Born gay? (aka help an escaped fundie daughter)

[latraviata]

Since I've been with conservative, anti-gay people my whole life, I haven't had much experience with gay people (is that the right term, to say "gay people"?). I've heard that someone is *born* gay, but I've also heard like sometimes girls go lesbian if they were abused by men. Soo how does this all work?? If someone is born gay, does that mean something in their brain is wired differently than a "straight" person?

I genuinely want to know. lol

Well, some interesting links about the difference between homo and heterosexual brain structure.

Well accepted and acknowledged by the international science association.

http://playthink.wordpress.com/2008/06/ ... gay-brain/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 939090350K

[jaelh]

Because AFAIK, while I doubt Dougie's a church-goer, I can't imagine him not still being a believer in Christ.

Ah - I was listening to this earlier today. Not a Dougie, no. But this sentence made me think of it:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/play_fu ... =379&act=3

(You asked me the time, I told you how to build a clock. I do that, sometime. :doh: )

And it's always great when you do :)

[nolongerIFBx]

Unlike every fundie I've ever heard speak on this subject, I do believe that you can be born gay, bi, or straight.

Gay, bi, or straight, what actions you take based on those feelings is a choice.

[fundiefan]

I can't wrap my brain around it being a choice. At all.

I am heterosexual. I like men. I am attracted to men. Men are sexy. I feel things, physically and emotionally, for men.

Nothing could make me feel those things for women. I can't comprehend making a 'choice' to feel for a woman what I feel for men.

I can't imagine just up and deciding I want to have feelings for women. I can't comprehend the idea that someone can choose to turn off physical and emotional attraction and transfer it.

[FJismyheadship]

I have a friend who I recently found out was gay. I couldn't wrap my mind around it at first... simply because I never guessed it. When a mutual friend told me, I went right to her. I remember going to her one day and asking if she was terribly busy, because I needed to ask her something personal. This may have been the first REAL personal question I ever asked her. She explained to me that yes she "had been" gay at one point, but now she is celibate because the Bible says its wrong. She says she was in two long term relationships, one of them she had the house, the kids, the whole nine yards (except the kids weren't hers, they were her partners) She told me she can NEVER be with a man, because men make her nauseous. (HA spell check accidentally changed it to gaseous) I assume she means the idea of being with a man makes her feel sick, because she does have male friends. I told her then I really didn't care one way or another if she was gay, I just wanted to clear it up, because I had heard it. I love her whether she's gay, straight, or attracted to Flying Spaghetti Monsters.

Now check out what my dad told me:

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV)

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (NIV)

First off, he told me that PHYSICALLY its impossible for man to "lie with a man as one lies with a woman" But back in the olden days when this was written, there was a certain practice, among the Pagan's where men would act out having sex like a man and a woman do. And THAT RITUAL was what was detestable, NOT men having sex with men, or women having sex with women.

Honestly, I can't see why God would make humans who like the same sex, if it wasn't supposed to be. Homosexuality has been around for AGES. Also, a lot of people quote Paul on the subject, but I just wanna know one thing... was that PAUL'S opinion, or did GOD say it was bad? And did JESUS HIMSELF ever say it was wrong? Just sayin....

[nuri]

First off, he told me that PHYSICALLY its impossible for man to "lie with a man as one lies with a woman" But back in the olden days when this was written, there was a certain practice, among the Pagan's where men would act out having sex like a man and a woman do. And THAT RITUAL was what was detestable, NOT men having sex with men, or women having sex with women.

Curiosity -- what practice could this be. If it is physically impossible (assuming because, with the exception of some transmen, men don't have vagina's), what practice could he be referring to?

[raineymott]

Thanks MamaJunebug and everyone else!

Honestly, I can't see why God would make humans who like the same sex, if it wasn't supposed to be. Homosexuality has been around for AGES. Also, a lot of people quote Paul on the subject, but I just wanna know one thing... was that PAUL'S opinion, or did GOD say it was bad? And did JESUS HIMSELF ever say it was wrong? Just sayin....

