Obamacare more expensive

[freejoytoo]

Capitlism screws you over if you a) don't have money and b) allows a lot more room for corruption

[Artemis]

Personally, I think he should try for a Darwin award.

[emmiedahl]

Well, Obama signed that bill, Behind closed doors, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT!

I love the way you address the last sentence of a long post with many points. :roll: Yeah, Obama signed it because the chances of getting a cost-effective plan was nil thanks to the Republicans. He owns that, but so does everyone else in the federal government. He is not nearly liberal enough and too willing to compromise with the idiots on the right side of the aisle.

[jericho]

I love the way you address the last sentence of a long post with many points. :roll: Yeah, Obama signed it because the chances of getting a cost-effective plan was nil thanks to the Republicans. He owns that, but so does everyone else in the federal government. He is not nearly liberal enough and too willing to compromise with the idiots on the right side of the aisle.

He had 2 years of a Democratic majority in congress. You can't blame the republicans for everything.

[Witsec7]

Personally, I think he should try for a Darwin award.

He's won that one already, the guy has already passed on his gene pool.

[Elle]

There's a difference between not buying insurance because you just plain don't think you'll ever need it, and not buying it because you can't afford it. My concern with Obamacare is that it will force families who already don't have money left over to cough up money that may require them to cut back on a meal or two a day and juggle utility bills. The income levels for subsidies don't take into consideration that some areas of this country are a lot more expensive to live in, and that not everyone living in those areas can afford to save up and move somewhere cheaper.

I think a universal system paid for using taxes would cost a hell of a lot less by enabling people to see doctors when something is going wrong instead of editing until they're passed the point of no return and then the system will be paying anyway for a lot more in expensive treatment that will not save someone's life.

[emmiedahl]

He had 2 years of a Democratic majority in congress. You can't blame the republicans for everything.

I specifically have said that I blame Obama for a lot of this mess.

But Republicans whipped up the country into a frenzy with lies and mistruths about socialized medicine and basically created an economic climate in which a very expensive compromise bill was passed rather than a cheaper and more effective socialized plan. Conservatives need to own that. Obama compromised and did not do a good job of rebutting, that is his bad. But the entire bill cannot be blamed on him, not when he set out to do something completely different and was stopped by the conservatives.

[Renting with Raggles]

He's won that one already, the guy has already passed on his gene pool.

The Darwin award is given to the person who helps the species by not passing down faulty traits. Stop pissing in the gene pool, Jericho!

Though if Jericho was the fundy who defended Michael Pearl's methods of child-beating (can't remember all the trollsfundies!) he or his spouse may off'em before they reach reproductive maturity.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think the government getting out of healthcare would be the most efficient. Let capitalism do its work.

And what work is that?

[Anxious Girl]

In my little head, methinks he wants to go back to a time when only white men at the age of 18+ were allowed to vote. Maybe we're progressing from the 1900s such as women's rights and universal healthcare, is because the voters aren't all white conservative Christian men! Shocking!

[FlorenceHamilton]

I am in the health care business at the delivery of care. Our current system is a mess. It is all about Insurance companies (AKA BAnks) grabbing our dolllars and investing our dollars to make money. They do every possible thing to make obtaining services for patients difficult to the point of nearly impossible. Capitalism like this is not working. As the deadline for implementing Obamacare nears, the Insurance companies are tightening their fists more and more. People think that this is the result of Obamacare. Obamacare HAS NOT STARTED yet. This is how the Insurance companies are making people angry at what they think is Obamacare.

I am a doctor. I stand to make less money with a socialized system. I will not starve. People need better health care. They deserve not to be one major illness away from bankruptcy. This is the reality. It sucks. We all have to suck it up. If you dont have health you have nothing. Let us spend money as a society on the health of our society.

There you go. I said it.

[formergothardite]

I think the government getting out of healthcare would be the most efficient. Let capitalism do its work.

Why not do this with education? If children don't need health care, then why do they need to learn how to read? Just let private charites handle the poor children's education. If it works for their health it can work for their education. Right?

And if you don't go start snarking on fundies soon I think that is going to prove you lied when you said that was what you came here to do. We got plenty of threads on the Duggars and Bates that you can go to town snarking.

[jericho]

Doesn't this sound like someone who is here to snark on fundies?

That was on the subject of why spiritually abusive leaders like Bill Gothard and Doug Phillips should be held responsible for the harm they cause.

What is wrong with that? That's a reason why I think its okay to snark (but not attack) on fundies. They should know better. And I think Gothard and Phillips SHOULD be held responsible too.

He's also defended Chik-fil-a, Focus on the Family, and Sherwood Pictures.

All of those organizations I believe have done good. Although Sherwood movies are cheesy. I even played Mystery Science 3K in the back row of my Church when they showed it.

Here's a little sample of his dumbassery, of course you can view his profile if you want the whole picture in context.

Overly sheltered fundie girls are more mature than modern American teens.

I still stand by this. When I see teens in public school hanging out and compare that with groups of homeschool kids, there is no question the homeschoolers are more mature.

That's all I have time for right now.

