Modest =/= Frumpy

[Sola]

1. I react to karat gold (10 and 14, never tried 18) and sterling silver. The reaction on surface skin is kind of unfortunate (scaliness and eventual infection) and last time I tried putting earrings in, my lobes were three times normal size and oozing pus in 5 minutes. "White" gold I can wear but if I don't maintain it (ie, keep up with the plating), the same thing will happen eventually. Fine silver doesn't cause a reaction. Don't know about platinum, it's out of my price range, but palladium doesn't cause any reaction. I don't have a nickel allergy, oddly, so stainless steel "body jewelry" works out fine, unless it's contaminated with copper.

I do have a nickel allergy and end up just the same as you. I have found with purer, more expensive golds that I am OK. Hubby bought me a bracelet the other year from an Asian jeweller; Asian gold is always the purest and you can't find anything from such a store which isn't 22 carat. That was the first time I have ever been able to wear any jewellery for longer than a couple of hours.

Can I pick your brain (euuw, not literally of course)?

My daughter wants her ears pierced. However, like me she has a lot of allergies. So far she isn't allergic to nickel but I don't want to trigger an allergy either as standard ear piercing earrings are nickel with gold plate. Any ideas on what the best metal to have her ears pierced with would be? I've thought about titanium as a piercer in town will use titanium earrings if you want.

[Guest Anonymous]

This post is inspired by the headcovering topic. Why don't certain fundies (like the Duggars) realize that you don't have to dress like Little House on the Prairie to be modest? There are girls at my school who dress modestly for religious reasons. They look stylish without showing much skin at all.

I can't speak for fundies, but personally I do dress conservatively & modestly but not dumpy or frumpy, but that is my choice. It has nothing to do with religion. For me it's a body image issue thing. I have nothing against what other people wear, unless they are running around butt naked in public.

Oh, and this reminds me of something that happened to me in a grocery store a couple of years ago and my young nephew came along with me. I was in dairy aisle getting some milk and yogurt. In front of me was this heavy set woman like me. She had on a denim skirt with a slit up to to her butt crack. Then she bends over. She had no panties on and you could see her lady parts bare and fully exposed. I tried to cover my nephew's eyes, but it was too late. I wasn't the only one who noticed it either. There were a lot of WTF comments. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people dressing sexy or showing a little skin. But this was....well...one of those OMFG WTH moments. And, me trying to explain to my young nephew what is just saw was rather awkward too. :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

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[MamaJunebug]

Modesty for them isn't just about not showing "unmentionables", it's about not "causing a brother to stumble". If you dress fashionably and in form-fitting clothing, they think it's immodest and will cause men to oogle.

I think men need to ogle now and then. Without a little visual stimulation, they tend to become grouchy and sedentary. Ok, I'm talking about My The Spousal Unit as "men" but there you go.

Requiring women to dress like dowds controls not only the women but the men. It keeps men in a state of low frustration and ennui, which makes them more receptive to shouted pronouncements about how Things Will Be Better If They Just Follow (And $upport) Mister Gothard (Or Cultist Du Jour).

[Spider Burps]

lawfulevil, I dress similarly to you (except I don't wear shorts under my skirts, just a slip and I wear two t-shirts with a cardigan instead of a blouse) and I keep people from thinking I'm a fundie with my lip rings. Haha! Also, I'm allergic to most metals (yellow gold included, surgical stainless excluded), but for me platinum doesn't cause any itchiness or swelling. I figured you'd like to know, since you said you'd never tried it. :)

[Shirley MacLaine]

I've never understood the 'modest clothes are so hard to find' thing? Like, fundies are always somehow going into these stores (in their imaginations, I suppose) where everything is clubwear and there's not a knee-length or longer skirt in sight. Where are these places? I could find something suitably modest in nearly every major, popular chain store. Or at least something that would be appropriately fundie-modest with the addition of tights and a cardigan or something.

[alaeangelorum]

I've never understood the 'modest clothes are so hard to find' thing? Like, fundies are always somehow going into these stores (in their imaginations, I suppose) where everything is clubwear and there's not a knee-length or longer skirt in sight. Where are these places? I could find something suitably modest in nearly every major, popular chain store. Or at least something that would be appropriately fundie-modest with the addition of tights and a cardigan or something.

All the Muslim girls I know manage to dress modestly using high street clothing. Usually this involves layers, so perhaps if you live somewhere hot in the US it is a bit harder. Also the fundies make things difficult for themselves by having to wear skirts all the time.

