Born gay? (aka help an escaped fundie daughter)

[raineymott]

Since I've been with conservative, anti-gay people my whole life, I haven't had much experience with gay people (is that the right term, to say "gay people"?). I've heard that someone is *born* gay, but I've also heard like sometimes girls go lesbian if they were abused by men. Soo how does this all work?? If someone is born gay, does that mean something in their brain is wired differently than a "straight" person?

I genuinely want to know. lol

[dormouse]

There have been many theories as to what causes homosexuality, but nobody really knows. Some say it's chromosomes, others that it's birth order (the more older brothers a young man has, the more it increases his odds of being homosexual), more fertile female relatives, different brain structures, etc.

I'm really of those who think that people are born gay, and that it's not a choice. I have many gay friends, and they have always been attracted to the same sex, since puberty. You don't become gay overnight, or choose to be. Yes, some people are genuinely bisexual, and some are heterosexual but choose to experiment at some point in their life. This is not the same thing as being homosexual.

I don't think you will offend anyone by saying "gay people", but the more 'politically correct' term is LGBT (lesbian, gay, bi, trans).

:twocents-02cents: I was one of those abused women you are mentioning, and I'm heterosexual. I had a lesbian relationship, but quickly went back to men. As I said, you are either gay/bi, or you are not. Besides, there is as much, if not more, abuse in lesbian relationships. The abuse is more emotional than physical, though.

[brashchick]

Raineymott, I can only answer for myself. I know I always felt "different". My closest emotional bonds were always with women. I just was always drawn emotionally and sexually to women. I have one sister who is a lesbian, and one who is bi sexual, so it would appear to be a family trait of some sort. We also have one sister who says she has never been attracted to women and one straight brother. The only man who has ever made my heart race in any way is my son, just because I adore him. I have never felt for a man what I started feeling for women when I hit pubery.

[pomology]

Since I've been with conservative, anti-gay people my whole life, I haven't had much experience with gay people (is that the right term, to say "gay people"?). I've heard that someone is *born* gay, but I've also heard like sometimes girls go lesbian if they were abused by men. Soo how does this all work?? If someone is born gay, does that mean something in their brain is wired differently than a "straight" person?

I genuinely want to know. lol

I don't know anything about brain chemistry or whatever, but I can assure you that being gay is not a choice. From what I can tell, homosexuality isn't due to one thing, it's probably a mix of factors genetic and environmental (for example, I've heard that the more older brother a boy has, the more likely he is to be gay due to various hormone levels in the mother's uterus). Also, sexuality is a spectrum and where a person is along that spectrum can change throughout their life, but that doesn't mean the person consciously (or even subconsciously) contributed to that change.

Also, it's important to point out that being attracted to somebody is different than doing physical things with them. I know a lot of straight girls who will make out with other straight girls when they're drunk, but that doesn't mean that they're gay.

I think the bottom line is that people are attracted to who they are attracted to and there is nothing they can do about it. And they shouldn't have to. And I'm sure that as an escaped fundie daughter, you can relate to the fact that nobody should be forced to hide their true selves or suppress the things that make them different.

Sorry if this doesn't remotely address your question.

[raineymott]

What about people who have grown up in a house like mine, where homosexuality is so completely not tolerated...perhaps would someone not even realize they are gay/lesbian/bi? I wasn't even really sexually aware until I was 22. I'm sure I'm not the only person who was like that. I wonder if it happens to guys too? Like, someone may be gay/lesbian but aren't even sexually aware enough to realize it because it is such a forbidden topic?

[oscar]

What about people who have grown up in a house like mine, where homosexuality is so completely not tolerated...perhaps would someone not even realize they are gay/lesbian/bi? I wasn't even really sexually aware until I was 22. I'm sure I'm not the only person who was like that. I wonder if it happens to guys too? Like, someone may be gay/lesbian but aren't even sexually aware enough to realize it because it is such a forbidden topic?

raineymott, I have a good friend who grew up in a very conservative, insular Evangelical household. He didn't realize he was sexually attracted to men until he was in his late twenties. He convinced himself that the crushes he'd developed on other men were actually brotherly camaraderie, or simple admiration, because the idea of being gay was beyond inconceivable.