I don't think my dad believed people are born gay (hey, he thinks chronic depression and mental disorders are self-inflicted), but to something like this he would say that "all people are born sinful and we have to deny those parts of ourself". That type of thing. lol Just like he says all people are born selfish and you have to deny that.

Anyways this has all been very interesting and enlightening...thanks for the links, too!

[Rosa]

You know, people do whatever they want, religiously, but being celibate doesn't make you not gay. Or not heterosexual. Or not bisexual.

I have a hard time imagining not knowing gay people, even subtracting out the queer women I've dated and known through women I dated. 1 of my 3 great-uncles on my mom's side was gay; he had a nearly lifelong partner (outlived him by about 3 years, is all). My stepfather is one of 4 brothers and 2 were gay. My mom belonged to a book club of fellow school teachers of whom maybe 1/3 were lesbians (all at least professionally closeted, it being a small town and them being teachers.) My next door neighbor that fed my cats while I was on vacation is a lesbian and owns a home with her partner of many years. One of my friends from highschool is gay and had the buffest, cutest, smartest husband in the class when 10 year reunion time came around. My son's babysitter is a lesbian. Several of my coworkers, that I know of - I don't think I can make an exhaustive list, I'd have to go through each part of my life and think carefully.

I think denying anyone their sexuality is a terrible sin, frankly - it causes such misery, shame, lies, and anger. I met a woman this weekend who spent 20 years married to a man who isn't attracted to women at all, wondering why she couldn't be beautiful enough or sexy enough for him - the closet stunted both their lives for decades and I can't imagine what kind of relationship model that was for their several children. Choosing celibacy as a tool for spiritual growth or discipline - as some priests are supposed to do, as I have heard some Christians do by not masturbating - can be a great individual choice, but forcing it on others is cruel, and arrogant (and doomed to fail.)

[liltwinstar]

I don't believe homosexuality is a choice- I absolutely believe people are born that way. A close family member is lesbian, and even when we were kids, it was pretty obvious that she was "different" - and I don't mean that in a bad way at all - she was just herself, in a way that was different from the way that the other little girls I knew were. In watching her "come out" (I guess that's what I'd call it; she's never formally had a conversation with me) it's clear that she's coming into her own. She's happier than I've ever seen her, and she's just more comfortable in her own skin. She's still on the dating scene, and I really hope that she can meet the right woman and have a happy life. I love her dearly, and the gender of the person she chooses to sleep with doesn't matter one bit to me. I just want her to be happy.

In observing other gay couples (I work with a gay man; my husband is good friends with a lesbian woman he works with), they're just the same as anyone else. To me, getting mad at "the gays" is just about as productive as getting mad at a guy who prefers redheaded women over blondes or brunettes - it's just how folks are wired, so what's the point of getting worked up over it?

I grew up fundie too, and heard (over and over and over) about the evil "gay agenda." And now that I actually know several gay people? I can't for the life of me figure out what is so scary about them. They're just normal people, in normal relationships, with normal relationship issues. They have houses and kids (sometimes) and stuff going on in their lives just like the rest of us. There is no "agenda" - they're just people.

[Cassandra]

I can't wrap my brain around it being a choice. At all.

I am heterosexual. I like men. I am attracted to men. Men are sexy. I feel things, physically and emotionally, for men.

Nothing could make me feel those things for women. I can't comprehend making a 'choice' to feel for a woman what I feel for men.

I can't imagine just up and deciding I want to have feelings for women. I can't comprehend the idea that someone can choose to turn off physical and emotional attraction and transfer it.

I believe sexuality isn't a choice just based on my own personal experience. My very first crush was on my 5 year next door neighbor Justin. He would drive me around in his little toy jeep on 'dates'. I didn't know what gay or straight was and coming from a single-non-dating parent home I didn't see heterosexual romantic interaction up close. I just liked this boy, and from then on I had crushes on boys. It really wasn't under my control.

