Lyndsie and Daniel got another baby ALREADY???

[luckylibrarian]

I understand that some of you are bitter, but I sense a lot of overreaction and unnecessary jealousy here. I wish them all the best. I understand the cancer risk, but I'd rather let them have the babies than a LOT of other fundies or even fundy-lites.

Uh..no. Nice of you to just jump into the thread after only being here for a few months and accuse people of overreacting and being jealous. Why don't you read the threads on the old board and get the background on the situation before judging everyone? Go read some of the posts on this and other threads from women who have experienced disrupted adoptions or miscarriages and then tell me if you think they are overreacting or acting out of "unnecessary jealousy." Bullshit.

[Jessica]

Ugh, this irks me. I had two failed adoptions and an ectopic pregnancy before I got pregnant with my son. I worked my ass off at three jobs to make money for those adoptions. I didn't sit around on my lazy backside expecting everyone else to pay for it. To make matters worse, I just suffered a miscarriage last month. Why is it that I have to work myself to the bone and suffer ectopic pregnancies, miscarriages, and interrupted adoptions and Lyndsie can just snap her fingers and get everything she wants? It's frustrating.

Yes, that. Meanwhile... rosylittlethings.typepad.com/posie_gets_cozy/2011/11/well-things-fell-apart.html (keep tissues nearby)

[Deleted03]

Yes, that. Meanwhile... rosylittlethings.typepad.com/posie_gets_cozy/2011/11/well-things-fell-apart.html (keep tissues nearby)

This is so sad. I hope this dad steps up to the plate and takes care of this little girl. I also hope they find another child for them to adopt.

PS: However, I still think Illinois' law makes more sense than Oregon's do. but that's out of this issue.

[Alecto]

Yes, that. Meanwhile... rosylittlethings.typepad.com/posie_gets_cozy/2011/11/well-things-fell-apart.html (keep tissues nearby)

Horrible story, but at the same time, fathers do have rights to their children.... and shame on their social worker and/or lawyer for not preparing them.

[NothingLeftToLose]

I have some kids - some are adopted, some are biological. Adoption is messy, painful, and involves heartbreak and loss. I cannot stand when people like her that act like a baby just fell out of the sky because God loves her.

What the fuck is up with people coming to a snark board and telling us not to snark? smh

[treemom]

Normally I think it's really cruel how some birth mothers can promise a child and then pull out at the last second. But after hearing about that woman - writing the baby's name in the sand? Pictures of themselves in pink clothes, monogrammed crap? Yeah, I think I'd pull back my offer too. Those people are so in love with themselves, I don't see how there is much left for the kids. It's like they are their latest toys - like, see my new purse? Ick. Just, ick.

And if they are on one income and took that many professional photos - holy crap, can you imagine what that must have cost? They are probably in debt up to their eyeballs but claiming it's all from God.

I can't see it as cruel when they are the mother until they relinquish. It is a case of hard decisions all the way around.

[darkplumaged]

Yes, that. Meanwhile... rosylittlethings.typepad.com/posie_gets_cozy/2011/11/well-things-fell-apart.html (keep tissues nearby)

Jessica, I've been thinking about Alicia the whole time I've been reading this thread.

I just can't understand how Lyndsie adopted two babies in less time than most adoptive parents wait for one. Of course, we will never learn the true story, or even an abbreviated version of it. Nope, those babies are FROM GOD!1!!1!!!, and that's all there is to it. :roll:

(I'm bitter on behalf of everyone who would die to have kids and can't, and jealous because nothing in my life has ever been that easy. I'm not one who thinks she's "entitled" to a bed-of-roses life because she had cancer.)

[onlyorganic]

I cannot believe she recycled the name Aubrey.

This. I think it's uber weird when people get stuck on one name and like have to have a baby with that name. But, in Lyndsie's case it's incredibly creepy considering that "Aubrey" actually existed to her until the adoption fell through... so, um yeah... the baby Aubrey with her name makes her seem less of a little person and more of an named accessory a la a Coach bag.

[polabear]

In my neighborhood, there is a family who adopted from Oregon, because of Illinois' paternity rights. They suggested we do the same.

[Guest Anonymous]

Horrible story, but at the same time, fathers do have rights to their children.... and shame on their social worker and/or lawyer for not preparing them.

This.

It is exceptionally sad that the couple were unprepared for what might happen, but still a strong sense of entitlement and a disregard for the infant's perspective came over in the writing. Who is to say that the growing child will ultimately feel that being placed with a couple with a nice home and privileged lifestyle is compensation enough for being uprooted from her living birth parents? My heart lifted at the thought of her father coming forward, and not least because it might mean that the birth mother also might not need to relinquish her rights completely, and may be able in future years to give the child the love that she wishes for her, in person, rather than through 'gifting' her to a couple randomly found in the blogosphere.

[Austin]

This.

It is exceptionally sad that the couple were unprepared for what might happen, but still a strong sense of entitlement and a disregard for the infant's perspective came over in the writing. Who is to say that the growing child will ultimately feel that being placed with a couple with a nice home and privileged lifestyle is compensation enough for being uprooted from her living birth parents? My heart lifted at the thought of her father coming forward, and not least because it might mean that the birth mother also might not need to relinquish her rights completely, and may be able in future years to give the child the love that she wishes for her, in person, rather than through 'gifting' her to a couple randomly found in the blogosphere.

I agree. I would hate to think that one of my sons would not be afforded the opportunity to raise his own child should the mother decide she didn't want to (hopefully, they will never go down that road, but YKWIM).