He spent several years after that trying to convince himself that being sexually attracted to men was a necessary condition, but not a sufficient condition, for being gay. That is, he could feel attraction to other men, but as long as he didn't act on this attraction or identify with "gay culture" in any way, he wouldn't have to be gay.

My friend is now in his mid-thirties, and he's never been in a relationship with anyone. He now admits he's gay, but he is so afraid of losing his family that he won't consider dating another man. He thinks it's fine for other people to be gay, but really struggles with his own identity. It's so sad.

[lilwriter85]

I have heard various theories about why people are gay. Some theories are a bit crazy. Many years ago, some people in the psychology field had the theory that dominant mothers caused homosexuality in men. I grew up in predominately Catholic town and there were rumors that a lesbian in the town became a lesbian because she was raped or abused by an uncle. Those were rumors and nobody ever really knew the truth.

I don't believe being gay or lesbian is a choice. People can't help who are they are attracted to and most of the time nothing influences their attractions.

[valsa]

I think most people do know what they are, sexually, around puberty. Some rare people are late bloomers or are asexual and may not know into their 20s (or beyond)

I'm bisexual. I knew I liked girls when I was around 5 or 6 years old (before I even knew what a lesbian was) It definitely wasn't a choice. As for women to "turn lesbian" after being abused- human sexuality is a spectrum, not a black-or-white on/off switch. Some women may feel they can no longer trust men after being severely hurt by them, and may turn to other women to fulfill their romantic and sexual needs. This doesn't necessarily mean that they're lesbian, just like men who have sex with other men in jail aren’t necessarily gay. On the flip side, homosexual men and women who (usually under religious pressure and guilt) get married to someone of the opposite sex and have kids aren't any less gay for doing that.

[lilwriter85]

What about people who have grown up in a house like mine, where homosexuality is so completely not tolerated...perhaps would someone not even realize they are gay/lesbian/bi? I wasn't even really sexually aware until I was 22. I'm sure I'm not the only person who was like that. I wonder if it happens to guys too? Like, someone may be gay/lesbian but aren't even sexually aware enough to realize it because it is such a forbidden topic?

I have known a few people who grew up in strict religious homes in which their parents drilled to them to not tolerate homosexuality. One of the people is a friend I grew up with and her family attended the same Catholic church as my family did. As a teenager, she dated a couple of boys but was never really happy with them and she realized she really had no intense attractions to males. She did research online and with books which helped her accept herself as a lesbian. She did come out of the closet in high school to her parents which caused problems for several years. Now she and her parents get along well. Her parents are still practicing Catholics.

[raineymott]

Thank you all for your answers! I think in conservative circles, for the most part they believe being gay/lesbian/bi is a sort of disease...not something you're born with. Of course they have lots of reasons for it...but you can't really get around a 5 or 6 year old liking girls before knowing what a lesbian was!

[valsa]

I've said it before here, but I think it bears repeating- if someone thinks that homosexuality is a choice, they weren't all that straight to begin with. Most people I've asked, who are attracted to only the opposite sex, can't make themselves no longer be attracted to the opposite sex and only be attracted to the same sex.

I think a lot of "homosexuality is a choice" nuts just need to accept that people of the same sex occasionally get them all hot and bothered.

[pomology]

I've said it before here, but I think it bears repeating- if someone thinks that homosexuality is a choice, they weren't all that straight to begin with. Most people I've asked, who are attracted to only the opposite sex, can't make themselves no longer be attracted to the opposite sex and only be attracted to the same sex.

I think a lot of "homosexuality is a choice" nuts just need to accept that people of the same sex occasionally get them all hot and bothered.

Yeah. I dig the theory that people who say homosexuality is a choice are actually bi and therefore really are making a choice only to act on their attractions to people of the opposite sex.

Because nobody I know chooses who they're attracted to.

[ricky_ticky]

I believe that people are born with an innate sexual preference, and it is not black and white/either or. Sexuality is a spectrum with many many variables and some people are not just "straight" or "gay."