[Rosa]

See, I see my sexuality evolving quite a bit as I grow and learn and have experiences...there are things I never imagined I'd like, but did like quite a bit once i experienced them and quickly added them to my fantasy repertoire. And my relationship with my partner continues to grow sexually as well as in other ways. I imagine for a lot of people, their sexuality can be shaped on purpose or on accident, by their lives...but that doesn't mean we all fit the same mold at the end. You know?

But, I'm bisexual; whatever wiring I have is to a type, not a gender (and that type is so ridiculously easily traced to my specific life history, it's not even funny.)

[Montara]

If there's one thing that is wrong, evil and disgusting it's making people feel ashamed of who they are and what they can't help being. My cousin is gay and his parents are uber religious. They've only just started talking to him again after several years. He's not allowed to bring his partner to visit in case he 'corrupts' his younger brother. The first time he brought his partner to visit me he nearly broke my heart. He was so hesitant and cautious about my reaction. (My parents and I used to be in the same religion as his parents. I am now firmly an athiest.)

As a PP said, being gay is so not a choice. I couldn't imagine having sex with another woman. I can look at a woman and appreciate that she's beautiful, but beyond that, no way.

[daharyn]

See, I see my sexuality evolving quite a bit as I grow and learn and have experiences...there are things I never imagined I'd like, but did like quite a bit once i experienced them and quickly added them to my fantasy repertoire. And my relationship with my partner continues to grow sexually as well as in other ways. I imagine for a lot of people, their sexuality can be shaped on purpose or on accident, by their lives...but that doesn't mean we all fit the same mold at the end. You know?

But, I'm bisexual; whatever wiring I have is to a type, not a gender (and that type is so ridiculously easily traced to my specific life history, it's not even funny.)

This, this, a thousand times this. I don't discriminate on the basis of gender in my intimate relationships. Sometimes that means I end up with a man, or with a woman, or with someone who identifies as both/neither/something else entirely. I will say, however, that getting to this point identity-wise wasn't easy. I came out as lesbian in college since most, though not all, of my relationships were with women. It didn't sit exactly right, but I didn't really have the best words for who I felt I was, and "lesbian" was the easiest word available to me? I eventually identified as "queer," because it seemed a more flexible word for who I was as a person, and it still let me be a part of where I connected culturally--so much of my life is in the LGBT community.

At this point, I figure "bisexual" is the technical description of who I am, and what most people can get their heads around. In my head it's still way, way, way more complicated than that... there are a few additional words I always want to add on to the "bi" label. (I don't even use the Kinsey scale, since it only operates on one axis!) I still think of myself as "queer," but "queer poly bi chick with a long-term boyfriend" is just something the rest of the world wouldn't get. It also seems that if I was honest about that complexity with everyone I met, that that would be misread as evidence of the eebil homosexual agenda. After all, I'm obviously out to confuse people, right, and drive them away from the righteous one man, one woman path.

[lilah]

I also think sexuality is innate. I didn't chose to be mostly-straight, i just realized that I had a huge crush on several famous actors, and then a guy who rode my school bus and then later, a girl on my soccer team. I'm now happily married to a man. I'd say I'm probably a 2 on the Kinsey scale (as limmited as that scale is) but I'm pretty happy and satisfied with my husband.

This blog is really cute, it shows pictures of LGBT as kid and they talk about how they knew they were LGBT from a young age. http://borngaybornthisway.blogspot.com/

[Marserin]

Just thought, as a lesbian I should throw in my 2 cents...

While, I don't know why I am a lesbian (mostly). I can't imagine being in the relationship that I am in with a man. It just doesn't click for me. I was not abused and my relationships with men have mostly been positive.

If you have any "ask-a-lesbian" kind of questions. Feel free