Arizona 'wrongful birth' law.

[Constance Vigilance]

No i just guess it's just our ebil socialist healthcare and programs to help the handicapped and other people in need.

Yes, this is what I was using sarcasm to point out to you. :roll: And in the absence of universal healthcare, many Americans need to sue to cover the medical costs malpractice creates for them. Do you understand basic conversation? Do we need to provide an interpreter of some kind?

I fully admit I am ignorant about how litigation works.

To me, it seems that the answer to anything in the US is get a lawyer and get paid.

Stop with the first sentence, you were on to something there.

[reds]

Yes, this is what I was using sarcasm to point out to you. :roll: And in the absence of universal healthcare, many Americans need to sue to cover the medical costs malpractice creates for them. Do you understand basic conversation? Do we need to provide an interpreter of some kind?

Stop with the first sentence, you were on to something there.

How about Fuck off.

I am trying to learn and value others opinions.

If you notice that my original question

But why is society so happy and eager to sue?

is what you have ignored.

edited to add: Which is in general not just in malpractice.

[Constance Vigilance]

How about Fuck off.

I am trying to learn and value others opinions.

If you notice that my original question

is what you have ignored.

edited to add: Which is in general not just in malpractice.

People have explained to you why people would sue over split coffee or malpractice (two of the examples you cited), and you have misrepresented or completely ignored the answers, with a heavy dose of implication that you're better than anyone who would sue for those reasons. I'm going to call bullshit on the idea that you are "trying to learn and value others opinions" when you clearly aren't even reading them. So fuck on off yourself. :lol:

Edited for riffles.

[reds]

How many more examples of lawsuits should i place here?

[formergothardite]

How about Fuck off.

I am trying to learn and value others opinions.

If you notice that my original question

is what you have ignored.

edited to add: Which is in general not just in malpractice.

And I think you got the answer to why Americans are more likely to sue for medical mistakes and third degree burns caused by spilled coffee than Canadians. I know people who have $10,000 deductables on their insurance. If you go to get a $1 cup of coffee and end up with third degree burns, skin grafts and two years of being disabled and you have to pay a $10,000 deductable before the insurance will kick in a cover it, yes, you are probably more likely to sue than if you didn't have to worry about covering the medical costs.

[bea]

Lucky I didn't live in Arizona in 2005, then.

I was so excited to be pregnant - it would be our first baby, we'd been married since 1998. We told both our families. I didn't have much nausea, was a little tired, all my blood tests looked good, everything was awesome. I almost didn't go to the nuchal translucency (fluid in the fetus' neck) ultrasound, but my dad had grown up with a younger brother who had severe Down Syndrome and additional brain damage and I had seen first hand just how hard it is on a family to have a disabled member.

The NT measurement was larger than average, so they told me I could wait a few weeks and have it remeasured, or have a CVS - where they aspirate a small amount of the placenta via a transvaginal or transabdominal needle - to test for chromosomal abnormalities. I chose to have a CVS.

The results came back a week later. Trisomy 13, incompatible with life. There was no question for my husband or I, because the idea of going through a pregnancy only to give birth to a baby whose life would be measured in minutes was impossible. In addition, with that kind of severe abnormality, the risks to ME were quite high in having a late-stage miscarriage and impacting my ability to have future children.

I had an abortion at 14 weeks, in a hospital, done by my own OB/GYN. The doctors gave me the information, they didn't make the decision for me.

I had a 10-week CVS done with each of my two subsequent pregnancies. Both, thank heavens, were normal. Would have I had an abortion for Down Syndrome? Maybe. I don't know. But I'd sure as FUCK want to know if the doctor saw something troublesome or abnormal.

Besides which, when the doctor DOES see something abnormal on an ultrasound or test, they have to monitor the pregnancy more closely in order to provide medical care to the woman AND the fetus. How are the doctors supposed to explain that? "Oh no, everything is fine, you just have to come in for weekly ultrasounds and stress tests." Sure, that's going to work, no one will suspect ANYTHING.

[bananacat]

Whenever people bring up this myth of over-zealous suing, a link to snopes.com is in order: http://www.snopes.com/legal/lawsuits.asp Seriously people, make a little effort. I don't think the U.S. is sue-happy, for the most part. There will always be a few oddballs who try to bring frivolous suits, but that's why we have the courts in the first place! Suing doesn't automatically mean that the complainant will win or get a settlement. We have judges and courts to decide which suits are frivolous and which are legitimate. Is that really so hard to understand?

