How wealthy are the fundie royalty?

[terranova]

I see a lot of blogs where the families live in huge houses with beautiful kitchens and lounges, or on compounds where older married children live nearby. Even the Maxwells have a really nice modern house.

Apart from the Duggars, who have whored themselves out to get rich, how to the fundie royalty make their moolah? How can they afford, on one income, these mansions?

(I realise there are many many more fundies who live in trailers and are on or below the breadline.)

[Witsec5]

Okay I'll take a stab at this one and will go out on a limb with my humble opinion. I don't think fundie royalty are all that wealthy. Many of them own beautiful homes but they are in areas where land is cheap. The older generation might have money but because their self-employment and entrepreneurial skills worked well for them in an up economy but their money cannot possibly support the whole compound for generations to come. This is a relatively new movement and it cannot be sustained what with their views on education and employment.

Also, I think that the royalty puts forth a successful image as a selling point--just like Herbalife presenters used to show pictures of fancy cars and beautiful families enjoying vacations on the Riviera to con people into joining up. Just my opinion.

[Stickers]

They might have nice things, but I don't think they're rolling in the dough. It's easier to build a nice house when labor is free (Church help).

[Witsec7]

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3814&hilit=Fundy+Royalty

This covers a bit of ground on the subject.

[Anise]

They write books and hold seminars.

[terranova]

They write books and hold seminars.

And eat awful, cheaparse food!

[terranova]

Okay I'll take a stab at this one and will go out on a limb with my humble opinion. I don't think fundie royalty are all that wealthy. Many of them own beautiful homes but they are in areas where land is cheap. The older generation might have money but because their self-employment and entrepreneurial skills worked well for them in an up economy but their money cannot possibly support the whole compound for generations to come. This is a relatively new movement and it cannot be sustained what with their views on education and employment.

Also, I think that the royalty puts forth a successful image as a selling point--just like Herbalife presenters used to show pictures of fancy cars and beautiful families enjoying vacations on the Riviera to con people into joining up. Just my opinion.

Totally agreed with this. It's exactly like a multi level marketing scam, only the people at the very top are making money off it, but they claim anyone can have the goodlife if they just try hard enough. :roll:

[BlondeAgent007]

you can build a house relatively cheaply that is large and looks nice, but isn't really all that "expensive" when you get down to it. A large house can be a good indicator, but usually its the little add ons that show real wealth. Growing up, I had lots of friends whose houses were newer and bigger than mine, but didn't have the niceties my parents house did - every room had been remodeled, an inground pool in the backyard, a real fireplace, hardwood floors and ceramic tiling on the floors, real wood heavy kitchen cabinets... and also our technology was always current and up to date.

Fundies tend not to spend as much on the little things that we all "have" to have... cable, internet, cell phones/extracurriculars, sports, even parent date nights all cost money, and I rarely hear of fundies that have these things.

Most teenagers spend tons of money on clothes. The duggar kids may be wearing name brands now, but none of the terribly expensive brands. I don't find aeropostale or old navy to be too much a bang to the wallet compared to abercrombie and fitch or express. To be honest, I don't think any high end brands would carry much variety in the type of modesty that would be required to make those clothes acceptable to purchase.

oh, I also don't read a lot about pets that aren't functional for some other purpose. lots of extra income goes to pets for a lot of people.

[BlondeAgent007]

oh, just thought about this -- fundie parents don't expect their kids to go to college, so they're not even trying to save for it. I bet the Maxwells would be living in a cardboard box if they were spending a decent amount for each child's education.

[Third]

The few I know - not royality but they have a nice house but their kids have few if any toys. Apparently children don't need toys and books - one lady I know claims her children can play with sticks and have fun with lots of siblings. My kids are bored from lack of siblings so they need more books\toys etc

They don't have money for things like hospital births and health insurance. Homebirths even those who pay a midwife [here I'm told it's illegal so they pretend they didn't make it to the hospital in time] it's a lot cheaper to have a baby at home and not do things like well checks, vaccines etc

It comes out as we decided it was best for our growing family if I home birthed I had 7 kids for the cost of your one hospital birth!

[Sola]

Dougie is wealthy. Though his wealth will come from his father's connections. Not so sure about the rest (not including the Duggars here). They probably come across as financially stable because they are frugal plus they project that air of financial stability. However I suspect they are one disaster away from the poorhouse. Look at Kelly at Generation Cedar; that tornado could have screwed them up forever, but her status in fundiedom enabled her to get her house rebuilt for virtually nothing.

[valsa]

I believe I saw somewhere that Nancy Campbell's little fundie empire makes over a million dollars a year. Yet her daughterv and grandchildren lives in a mold-filled, plumbingless, heatless half-house.

[FlorenceHamilton]

I can add a few things. A good number of these people have home "ministries". As such, they do not pay taxes on much of their land and their homes. The part that is the ministry is tax exemmpt. Then there are the home businesses that the wives conduct. These are exempt as well. Connection to communication devices would also be tax exempt because the internet and el phones/land lines/printers/fax machines would all be tax exempt. I would bet that these people pay almost no taxes at all because so many of their supplies and furnishings are used for their minstries or businesses. In the end, most of the ministries or/and businesses are probably a net loss.

Living in a rural area is far, far less expensive than living in an area that is more developed. Often, there is family land that is bequeathed, so the only cost of a house is the building expense. There is less regulation on building and codes are lax. People can build a house with a little help from their friends without much concern about meeting coding requirements.