[fluttershies]

All the Muslim girls I know manage to dress modestly using high street clothing. Usually this involves layers, so perhaps if you live somewhere hot in the US it is a bit harder. Also the fundies make things difficult for themselves by having to wear skirts all the time.

Even then, skirts are really not that hard to find - and easy for a dressmaker to make if you're desperate.

[ADoyle90815]

Even then, skirts are really not that hard to find - and easy for a dressmaker to make if you're desperate.

Exactly, I see plenty of skirts that are knee length and longer at most stores.

[Shirley MacLaine]

Yeah, even the most fast-fashiony teen-centric stores have them.

Like F21:

http://www.forever21.com/Product/Produc ... VariantID=

http://www.forever21.com/Product/Produc ... VariantID=

http://www.forever21.com/Product/Produc ... VariantID=

[reds]

I think i dress modestly but no body notices here.

No shorts or short skirts. T-shirt is usually baggy and i show shoulders and neck but never cleavage or stomach.

[Spider Burps]

Shirley, thanks for those links; I absolutely LOVE that first skirt and may just have to go buy it ;) I'm skirts-only, so I'm always on the hunt! That second skirt, however, isn't modest to me. It's lightweight and unlined, so you can see your legs in detail even with a slip. No good for me, but way cute!

[Avalondaughter]

I was just thinking about how immodest does not always mean sexy or attractive either.

When I'm out riding my horses on a hot summer day, I'll be wearing, over my dirty, sweaty, skintight breeches, the barest tank top that will cover my sports bra. It's usually the oldest saggiest one in my drawer. It's not modest by any means, but when I'm dressed to ride when it's 90 degrees out, I doubt any men will stumble upon the sight of me.

But I'm not modest by any fundie standard. I like skirts about the knee, v-necks, and slim-fitting pants. When I want to dress to the nines, I show cleavage without apology. If you got it, flaunt it. My husband appreciates it and other men are not my problem.

[clarinetpower]

1. I react to karat gold (10 and 14, never tried 18) and sterling silver. The reaction on surface skin is kind of unfortunate (scaliness and eventual infection) and last time I tried putting earrings in, my lobes were three times normal size and oozing pus in 5 minutes. "White" gold I can wear but if I don't maintain it (ie, keep up with the plating), the same thing will happen eventually. Fine silver doesn't cause a reaction. Don't know about platinum, it's out of my price range, but palladium doesn't cause any reaction. I don't have a nickel allergy, oddly, so stainless steel "body jewelry" works out fine, unless it's contaminated with copper.

It's a shame, I developed the allergy as an adult, so I have quite a bit of silver jewelry I made that I can't wear anymore.

The reaction is obvious and severe enough my gyno said she didn't have any IUDs that'd work for me, since Mirena gave me migraines. I'm on Implanon instead.

I can handle money, it takes prolonged exposure on surface skin (just not in piercings).

As for unusual immune system reactions- I'm allergic to things almost nobody else has to worry about (cinnamon) and completely immune to common allergens (poison ivy is an allergic reaction, not that I roll around in it on purpose). Novocaine barely works on me (my dentist hates me), Sudafed might as well be meth, dipenhydramine simply doesn't work, and every belladonna alkaloid I've ever been exposed to has caused an.... unusual reaction. The only normal things I'm allergic to are crayfish and bermuda grass.

WOW.

We have a lot of the same issues. I can wear platinum, sterling, and stainless. No gold, no nickel. IDK about copper. Gold=itchy, scaly, oozing skin within 5-10 minutes, plus swelling. We were lucky to get our wedding rings redone in platinum 2 weeks before the price quintupled, years ago. (Phew!)

I am allergic to CINNAMON!!! Cinnamic aldehyde, specifically. Also a bunch of other organic aldehydes, including tea rose and patchouli and various others.

Novocaine barely works on me, either, and the epinephrine in the shot makes my heart race so they have to use something else. Last time I had a filling, it took them 90 minutes to get me numb enough (and I could still feel it, but it wasn't so bad I jumped out of my chair.)

I am also not allergic to poison ivy, though I am allergic to so many things I always make the nurses say, "whoa!" when they open my chart.

Are we twins??? :lol:

/tangent

[Spider Burps]

WOW.

We have a lot of the same issues. I can wear platinum, sterling, and stainless. No gold, no nickel. IDK about copper. Gold=itchy, scaly, oozing skin within 5-10 minutes, plus swelling. We were lucky to get our wedding rings redone in platinum 2 weeks before the price quintupled, years ago. (Phew!)

