I need an opinion about my church

[FJismyheadship]

While on the kneeling thread I had a thought. The church i am going to has been preching on getting involved. The trouble is they wont let me do what I want to do. They told me I was not ready. When i asked what that meant I was told to just be at church longer. I have barely missed a Sunday since i started going back in May. If i was sick or out of town i did not go. I participate in the classes. However I am not a hand raising kneeling worshipper. My friend who has been going since only October who acts totally gungho for Jesus and has a new thing laid upon his heart every week even though it usually fails is able to do what he wants to do. When i asked someone who i trust and that i feel is wise, she told me that if the people in charge dont think i am spirit filled and faithful then i wont be invited to do ANYTHING. I realize that i should move on to another church. This hurts me though because up until now i felt accepted and really liked it there. Who can say what kind of faith a person has? Anyway I wanted to run a test to see if I suddenly turned into the outgoing worshipper instead me the quiet one if they would decide to let me be apart of the group. Either way I would leave. But I want to experiment with this. I know your not supposed to be fake in your faith especially for the sale of mans approval. I just want to test the waters and see what happens. So what do you think? Would it be wrong to do this? Or do you think this would be a good experiment?

[She Who Laughs]

Churches already have too many people playing games instead of being genuine in their faith and actions. Doing an experiment or test is nothing more than playing games and being no different than they are. Stay genuine to who you are and what you believe and if you genuinely feel like they are treating you unfairly or differently than others, then move on and find a church that fits better. If there's one thing churches need less of, and that's people playing games, acting holy and not being true to their faith and beliefs.

[FJismyheadship]

Good point. I didnt think of that. I have been kinda upset about it but i guess walking away would be better than playing around.

[AmyP]

you know, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for praying in public so everyone could see them. How "spirit filled" you are is between you and God, and anyone who thinks they can judge this based on your outward behavior is crazy. Find a different church.

[No KoolAid]

I wanted to run a test to see if I suddenly turned into the outgoing worshipper instead me the quiet one if they would decide to let me be apart of the group. Either way I would leave. But I want to experiment with this. I know your not supposed to be fake in your faith especially for the sale of mans approval. I just want to test the waters and see what happens. So what do you think? Would it be wrong to do this? Or do you think this would be a good experiment?

Why waste your time? They've proven themselves to be who they are. I'd quit right now and not look back or give them a second thought!

[Guest Anonymous]

What is it that they won't let you do, and what sort of things do they let your friend do?

Do you really think you could convincingly fake the handclappy, kneeling worship stuff, if it is not something you are naturally inclined to do? My gut feeling is that you'd look inauthentic and would probably guess what you are up to, especially as you have already identified yourself to the leadership by asking and being turned down to do things.

[Sola]

So they want you to NOT be yourself so that you can be more involved?

Walk away. If they cannot accept that you are a reserved person, then find a church who will.

[FJismyheadship]

They wont let me be in the choir but my friend is allowed to do all sorts me book stuff with filming the sermons. They are both headed by the same guy. The worship pastor is also the multimedia pastor. The thing is though is at the very beginning they told me join the church you can be in the choir. But i warmt ready. When my friend decided to join i thought i would too and the guy in charge said if we attended the classes we could start singing the sunday we started. I still warmt ready and told the head pastor so before the class started. He said that was very nature of me to know i warmt ready. My friend started helping with the multimedia. A few months later i decided i WAS ready and took the classes. Then it turned into 'let me talk to the rest me the staff' to 'we dont think you are ready' and when i asked what i had to do to be ready i was told 'you just need to be here longer' .

[Buzzard]

If they cant appreciate you for who you are then youre too good for them. No one should have to audition to be a part of a church community, if they treat it like the "in" circle or part of a club then fuck them. Go somewhere you are appreciated.

[Guest Anonymous]

I wonder if they see choir as more of a 'leading worship' role and if you have repeatedly said you are 'not ready' to join the church, they may see this s a reflection on your relationship with God? Whereas filming/multimedia is a skilled role but not a 'leading' or 'being an example' kind of role. That's the sort of thinking that used to go on in the circles I moved in when I was a Christian, anyway.

Whatever, screw them, they sound like a bunch of controlling fuckwits. I can understand the temptation to play games with them, but the bottom line is that they would be just more likely to close ranks and exclude you, and that is time wasted that you can never have back....

[tropaka]

I'm trying not to be offensive, but this happened to a friend of mine and it really had to do with her voice...they thought they were doing her a favour by telling her she wasn't ready when really her vocal skills weren't so great (it was a small choir, so I guess they figured it would be noticed?) Did you have to sing/audition in any way, or were the classes musical? If this isn't it, I'd ask point blank why and then be straight about leaving the church.

[TXDuck]

Not to also be harsh, but it's one of two things. Either you are never going to be accepted, which in case find a new church. Or your voice is...unique. In which case, you need a choir large enough so you can "blend in". In which case, find a new church. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Admittedly, I could never be comfortable with a "arm waving" church. So my opinion could be skewed.

[snarkbillie]

I've been to a lot of churches that would not let non-members be in ministry or join the choir or teach Sunday school.

