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Obamacare more expensive


jericho

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Really? (No snark.) Why don't you think so? He's a fundie who posts inflammatory things simply to rile people up, that pretty much fits the bill in my opinion.

I've met a lot of people who share similar beliefs with Jericho. If they came to this board, they would make similar statements. He might be a troll but I think that he actually believes what he writes.

The one thing that makes me think that he might be a troll is that he leaves the discussion as soon as anyone asks him tough questions.However, as I wrote earlier, I know people who think like he does so he could be for real.

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It makes me wince when I see working class Americans being so against having public-funded healthcare, while most of the time they're one or two paychecks away from the streets. Yeah, the US economy is slowly picking up, but with job security being what it is (it's not what it was in the 60's when you could retire at 65 with a watch as a present after working at the same company for 30 yrs, that's for sure!) one is lucky to have decent health insurance. What if one day one of those "Tea Party supporter Obama=Lenin" opens a letter and his private HMO drops him because he now has diabetes? What about the shrill female Santorum voter who thinks that Canada is a communist country because we have public health care, what will she do if her gynecologist detects an ovarian cyst that could be cancerous? How much will that cost her, with minimal HMO coverage?

That's what I don't get with tea party supporters, how can they vote against their own interests over and over...I must say that was a brilliant Machiavellian plan for the GOP to always use wedge issues like abortion and gay marriage to get these people to vote for them. Then when they're in power they'll vote tax cuts for the 1%, and give tons of taxpayers' dough to oil and arm companies. A great book written in 2003 relating to this phenomenon (I think) is "What's the matter with Kansas"; written before the rise of the tea party and the Obama presidency, I would love to see an updated 2012 edition.

Those against having some public health care in the US: do you realize that what bankrups yr country is unneccessary military spending? I'm no pacifist, of course one needs an army, but aren't you tired of being the world's policemen in Iraq, Lybia, Afghanistan (I was for the mission after 9-11 but now it looks like NATO makes the same mistakes as the USSR in the 80s) and all those various bases of yours around the globe? Slash it by half, you'll still have a big military and you'll be able to help your own people in your borders.

I'm pretty much right-of center on many things, but darn, the US is the only 1st world country without public health care. Shameful.

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I am not a fundie! Where do you people keep getting that idea from? Republican/Conservative yes. Fundie, NO!

You want to put women who have abortions in jail for murder, that makes you a fundie.

And if you are really here just to snark on fundies, go to one of the other threads and start snarking away on the Duggars and Bates.

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The borrower is slave to the lender. When you are in debt to another, you enter into a slave/master relationship with your creditor. (Proverbs 22:7)

We are required to pay back what we borrowed. It is easy to take this lightly, but if we borrowed it, we should pay it back. (Psalm 37:21, Ecclesiastes 5:4).

Jericho, you are a member of society. As a member, you are responsible for the upkeep of our nation. That includes paying for roads, schools, and the military. You aren't borrowing anything from the government.

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I've met a lot of people who share similar beliefs with Jericho. If they came to this board, they would make similar statements. He might be a troll but I think that he actually believes what he writes.

The one thing that makes me think that he might be a troll is that he leaves the discussion as soon as anyone asks him tough questions.However, as I wrote earlier, I know people who think like he does so he could be for real.

I don't think he is a troll either, but I think he likes to post stuff that he thinks will prove all us ebil liberals wrong. It would go a long way to make him look less troll like if he would go join threads and snark on fundies like he said he came here originally to do.

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I've met a lot of people who share similar beliefs with Jericho. If they came to this board, they would make similar statements. He might be a troll but I think that he actually believes what he writes.

The one thing that makes me think that he might be a troll is that he leaves the discussion as soon as anyone asks him tough questions.However, as I wrote earlier, I know people who think like he does so he could be for real.

Oh, absolutely. Many books have been written about the Jerichos of this country of all stripes, such as Thomas Franks' What's the Matter with Kansas. He's hardly unique.

Many, many people have been manipulated into voting against their own interests, such as working and middle class people voting against health care reform.

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Guest Anonymous

I am not a fundie! Where do you people keep getting that idea from? Republican/Conservative yes. Fundie, NO!

You think your personal religious convictions ought to be the law, that's one of my single biggest markers for fundiedom. Also you're a misogynist. The shoe fits.

I've met a lot of people who share similar beliefs with Jericho. If they came to this board, they would make similar statements. He might be a troll but I think that he actually believes what he writes.

The one thing that makes me think that he might be a troll is that he leaves the discussion as soon as anyone asks him tough questions.However, as I wrote earlier, I know people who think like he does so he could be for real.