The married lesbian couples that I know claim to know the sexual preference of a child at about the same time one can tell if they are right handed or left handed. This does not always predict behavior, however, since there can be subtle characteristics of sexuality and lots of social pressures that may have an impact. My close female friend has had two wives after dating numerous men and being married heterosexually in her youth.

I remember twenty years ago when I told one of my gay friends that I couldn't care less that he was gay and he said, "I know! That's so cool!" People just want to be accepted regardless of sexual orientation.

[BlackHawk]

What about people who have grown up in a house like mine, where homosexuality is so completely not tolerated...perhaps would someone not even realize they are gay/lesbian/bi? I wasn't even really sexually aware until I was 22. I'm sure I'm not the only person who was like that. I wonder if it happens to guys too? Like, someone may be gay/lesbian but aren't even sexually aware enough to realize it because it is such a forbidden topic?

I grew up in a household where homosexuality was not, and is not, tolerated. My parents pretend my life partner and my relationship isn't what it is. We are two gay men... and honestly, I wouldn't choose this. I spent quite a few years praying that God would make me a better person and I would be absolved of the "sins of my father" so I wouldn't be gay. I tried liking people I was "supposed" to like and honestly, I was sad. Very sad.

I personally think sexuality is a sliding scale. I am a 5, very gay with no conscious attraction to women, but my partner is a 3, bisexual. Being gay, in my humble opinion, is NOT a choice. Who would choose to be ridiculed, kicked from their home, beaten up constantly, made fun of, or otherwise shunned? No one is that much a glutton for punishment.

That's my 2 cents as a gay man raised in a fundie-lite household who's parents can't stand him.

:D

[raineymott]

I grew up in a household where homosexuality was not, and is not, tolerated. My parents pretend my life partner and my relationship isn't what it is. We are two gay men... and honestly, I wouldn't choose this. I spent quite a few years praying that God would make me a better person and I would be absolved of the "sins of my father" so I wouldn't be gay. I tried liking people I was "supposed" to like and honestly, I was sad. Very sad.

I personally think sexuality is a sliding scale. I am a 5, very gay with no conscious attraction to women, but my partner is a 3, bisexual. Being gay, in my humble opinion, is NOT a choice. Who would choose to be ridiculed, kicked from their home, beaten up constantly, made fun of, or otherwise shunned? No one is that much a glutton for punishment.

That's my 2 cents as a gay man raised in a fundie-lite household who's parents can't stand him.

:D

Thanks! I'm sorry there is such a prejudice against LBGT people! (Hey, I'm not even a lesbian and my parents can't stand me ;) Lol)

[Austin]

(Hey, I'm not even a lesbian and my parents can't stand me ;) Lol)

Their loss!

[DistantStar]

I was eleven when I found out I was (well, almost entirely) straight -- my brother had a babysitter who had a really hot boyfriend and upon meeting him I had my first physical attraction to a guy. I wonder what he's up to these days; he was really nice, too. Hmm. Al, if you're out there, really it was all very innocent, but dayum! It's a compliment, trust me, I'm 35 and still think of you fondly.

I tend to think that sexuality is innate. Even it it weren't, I wouldn't care. But I know I didn't just up and decide one day that I liked men, it was more like I got whacked in the head by a two-by-four. My rare attraction to women is far more surprising, though it doesn't bother me at all. I assume that gay people have similar experiences, and bi people as well. Whatever.

[clarinetpower]

BlackHawk, I'm sorry your parents are such dicks.

[BlackHawk]

BlackHawk, I'm sorry your parents are such dicks.

Meh my parents are interesting people, but really I'm better off where I am now then under their authority.

[doggie]

sexual attraction and what turns you on is so complex is not funny. I am sorry but the guys in the bible did not have it all figured out. I mean do you think pedophiles want to be attracted to children? Yes hookers and abused woman can turn to other woman but thats a whole other ballgame.

The problem is people try to use the bible to explain something thats far more complex then the bible it's self. I want to tell them ok gay is a choice then turn gay for 5 minutes and let me know how it feels.

but god seems to like gay since there are over 150 species of gay animals.