I am allergic to CINNAMON!!! Cinnamic aldehyde, specifically. Also a bunch of other organic aldehydes, including tea rose and patchouli and various others.

Novocaine barely works on me, either, and the epinephrine in the shot makes my heart race so they have to use something else. Last time I had a filling, it took them 90 minutes to get me numb enough (and I could still feel it, but it wasn't so bad I jumped out of my chair.)

I am also not allergic to poison ivy, though I am allergic to so many things I always make the nurses say, "whoa!" when they open my chart.

Are we twins??? :lol:

/tangent

OMG, someone else who's unable to use epipens?! *high five* I'm mega allergic to bees (and kind of allergic to peanuts and several other things), so if I ever get stung I have to go to the hospital to get it dealt with before I, you know, die. Whenever I try to tell anyone that, they call me a liar. :roll: I'm also highly insensitive to lidocaine (which is what dentists use, and also happens to be in the anesthetic patches/creams they offer for chronic pain). I'm in the "white metals only" club, too, so we must all be triplets or something :P Don't tell me either of you have seizures and chronic pain, too, or we're going to have to go into the doctor together to demand a new diagnosis.

[contrary]

that first f21 skirt is so cute! i want it.

[Jezebel]

Even then, skirts are really not that hard to find - and easy for a dressmaker to make if you're desperate.

I've picked up so many ideas for combining cute-but- skimpy clothes into attractive, non-revealing outfits simply by sitting across from young Muslim women on the bus. :lol: I now look at dresses as tunics or layering pieces, which has really expanded my options.

I have no trouble finding skirts that hit well below the knee. Ankle-length is a little more difficult because I'm tall and long-legged and 42-43" skirts that are not skeevy polyester are rare birds, but you're right that skirts are easy to sew, and don't have the fussy fitting issues that pants do. Actually, a plain gathered skirt with an elastic waistband is one of the easiest things to sew.

Skirts are also easy to add on to. I bought a mini-skirt at Goodwill awhile back because I loved the fabric and thought I'd recycle It into a bag or pillow, but when I got home and tried it on it fit me perfectly. I tried wearing it with leggings, but it was just too short for comfort. It's now the yoke of a long, tiered skirt. I've also added length to skirts with godets (tricky), ruffled tiers (easy), and simple extensions to straight skirts in contrasting or coordinating fabrics (easy).

But even if I didn't sew, I'd still be able to find all but the longest skirts without much trouble (and it would be even less trouble if I didn't insist on natural fibers). Shopping online has made things so much easier, and if I wait for sales I can get amazing deals.

There is plenty of "modest" clothing on the market. Really, there is. Sure, you have to wade through a lot of unsuitable clothing to find it, but it's there. Certain stores and brands will always have a better selection, and knowing which ones are good saves a lot of time and frustration. So when I see a fundie moaning about how there are no modest clothes available, I just roll my eyes--as I do whenever they whine about imaginary "persecution."

[Olive Plant]

Epinephrine from Novocaine makes my heart race (doesn't it do that to everyone?) although the last time I got shot up with it it was the same thing: hard to numb me, and even after multiple injections I could still more or less feel it.

On the note of modesty and frumpiness: This post caught my eye because it is not about frumpy modesty, but it's still extremely legalistic (to use her own phrasing) in spite of the cute dresses: imustnotthinkbadthoughts.wordpress.com/2011/10/16/church-and-failed-attempts-at-family-pictures

Edited to break link

[lawfulevil]

OMG, someone else who's unable to use epipens?! *high five* I'm mega allergic to bees (and kind of allergic to peanuts and several other things), so if I ever get stung I have to go to the hospital to get it dealt with before I, you know, die. Whenever I try to tell anyone that, they call me a liar. :roll: I'm also highly insensitive to lidocaine (which is what dentists use, and also happens to be in the anesthetic patches/creams they offer for chronic pain). I'm in the "white metals only" club, too, so we must all be triplets or something :P Don't tell me either of you have seizures and chronic pain, too, or we're going to have to go into the doctor together to demand a new diagnosis.

I have had seizures though only so far as a bad reaction to medication withdrawal (damn you, Wellbutrin). No bee allergy, no peanut allergy, though macadamia nuts make my throat/tongue swell and itch. It's possible to be allergic to Benadryl so anyone doubting you can't use epipens is an idiot.

I do have chronic pain (joints, mostly) but it's not usually severe, just annoying.... but I also have ludicrously high natural pain tolerance from an unfortunate childhood. I apparently have Chronic Fatigue but I'm still insisting they just have no idea what's wrong, there must be SOMETHING.