Oh, I absolutely agree that he believes what he writes. I don't think that precludes him being a troll, though. I'm truly a feminist, but if I went to an MRA board and started posting about how wonderful feminism is I would still be trolling. If I went to a board dedicated to snarking on liberal socialists and posted about how awesome liberal socialism is I would be trolling. That's basically what he's doing. This post has nothing to do with fundies or religion at all, the only reason it's here is because jericho likes to start shit and get attention. Hence, troll.

I don't think he is a troll either, but I think he likes to post stuff that he thinks will prove all us ebil liberals wrong. It would go a long way to make him look less troll like if he would go join threads and snark on fundies like he said he came here originally to do.

He was engaging in fundie apologetics almost from his first post here. Troll.

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I've met a lot of people who share similar beliefs with Jericho. If they came to this board, they would make similar statements. He might be a troll but I think that he actually believes what he writes.

The one thing that makes me think that he might be a troll is that he leaves the discussion as soon as anyone asks him tough questions.However, as I wrote earlier, I know people who think like he does so he could be for real.

The reason it "seems" like I leave when tough questions are asked is because I'm constantly responded to by everyone on the board and I can't be here all the time. At some point I just have to stop and when I come back later the discussion has moved on. I don't recall any time where I ran off because I didn't have a response.

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'And by continuing to print more and more money with no regard to value, we lower the social construct value of the American dollar to the rest of the world.' (Jericho)

Yes, Jericho, and by continuing to oppose healthcare for your citizens with no regard for human life or suffering, you lower America's social standing in the eyes of the rest of the world, as even impoverished countries - impoverished NOT because of their investment in healthcare but for historical or geographical reasons - demonstrate their greater compassion and social conscience.

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You think your personal religious convictions ought to be the law, that's one of my single biggest markers for fundiedom. Also you're a misogynist. The shoe fits.

I do not hate women. You are totally misrepresenting me.

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Technology is different now. Industry is different now. Medicine is different now. Innovation is different now. The world is completely different now from the early 1900's. To say that times would go back to how it was in the early 1900's if government shrunk welfare is unrealistic.

My mother was a child and young teen in the fifties. Because her father was an abusive alcoholic, her mother worked low paying jobs. There were plenty of times when she went without food or things we consider neccessities today, like electricy. Contrary to what the movies try to depict, this wasn't the "We're poor but we're still happy' type of poverty. Her childhood was miserable and none of her siblings discuss the past in positive terms.

Where were the church groups to help her?

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'And by continuing to print more and more money with no regard to value, we lower the social construct value of the American dollar to the rest of the world.' (Jericho)

Yes, Jericho, and by continuing to oppose healthcare for your citizens with no regard for human life or suffering, you lower America's social standing in the eyes of the rest of the world, as even impoverished countries - impoverished NOT because of their investment in healthcare but for historical or geographical reasons - demonstrate their greater compassion and social conscience.

What do you propose we do when the U.S. government collapses due to financial weakness?

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Healthcare isn't some vague government program, healthcare is healing the sick. Shouldn't creating/ensuring healthy humans be a greater factor than the cost, at least for a God-fearing Christian?

Actually healthcare isn't just healing the sick. If we did more preventative care we'd have less healing of the sick needed. There will always be people who won't get routine exams and preventative care but hopefully universal coverage would have more Americans doing that, which in the long term could reduce costs.

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I think it is frustrating when people equate "public" healthcare with "free" health-care. The Obama plan will not provide free health care to people, nor will it reduce the cost for those who are already insured. The truth is about 90% of the "problems" with our healthcare could be fixed through closing some gaps in the insurance regulation and providing a nationally available insurance plan that has affordable premiums. I know the pre-existing stuff "catches" people in bad situations a lot, but the truth is that pre-existing conditions will continue to be a problem under Obama's plan because you will have to be uninsured for 6 months before you can apply for "obamacare", then they can accept you or reject you, so if you have cancer, do you think the government is going to accept you? nope. and then, you have been uninsured for 6 months and when you go to try to get other insurance they'll deem your cancer as pre-existing.

I think the most frustrating thing about "Obama-care" is that it isn't solving ANY of the problems that everyone complains about our current system, and it will cost many people alot more $$$. I don't mind paying a supplemental tax for an over-all improvement in health care, but to pay more and get the same or less across the board that's even worse. Seems like we could have had soem small steps that would lead to better results....

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Okay, jericho

How do you think that health care for the poor and lower middle class should be handled? What is your solution?