[formergothardite]

When you come back, go snark on fundies.

[jericho]

I am in the health care business at the delivery of care. Our current system is a mess. It is all about Insurance companies (AKA BAnks) grabbing our dolllars and investing our dollars to make money. They do every possible thing to make obtaining services for patients difficult to the point of nearly impossible. Capitalism like this is not working. As the deadline for implementing Obamacare nears, the Insurance companies are tightening their fists more and more. People think that this is the result of Obamacare. Obamacare HAS NOT STARTED yet. This is how the Insurance companies are making people angry at what they think is Obamacare.

I am a doctor. I stand to make less money with a socialized system. I will not starve. People need better health care. They deserve not to be one major illness away from bankruptcy. This is the reality. It sucks. We all have to suck it up. If you dont have health you have nothing. Let us spend money as a society on the health of our society.

There you go. I said it.

When does Obamacare start?

How much do we have to suck up? $5 trillion more debt in 3 years! Something has to give.

[formergothardite]

Did you lie?! Go snark on fundies! I would love to see your snark on the Duggars and Bates.

[Sola]

I still stand by this. When I see teens in public school hanging out and compare that with groups of homeschool kids, there is no question the homeschoolers are more mature.

That's all I have time for right now.

Umm no, actually the fundie homeschoolers are showing less maturity in their development. The average teen hanging around the mall, experimenting with cosmetics, hair colours, clothing, they are the normal ones. The ones that are flirty and giggly, who might wear a skirt a bit too short, jeans a bit too tight, a shirt a bit too low cut - entirely normal.

It's called adolescence and is a normal part of human development. They are learning how to be adults, trying to attract a mate, and asserting their independence. Entirely normal, and is a process that is seen throughout the mammalian kingdom in different forms.

[NurseNell]

I still stand by this. When I see teens in public school hanging out and compare that with groups of homeschool kids, there is no question the homeschoolers are more mature.

That's all I have time for right now.

My last 20 years in nursing were spent as a school nurse in public schools. There are very mature public school students and very immature public school students. I have several friends who have homeschooled. There are very mature homeschooled children and there are very immature homeschooled students. Neither group can be painted with one large brush.

[formergothardite]

I have some teen siblings in a homeschooling group and they act just like the public school teens.

[AmyP]

wow. what an awesome, openminded, free exchange of ideas we have going here!!

[HijabiLady]

This kind of hypocrisy really dumfounds me. And for some reason it's usually coming from the conservative Christian side. I believe their Jesus taught very strongly against killing and also supported helping the poor by any means necessary. Yet you will see their pastors saying God bless America though we've killed over a million Iraqis in an illegal war, many of them women and children. A war we should have NEVER entered into in the first place. Yet Bush claimed to be a "born-again-Christian" and even used that as the means to get elected the second time around. I guess if the people getting killed are brown or non-Christian that makes it okay?

And sure, let charities take care of the poor people unless they are atheist or subscribe to a different belief system. The problem with local charities is they are usually religious based and basically care about their own. So what if those children going hungry belong to a non-Christian (or even Christian born but basically non-practicing) family. Charities don't work when dealing with the American population because of our diversity and religious obsessed populace. And churches and charity organizations aren't anywhere near financially liquid enough to handle even a NICU bill for a micro-preemie. We are talking about million(s) for one life, that would bankrupt most charities.

I am a doctor and would have no problem with something closer to socialized medicine. I actually have worked with the destitute and been up to my elbows in the stuff. What about you, Jericho? When's the last time you did anything with the destitute? How about you actually DO something instead of tossing bible verses out when backed into a corner? This kind of cold-hearted reasoning sickens me. Where is your compassion? Your humanity?

[Anxious Girl]

Where is your compassion? Your humanity?

Maybe Jericho's a robot. An unfeeling human emotions robot.

[Conuly]

Maybe Jericho's a robot. An unfeeling human emotions robot.

Well, he's violating the first law of robotics then.

[naysayersspeak]

Taking an aside from the merits of public heath care- about which I could wax lyrical for days- the article linked by the OP was actually misleading (shocking for Fox News, I know). The revised CBO numbers, when taken in their entirety, actually show the health care bill will reduce the deficit by an additional $50 billion.

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezr ... ezra-klein

[Boogalou]

But in all seriousness:

wow. what an awesome, openminded, free exchange of ideas we have going here!!

I always enjoy threads like these where people come in with wildly different viewpoints than are commonly held by posters here. It keeps the discussions interesting and I learn a lot. I don't usually comment though because I can't keep up. However, I am not opposed to a few well timed memes because, let's face it, some of the things said on this board are really ridiculous. But I will agree with you that it is awesome and a free exchange of ideas.

Anyway, I was reading an article a couple years ago about this guy who was a hard core libertarian. He had a dream/idea/goal of building a giant stationary ship that would hold about a million people and set it up as a new libertarian and (I think) completely capitalist country. I thought it would be really interesting to see if he was ever able to pull this off what would happen. I wonder if any of our more libertarian posters here would be interested in living in a community like this if it ever got off the ground (er, and into the water).