[itsnikki05]

My honest opinion? I think you need to find a church that better suits you. I had to change churches recently. I DID like the people, but felt... I don't know. I did not feel like part of a family there. That is something that is SO important to be. We were brought right in from the moment we set foot in our current church. It's half an hour away vs right down the street of my former church... but I'm ok with that.

I don't know. I couldn't fake anything. And I'm "quiet" in my worship also. I've been to churches where it seemed you had to shout amen and raise your hand and all that... I'm just... no. That's not for me. I'm fine with anyone else doing it if that's what they feel led to do. But I... just can't. LOL! (Doesn't help that I'm VERY shy! LOL!!)

[Jezebel]

They have their idea of what someone who is "spirit filled" should act like. You don't fit that idea, and frankly, it's not worth wasting your time trying to change their minds. If you do fool them, and they let you into the choir, you'll have to keep fooling them in order to stay. And if you've already decided to leave, using your Sundays to find another church would be much more satisfying and productive in the long run.

I agree with everyone who has recommending just leaving, without any "experiments." Go, and don't look back; there's nothing to be gained there.

And good luck finding a new church; I'm sure there's one out there that will be a much better fit, where you will be fully welcomed.

[Elle]

You're good enough to give your money, not good enough to be a full member allowed to get involved. It would be a waste of your time to stay and experiment. There shouldn't be any measure of who can be in the choir by who's "ready" as judged by other church people.

When I was still going to my private school, which, despite being Christian, had women in leadership positions alongside men, taught us that our relationships with god was between us individually and god, and wearing a large cross necklace was an outward show to the world. If your church is going to praise these outward shows and ignore personal relationships, then it's a false church. All that should be needed to get involved is a desire to do so.

[clibbyjo]

I am sorry to say this, it IS your voice. They are trying to be nice. Everyone is trying to be nice and noone wants to hurt your feelings. I don't want to either, but many of us watched your you tube video in the other thread and you need voice lessons. I am not saying you flat out suck, but if you are serious, you need to start voices lessons now and take them seriously before anyone in the singing business(including choir directors) will give you a chance. I know you wanted to try out for the x-factor and you wanted us all to hear you singing so you posted your video. I hope you take this advice as it is meant to help you become the best singer you can. I am sorry I took the "Simon" role here, but someone had to do it.

[luckylibrarian]

I hate to say it, but yeah, if they were telling you in the beginning that you could join the choir, but then backed off of that later when you went through the classes, then it sounds like they are politely trying to tell you that your voice doesn't fit in with the group. Voice lessons may help you develop your voice further, and then you could reapproach them or find a choir that better suits you.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think we can all only offer personal opinions here, but I don't think that FMJ's voice (from the "Maxwell Wonderland" vid?) would get her excluded from any churches I have been to. In fact I have never heard of a church choir being described as part of the 'music business'. I'm not 'trying to be nice' here; I just don't get why she would be excluded from a community choir, where all-comers are usually found a place.

I can more easily imagine it would be to do with needing to be more visibly 'spirit-filled'.

[Lady]

I think you should leave. They are clearly playing games, go elsewhere. My current church is small and because of that they never stop people from volunteering. Maybe look for a smaller church.

May I ask, what branch of Christianity are you looking for?

[pixydust]

I don't think that there is anything that you can do to make them accept you. It sounds like they are being very snooty and exclusive, and it's prob time to take your ball and go home. Look for a church that will welcome you and let you find yourself.

[Elle]

Unless a choir is trying to sell CDs, maybe to help fund church activities, then what does someone's voice matter? I have a friend who sounds like a duck being strangled when she sings (though I could never tell her) who is on a church choir because of her enthusiasm, not for her (lack of) talent or her "filled with spiritness", but because she has the enthusiasm and it's clear she has fun, and the singers having fun encourages others to sing along, even if they do't have great voices. Her church hold to the whole "the bible says make a joyful noise, it says nothing about the noise having to be beautiful to our ears" thing.

If a church isn't selling CDs, and they're going to exclude someone who has the enthusiasm, then screw them. If they want tons of outwardly shows of being "filled with the spirit", then screw them. Unless half the church wants to be in the choir and it would be too many people to have standing behind the pulpit or are selling the CDs, then there's no good reason to deny someone.

I haven't seen the video yet, but FMJ could sound like my friend and what I said wouldn't change.

[FJismyheadship]

No there never was an audition. One me the women that is in the choir says that there are several who cant carry a tune in a bucket but they come in anyway. The pastors wife is the lead singer and she pretty much covers everyone else up anyway lol. I am going to try a new church Sunday. Thanks for everything guys.

[godlytomatosoup]

Have you tried asking explicitly? Like "I would really like to join the choir. You've told me that I'm not ready and I have to be at church longer. My question is, what needs to change for me to be ready, and how will we both know when that happens?"

If they can't give you a concrete answer to that, something achiveable within a time frame you can live with, maybe they don't really want you to join. I'll admit, my initial reaction to your post was "church is a relationship, and if this were someone she was dating, I'd be saying 'he's just not that into you,'" but while that might be the answer, the best way to know is still to ask them.

[Lady]

I am in the bell choir at church and I stink. I regularly ring the wrong bell, ring early or late, and lose my spot. But the attitude seems to be, "Oh well. She's here, she's willing, and she's trying."