It is not strange at all for folks to be able to live in a big box in rural places. There is no value to saving for the future. (God will provide). These people know god. They spend whatever money comes their way when it comes. When god does not send them much money, they simply suck it up and suffer.

I also agree that the royalty have more money and it is like a pyramid scheme,

[MamaJunebug]

The certainly-wealthy royalty, other than Dougie, who come to mind are:

Old Mr. Niednagel, "The Brain Doctor" who helps professional sports teams sign the most promising athletes

Mr. Zes, the landlord and hotelier in eastern Missouri

A stealth royal who's at the peak of an MLM business

Florence Hamilton, can you expand on how home-based businesses are tax-exempt? Unless the owners and their husbands simply don't report income....is that what you're going for? I have several friends who have shops or businesses and pay taxes on their profits, but then, they're honest types! ;) -- and non-dominionistic, to boot!

[jlbturtle]

Please know what you are talking about before you start talking taxes.

Some tax exempt organizations do pay property taxes. It varies from entity to entity. Second, any home based buisnesses unrelated to the Organization's mission WOULD be subject to income tax. Third, when an Organization uses business assets for personal use at the very least the IRS makes the Organization prorate their business versus personal use.

[justlurking]

Dougie is wealthy. Though his wealth will come from his father's connections. Not so sure about the rest (not including the Duggars here). They probably come across as financially stable because they are frugal plus they project that air of financial stability. However I suspect they are one disaster away from the poorhouse. Look at Kelly at Generation Cedar; that tornado could have screwed them up forever, but her status in fundiedom enabled her to get her house rebuilt for virtually nothing.

I truly don't think Dougie is all that wealthy...well-to-do perhaps, and certainly in a better financial situation then most of the people he shills to, but wealthy? No.

I forget who first quoted the phrase that "wealthy is when you don't have to work for your money, you make your money work for you"--Dougie certainly works for his money, which is why he devotes so much time and energy to selling people the image of a perfect family life through novelty toys and cosplay.

We have also read information on both the old and current forum (as well as BrainSample's blog) that Vision Forum and many of Dougie's other assets are financed by Jim Leninger:

http://freejinger.yuku.com/reply/103603 ... ply-103603

http://freejinger.yuku.com/reply/130589 ... ply-130589

http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2008 ... ssage.html

A man who is independently wealthy (as Jim Leninger is presumably) would not need someone else to bankroll the trips they go on or the house they live in (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=961).

[FlorenceHamilton]

Yes, home based businesses pay taxes on their profits. The can however, exempt part of their home casts from taxes because they are the cost of doing business. So part of their rent/mortgage/electric/water bills are tax exempt. If their business uses the internet, then their internet service can be written off. Same is true for the telephone, paper, pencils, printer ink, furniture in any space in the home that is used primarily for business, part of their auto expenses, cleaning products, toiletries. etc.

The way the percentage that is tax free is calculated is rather nebulous. Generally, the percentage of the house that is used for the business is used as a rough estimate. So if you have a 1300 square foot house and use 25% while conducting business, then you write off 25% of all of these expenses. If your business innvolves cooking, you get to write off your whole kitchen, If your business is making clothing, then you write off the room where you sew, your sewing equipment and fabric and your laundrey area. (And so not forget that making "samples" for your family is also a business expense because it may be used for advertising or reasearch and development of your product.) Auto expense can be written off in its entirety if the vehicle is used for business more than 50% of the time.

Most of these home businesses end up as a net loss. So they have no profits to pay taxes on, but they still have a whole lot of really cool stuff that the business paid for, much of which is tax exempt. If they do make a profit, then they file a K-1 and pay taxes at the corporate rate.

[YPestis]

The Maxwells built their house. Steve has four sons that are handy with the house. He saves so much on labor when he has so many able bodied people working for free.

[Elle]

Homebirths even those who pay a midwife [here I'm told it's illegal so they pretend they didn't make it to the hospital in time] it's a lot cheaper to have a baby at home and not do things like well checks, vaccines etc

Technically homebirths aren't illegal anywhere, but midwifery is banned in some states. The reason homebirthing isn't illegal is because they couldn't prosecute someone for not getting to a hospital in time. However the hope is that midwifery being illegal in some states will result in more people going to hospitals. Unfortunately all this does is result in women using midwives who haven't actually had any real training, which is dangerous. And, if something goes wrong, the people who hired the illegal midwife are sometimes afraid to say anything out of fear they'll get in trouble for hiring someone illegally. Midwifery just plain needs to be legalized in all states with a midwifery panel (not made up of politicians) to set the minimum standards for training.

I'm a homebirth advocate, and honestly, I'd rather have an unassisted birth than to have a midwife present whose training is questionable and there's no way to verify she's had any at all.

[Elle]

I believe I saw somewhere that Nancy Campbell's little fundie empire makes over a million dollars a year. Yet her daughterv and grandchildren lives in a mold-filled, plumbingless, heatless half-house.

Worse, she thinks it's "hilarious."

[Elle]

Florence is right. I've mentioned an ex of mine who owned a car lot. I learned from him how small businesses that are savvy enough can write off pretty much everything by justifying most things as business expenses.

Although for certain home office deductions, you either must use the area exclusively for business, or can write off the percentage you use it for business. The IRS is cracking down on the home office deductions and it's apparently a red flag increasing the chance of an audit.