Lawyers are the people that everyone loves to hate, until they need one for themselves. Someone has to keep big business honest because they sure as hell won't do it voluntarily.

[MandyLaLa]

I think I may adopt your term. Brilliant! I always had an issue with the "anti-choicers"supporting the death penalty. I could never grasp how you could justify both.

When it's a fetus or even a zygote you sure as hell better not "murder :roll: it" Once you have the baby you can't afford but were required to have, you sure as hell better not ask "us" to help feed it or otherwise take care of it. But if it "murders" someone "we" sure as hell will end that persons life.

[muffynbear]

How nice, now women aren't even to know the details about their own bodies.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/07 ... abortions/

The entire Republican party has gone insane.

This makes me absolutely stabby. How is this legal? How is this ethical? How far are Republicans going to push it? Should I say, how far are WE going to LET them push it? What's next?

If I were pregnant, I would want to know if there were any abnormalities. Why? Because it's my FUCKING BODY! I have a right to fucking know!

:angry-screaming: :angry-cussingwhite: :angry-cussing:

Thank gawd I live in one of the most liberal states in the US. This makes me so mad I'm shaking.

Nancy K. Barto is the one that sponsored this. I intend to give her a piece of my mind.

http://www.azleg.gov/MembersPage.asp?Me ... sion_ID=85

ETA: The bitch also has a twitter.

[Childless]

Ah, so the state of Arizona thinks I should be dead. Good to know. I think I'll avoid that state from now on. I'll take my money and vacation somewhere else in the future.

My first pregnancy, a very wanted pregnancy that we tried for nearly 9 months to achieve, was ectopic. I was devastated. Thankfully, my OB/GYN was a good doctor and shared all the information about my condition with me. I was early enough in the pregnancy that it could be terminated with drugs rather than surgery. I was able to avoid the extra risks to both my life and my future fertility associated with surgery and the removal of a tube. Because I was able to make an informed decision about my own body, I was able to get pregnant again and have a beautiful son. So, in addition to thinking I would be better off dead, they also think my son shouldn't exist.

Yeah, Arizona sucks.

[LadyBlue]

It sure isnt the $20,000 that you said it was.

As for medical malpractice, I am from Canada. It happens up here but I have never heard of anyone sueing a doctor for it. Friend one, baby died in utero because doctor wouldnt schedule a delivery.

Friend two, forceps used, baby with massive trama, perminately disabled.

Friend three, forceps used on her birth, massive damage to all nerves on right side of face.

Mother, diagonsed with heartburn and released from hospital. Pharmasist caught that it was heart attack and sent her back.

I am sure each one of these cases could have been worth money if someone wanted to sue a doctor. Or felt that something bad happened to them so suddenly they have won the lottery.

You may not hear about it, but it happens. A lot. My husband contacted a lawyer about suing the hospital that nearly killed him. He couldn't sue because he didn't actually die and his ongoing issues can't be directly attributed to them, but the lawyer pointed out that that hospital is the target of a lot of suits. And that the courts are so backed up with malpractice cases if they had taken our case, it would take 5-7 years for a resolution. So yeah, people sue doctors, even in Canada.

[crazyforkate]

This is just...wrong. How on earth could you be like, "Hey, your child has _____, and we didn't tell you and now his health is wrecked and you've been blindsided, but at least you didn't have an abortion!" Disgusting. Just disgusting.

[m0drnmoonlight]

This is awful. How is it even ETHICAL?! So if a doctor sees a woman's fetus has no spine or something, they don't have to say anything and will be protected from any wrongful birth lawsuits? What if it's something that kills the mother and the fetus, the mother's family can't sue? I don't get how a doctor withholding information about a pregnancy from a woman isn't grounds for malpractice.

[notsocommon]

Yeah, I never said that was all she got, that was what she originally sued for. So it wasn't like she started off saying I want millions, the jury decided that. And I don't know about everyone else, but when I order a drink and it says "Caution: Hot" I don't expect third degree burns, skin grafts and several years of being disabled if I spill it on myself.

THIS!

I expect a reaction like #@%#^$@^#%$#@%# That was ^$#@#$&%@$&% HOT! a little reddness, but perfectly fine after a little while.

A cup saying "this beverage is hot" does not mean the company in question can get away with a dangerously hot drink.