[raineymott]

but god seems to like gay since there are over 150 species of gay animals.

Really? what are a few? I had no idea. lol

[doggie]

I goofed it should be 1500 species. shame on god going against what he wrote in the bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual ... in_animals

[raineymott]

I goofed it should be 1500 species. shame on god going against what he wrote in the bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual ... in_animals

Wow, interesting! Thanks for the link.

[JesusFightClub]

Raine, it's so cool you want to find out about such things. I'll be watching this thread closely because I have no idea either!

I am reluctant to share much on intarwebz because I am still trying to figure the whole business out personally. But I suspect as another poster said, it's just a spectrum and at different times we may move about on it and such. Frankly, I dunno.

(Sorry, that wasn't very helpful!)

[MamaJunebug]

Hey, raineymott, puddin'!!

I'm so glad you asked. I've been itchin' to tell some of my family stories. Especially since, last Sunday, my pastor - who I otherwise like a lot - made a point of beamoaning "gay marriage" as a horrible sin, in the sermon.

I grew up around 8 older, boy cousins. None of them could've given a nickel about me except for ... Dougie. We'll call him Dougie. ;) There's a home movie of him at age 11, playing patiently and gently with me, barely a one-year-old.

He was always nice to me. When I was 11, he and his dad came back from a trip to Europe. His dad - a boozy old railroad worker - said in frustration, "I took him to *Amsterdam! I said, 'Doug, boy, there's a girl in the window waving at you!' He said, 'Oh, hi!' and he waved to her!"

(Amsterdam is known for its legal prostitution. Prostitutes stand or sit in windows and wave at prospective customers. I don't mean to belittle you by explaining this, I'm just never sure what people know. :) )

I remember clearly wanting to say (but for once, being smart enough not to), "Oh, Uncle, don't worry. Dougie's going to find a nice man and be his wife, like Mr. Brown and Mr. White back home." See, when I was several years younger, I asked my mother one day who lived in the houses across the street. When she said Mr. Brown and Mr. White lived in the second house, I asked where their wives were, and she chuckled and said, "Oh, they're each other's wives. They take care of each other."

So, long story short, I always knew Dougie was going to marry a nice man. Which he did.

Meanwhile, my aunts and uncles weren't so sanguine. My single aunt, the teacher, even said it was my dad's "fault, you should've played ball with him more." That was a fun scene. Srsly. I remember my mom speaking up to my aunt, probably the only time in her life she did. She said, "What about Dougie's father? Don't you blame my husband!!"

But I digress. That very same aunt never married. My mom was quite a bit younger than she and remembered that she artlessly asked her, "Why are you still single?" when Mom was 20 and Aunt was about 36.

Aunt made some dismissive remark about the only man in the world worthy of her affections being President Roosevelt (or somebody) and that was that. In reetrospect, I believe Aunt was fully female, but as far as sexual attraction and sexual went? Asexual. Without sexual impulses or attractions to anybody, male or female.

But yeah, she wasn't happy about Dougie's love life, though he was her favorite in many ways, for many of the same reasons he is mine. He's just such a sweet guy!

My point is that, right there in my otherwise fertile, heterosexual family are a boy who was never anything but gay and a girl (woman) who was never anything.

And yet both were (are) productive, happy members of society. My aunt taught for 50 years, loved every minute of it. Dougie has been with his guy for nearly 35 years. They were very active in establishing a gay social club in their famously non-gay city. One of the tenets of membership is that nobody forces anything on anybody at a club get-together.

That had Dougie's influence through and through.

But I digress again. And I again echo what others have said in far fewer words. it just happens how it happens.

But you know, either tomorrow or some time this week, I'm gonna sit down with Pastor and ask him about what he finds so odious about gay marriage. And of course I'm gonna tell him about Dougie and Mr(s). Dougie, see what he says about that. Because AFAIK, while I doubt Dougie's a church-goer, I can't imagine him not still being a believer in Christ.

(You asked me the time, I told you how to build a clock. I do that, sometime. :doh: )