My ancestors were kinda slutty (it's a family trait*!) so maybe we're all related! Does autism run in your families?

*Not implying YOU'RE slutty, but I certainly went through that phase as a younger LawfulEvil, and having inspected the family tree...

ETA: Among other anesthesia that doesn't work on me, twilight sleep made me feel drunk but I remember everything and it didn't do much for pain. I shoulda just downed a couple rum and cokes, much cheaper.

[Spider Burps]

I have had seizures though only so far as a bad reaction to medication withdrawal (damn you, Wellbutrin). No bee allergy, no peanut allergy, though macadamia nuts make my throat/tongue swell and itch. It's possible to be allergic to Benadryl so anyone doubting you can't use epipens is an idiot.

I do have chronic pain (joints, mostly) but it's not usually severe, just annoying.... but I also have ludicrously high natural pain tolerance from an unfortunate childhood. I apparently have Chronic Fatigue but I'm still insisting they just have no idea what's wrong, there must be SOMETHING.

My ancestors were kinda slutty (it's a family trait*!) so maybe we're all related! Does autism run in your families?

*Not implying YOU'RE slutty, but I certainly went through that phase as a younger LawfulEvil, and having inspected the family tree...

ETA: Among other anesthesia that doesn't work on me, twilight sleep made me feel drunk but I remember everything and it didn't do much for pain. I shoulda just downed a couple rum and cokes, much cheaper.

That's a bunch of craziness; It sounds like we're practically sisters! My chronic pain is mostly joint pain (though I do have some insane back pain too), and I also have a super high pain tolerance from a similar-sounding childhood. No chronic fatigue, but I have this thing where I sleep but don't feel like I've slept (but hasn't been DXed as CFS). We do have a history of autism (as well as lots of crazy: bipolar, schizophrenia, drug/alcohol addictions, etc.) in my family. As for the sluttiness, well, let's just say that I'm fairly certain that my little brother is only my half brother. :lol:

[2xx1xy1JD]

There are really several different notions of "modesty".

Some groups define it strictly in terms of coverage. I certainly know plenty of Modern Orthodox or Chabad women that will dress in stiletto heels, sheer stockings, knee-length pencil skirts, 3/4 sleeve lycra shell and a cute vest or top over it, and top it all off with a great-looking long, sexy wig. Technically, they've covered what they need to cover, and argue that there is nothing saying that they have to be ugly. I basically dress like this, but skip the stilettos and wear a hat instead of a wig. It's suitable for work, and miraculously makes me look 10 lbs lighter.

Is modest clothing for this group hard to find? Not if you have a supplier of modest basics, such as the lycra 3/4 sleeve shells, sleeveless shells and basic just-past-the-kneees pencil skirts. Once I have my basic shells and black skirts, I can buy almost anything to wear over them. Before I discovered these layering items, however, I got stuck with a lot of frumpy pieces, because regular stores carry items that are bulkier or meant for post-menopausal women.

Some other groups look at the "coverage only" group, and think they all dress slutty. On the Orthodox Jewish board, this is where you start to see people pulling rules out of their tuchus and ranting and raving. They will insist that wearing anything "trendy" is evil - so if long skirts are in fashion for a season, they are suddenly deemed forbidden even after the trend is over, even though it's obvious that everyone's great-grandmother must have worn long skirts. Some will also say that opaque black tights are evil for the same reason. From what I have heard from an online Mennonite buddy, the Mennonites and Quakers have a similar anti-fashion, plain-only philosophy. I've also seen recent pronouncements against denim in some ultra-Orthodox Jewish circles, even though it is practical and modest, because it is considered too casual.

You also have different groups having different views on what constitutes "too tight". On one extreme, I remember Sunnichick mentioning that Muslim clothing should be covered by an additional loose coat (jilbab) without a belt, so that the figure isn't visible at all. I know some stricter ultra-Orthodox Jews won't allow pencil skirts or lycra shells, but insist on A-line or pleated skirts and looser shirts. The coverage-only group will wear anything that isn't obscenely tight.

Example of my favorite layering shell:

http://www.doubleheaderusa.com/product. ... mid=krontq

One of my favorite knee-length skirts:

http://www.couturecandy.com/hard-tail/s ... oduct.html

And, to celebrate the fact that it's a gorgeous day and already 80 degrees, the awesome work-appropriate sandals that I'm wearing today:

http://shopping.yahoo.com/860536845-loo ... -44031b33/