[bea]

Not to mention that knowing about challenges or problems before birth can save the baby's life. Ultrasound discovers Spina Bifida, you don't tell the mother because she might choose to terminate the pregnancy, she goes through with her planned natural vaginal delivery and....it kills the baby, because with Spina Bifida, the baby has to be taken via c-section to avoid further damaging the spine. Ultrasound discovers a serious organ problem - say, a massive heart defect, or something. Let's not tell the mother, because she might choose to terminate the pregnancy. She chooses to give birth at a hospital without a Level IV NICU and cardiac (or otherwise) surgeon standing by, along with a critical care team. Baby dies.

How is this even LOGICAL? This is information that women NEED, in order to make decisions that have nothing to do with abortion - where to deliver, how to deliver, whether they're at risk for complications themselves, if they need to have further tests done to determine the severity of the defect or problem, whether they need a second opinion, etc.

I know I"m preaching to the choir, but the more I think about it, the more enraged I get.

[SpeakNow]

Not to mention that knowing about challenges or problems before birth can save the baby's life. Ultrasound discovers Spina Bifida, you don't tell the mother because she might choose to terminate the pregnancy, she goes through with her planned natural vaginal delivery and....it kills the baby, because with Spina Bifida, the baby has to be taken via c-section to avoid further damaging the spine. Ultrasound discovers a serious organ problem - say, a massive heart defect, or something. Let's not tell the mother, because she might choose to terminate the pregnancy. She chooses to give birth at a hospital without a Level IV NICU and cardiac (or otherwise) surgeon standing by, along with a critical care team. Baby dies.

How is this even LOGICAL? This is information that women NEED, in order to make decisions that have nothing to do with abortion - where to deliver, how to deliver, whether they're at risk for complications themselves, if they need to have further tests done to determine the severity of the defect or problem, whether they need a second opinion, etc.

I know I"m preaching to the choir, but the more I think about it, the more enraged I get.

Amen!

[Guest]

Delurking to say- freejinger's 'arizona wrongful birth law' is second in the google search engine. Maybe that would actually get some people thinking.

[DistantStar]

Idaho

Awww, FUCK! And here I thought we were at least a hair less backwards than somebody what with Virginia's ultrasound law; at least they beat Idaho to that, if not by much as it's being pushed here as well...

I have personal concerns with terminations because of disabilities, though what people do in such situations is their decision, but this sort of thing is fucking ridiculous.

[Arielkay]

These men set women up to fail from the beginning. No sex education, no discussion of birth control - as if it would be an option if they did. So the girl, totally ignorant, gets her purity ring and says she'll stay a virgin, despite not even realizing fully what that means. Then she meets a cute boy, also a fundie of course because who else would her parents ever allow her to meet. So they sneak off, cause not being allowed to date this makes things so much more exciting. And the girl, being totally ignorant, does not realize when things are getting out of hand. If she did, said boy would probably say something like "can't happen the first time". Obviously neither has b.c. so the girl gets pregnant.

Now with parents like hers, who slut shame and shun unwed mothers, the girl obviously does not feel secure telling them what happened. So one of three things could occur: 1. She keeps carrying the baby, but hides the pregnancy from others and partly from herself thru denial. Baby is born on a toilet and either abandoned or dies from an unassisted birth. 2. She commits suicide, because her life is ruined, but she can't kill a "baby" 3. She wants to live enough and keep her dignity and parent's love. She has an abortion. With luck, fundie boy might be a peach and pitch in. He of course has few fears, since fundie boys are not expected to control themselves.

Now ALL of this could possibly have been avoided if her parents had taught her about sex and birth control. And if that still failed, which happens, if they had shown her that they would love her no matter what happened she also would have felt more comfortable going to them. Maybe she might have struggled to raise the baby, or given it up for adoption, or had a safe abortion and gone on with her life. But no, they set her up to fail. They actually PREFER the idea of infanticide or suicide over a possible - POSSIBLE - abortion of a fetus. It is insane.

And that's what they want to do to every other woman. I don't think they even care that much about unborn babies, when you think about it. If they did, they would work as much on PREVENTING pregnancy as they did on preventing abortion.

[desertvixen]

How is this even LOGICAL? This is information that women NEED, in order to make decisions that have nothing to do with abortion - where to deliver, how to deliver, whether they're at risk for complications themselves, if they need to have further tests done to determine the severity of the defect or problem, whether they need a second opinion, etc.

I know I"m preaching to the choir, but the more I think about it, the more enraged I get.

Even several of the people on my f-list who have been bitching about the contraceptive issue agree that this is ridiculous.