Does it bother you that we spend so much on wars and yet not as much on health care?

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What do you propose we do when the U.S. government collapses due to financial weakness?

I could be wrong, I'm not checking, but I'm guessing we spend more on national defense than on health care. I say we should reduce our spending there. Get out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and stay out. That will save lots.

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Guest Anonymous

I do not hate women. You are totally misrepresenting me.

You are totally full of shit. Anyone can look at your posts and see that you have big problems in regards to how you think women should be treated. You have been patronizing and sexist as hell in this very thread. I notice you didn't attempt to refute the bit about your religious convictions, either.

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Although I don't want to put words in Jericho's mouth, most of the right wingers support the presence of the military in the Middle East. Wars cost money. No one seems to want to discuss the fact that we've spent a lot of money over the past ten years to keep military men and women in danger.

Well, that's what I find even more hypocritical. Rightwingers generally are happy to fund a lot of military action in the Middle East but any tax they dislike is labelled as 'stealing'.

I just hate how it's this attitude of 'I want to help the poor...but only on MY terms'. It's selfish. I just don't get how you (generic you) can see people suffering and unable to afford treatment and say they should find the money, and that taking away insurance will remove charity. Firstly, that's not true, and secondly, it's incredibly patronising. Maybe those people don't want charity and furthermore, I just don't see why you should have to afford treatment. You shouldn't have to struggle economically due to your health.

ETA: A question for Jericho in the first post of this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8632

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The borrower is slave to the lender. When you are in debt to another, you enter into a slave/master relationship with your creditor. (Proverbs 22:7)

Blessed are those who are generous, because they feed the poor.

That's proverbs 22:9. Two verses down. :lol:

You also cited three bible verses from the old testament. Jesus broke all those rules. I asked specifically how you dare counter the motherfucking supernatural entity your religion is named after?

JESUS SAID:

"Give to other people, and you will receive. You will be given much. It will be poured into your hands--more than you can hold. You will be given so much that it will spill into your lap. The way you give to other people is the way God will give to you. Luke 6:38

Poor, poor Jericho. In so many ways.

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Jericho, why dont' you go snark on fundies in another thread like you said you originally came here to do?

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And you're acting like having lots of money is the only thing worth having here.

Sadly, today's so-called conservative Christians seem to have strayed extremely far from what I believe to be Christ's precepts. They are extremely judgmental and want to make decisions for others (incorporate it into law, such as restricting access to birth control, sex education, and abortion), and believe it is their right, nay their calling, to be intrusive into the health care decisions of other people.

They worry about the poor having too much. They don't like it when the poor and needy get food stamps or other government assistance. They feel this is wrong somehow. I don't know how you could get any farther from Christ's teachings than this pervasive attitude. How can they still believe they are following Christ's teachings when they wish continued hardship on others?

They want to severely restrict women's rights in all areas. They don't believe they should work outside the home, don't believe they should be allowed to wear certain kinds of clothing, don't believe they should express anything but a sweet disposition and agree 100% with whatever their father, or their husband says or tells them to do. In other words, they don't believe women should be able to choose right from wrong. Didn't God give all humans free will, not just the mens, who then can tell the wimmins what is right and what is wrong?

These modern day "Christians" are some of the least Christian-like people I've ever come in contact with. Smug, self-congratulatory, judgmental, prying, nosy, demanding that they be allowed to tell everyone else how to live and what to do. I am not joking when I say this: If there is a heaven and these folks are going to end up there -- I don't want to be stuck with them for eternity! They make life miserable down here on planet Earth enough, thank you very much.

(Sorry to go off on a rant. I am a spiritual person, but have grown very weary and disgusted with almost every form of organized religion, most especially the "Christian right" in the United States. It's to the point where I really have a hard time keeping a civil tongue around such people. I don't view them as following the teachings of Christ at all.)

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I spent a morning in the ER not to long ago. I was not admitted to the hospital I did have a CTscan of my abdomen, some blood and urine tests, an iv and some major pain medications. my bill for all that because I am uninsured was about $10,800. It cost me roughly 2k an hour to be there. I ended up getting medical grants to cover all but my medications. It was scary to think that I might have to spend the rest of my life paying it off. I was really sick.

That was the first time I had been to the ER in over 7 years. I go to the doctor once or twice a year just for regular checkup type stuff.

Some people go to the ERs in this world because they don't even have a primary care doctor or can't afford one or can't find one that accepts people without health insurance. I would be interested in knowing if health care costs will actually go down if more people have access to a primary care doctor.

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