne out of practicality. It builds up false expectations of what love looks like in practice.