[Angri-la]

In my neighborhood, there is a family who adopted from Oregon, because of Illinois' paternity rights. They suggested we do the same.

My SIL lives in Illinois and had a much easier time than I did adopting, and she had cancer, but was in remission 5+ years. Weird. It isn't exactly fun to adopt in Oregon. I didn't have to worry about paternity with mine, but her "bio-mom" (I refuse to call that woman anything else) wouldn't have been able to have narrowed my daughter's father down to a dozen men. True story. Also, she made it quite clear that she never again wants to know of my daughter's existence. That's going to be a hard conversation someday.

[Hisey]

Adoption is about finding homes for babies and children who need homes, not about finding babies for parents. The way Lyndsie and Daniel went about this was finding babies for them. Do you honestly believe these two babies would be in a bad position, given for every baby there are a hundred or more potential adopters? Potential adopters with better health potential in all likelihood. We know nothing about these babies' mothers, and fathers. Often these parents could do just as good a job of raising their babies. They might have been coerced by their own parents. And maybe they did freely choose to place their children but that doesn't mean they'd have been bad parents. And I'd like to know, in Lyndsie and Daniel's adoptions, if the fathers also signed the relinquishment papers. Too many private adoptions, and even some agency adoptions as in the Baby emma Wyatt case, totally ignore the fathers. A father has rights too.

The baby girl is like a doll to Lyndsie, and I worry the little boy will suffer for attention. I hope to God if they agreed to some degree of openess with the parents, and that they comply with what they said they'd do. My 3 children are adopted, they are adults, they know their birth parents, that is their right and one they wanted. Not every adoptee wants a relationship with their birth parents but if they do no one has the right to deny them that.

Well, we agree that adoption is about finding homes for kids (as I said earlier).

However, you think Lyndsie and Daniel went about this with the wrong attitude. They should be thinking--how can we find the best home for this child? -- without worrying about what they want. You say they were just thinking about themselves. Maybe so. I'm an adoptive parent (and I think you are, too). Did you provide your kid's birthmother with an apartment, an income and a job so she could keep her baby? Well, neither did I (in our case, we didn't know the birth mother).

Of course adoptive parents--Lyndsie and Daniel, you and I-- are doing something that is good us, good for the child, and hopefully good for the birthmother. And we are doing what the birth mother wants to do. It's not a perfect situation, obviously, but there it is.

As for the birthmother in this case, of course she could have been a good mother. But she chose not to mother. We don't know she was being coerced (there are social workers to root that stuff out, but of course, families often keep this secret). I don't think we should infantalize her by assuming she coudln't make a good decision. I hate when birthmothers are treated so disrespectfully. Using the facts provided, she chose not to parent her child. Yes, all sort of bad things could have been at play. But I'm not going to assume they were simply because I have a bias against L and D. I'm going to hope for the best all around (and you should too, if you care about the children involved).

Most domestic private adoptions are open ones, nowadays. I hope for the child's sake that this one is. If the birthmother chose to have a closed adoption--well, that says something, doesn't it? If she chose to have an open one (and I'll bet this is what occurred, since she probably had her pick of many adoptive parents), then that is great for the baby.

That baby was living in a home where the birthmother couldn't/didn't want to/was unable to parent. That is a bad situation for a baby. Now that baby is in a home where the parents can/want to/are able to parent. I think that is a good outcome, not perfect, but good.

[Hisey]

This.

It is exceptionally sad that the couple were unprepared for what might happen, but still a strong sense of entitlement and a disregard for the infant's perspective came over in the writing. Who is to say that the growing child will ultimately feel that being placed with a couple with a nice home and privileged lifestyle is compensation enough for being uprooted from her living birth parents? My heart lifted at the thought of her father coming forward, and not least because it might mean that the birth mother also might not need to relinquish her rights completely, and may be able in future years to give the child the love that she wishes for her, in person, rather than through 'gifting' her to a couple randomly found in the blogosphere.

You can turn that around to0. Who is to say that being with your birth father is worth giving up a stable home, loving adoptive parents, and a comfortable environment? If the father is a bad parent (violent, abuser, neglectful) then does blood really make everything OK.

Best case scenario, of course, is having the child living with his birth parents, who care for him properly.

[Guest Anonymous]

You can turn that around to0. Who is to say that being with your birth father is worth giving up a stable home, loving adoptive parents, and a comfortable environment? If the father is a bad parent (violent, abuser, neglectful) then does blood really make everything OK.

Best case scenario, of course, is having the child living with his birth parents, who care for him properly.

Did we read the same blog entry?

Social Services do very often 'turn around' situations where abused children are taken into care and matched up with loving adoptive families and I think that is a wonderful thing. But in this situation, the blog entry to which my post referred provided no evidence that the birth father had been proved to be a 'bad parent'.

[Alecto]

You can turn that around to0. Who is to say that being with your birth father is worth giving up a stable home, loving adoptive parents, and a comfortable environment? If the father is a bad parent (violent, abuser, neglectful) then does blood really make everything OK.

Best case scenario, of course, is having the child living with his birth parents, who care for him properly.

I happen to know some specifics about how custody arrangements like this work where the mother is incarcerated. The father will still have to go to court to get permanent custody from CPS since the mother is incarcerated. The father will likely have CPS involvement for quite a while, so they will be on the lookout for him being appropriate.

Now, this is not "Oh the poor menz!" I am a big big supporter of father's rights, because frequently they have to fight for even seeing their child. The mother was incarcerated, and so it is really hard to gauge how involved this man would have been with her pregnancy if she were not. There is also the factor that he may or may not have known she was pregnant until after.

I support that women have a right to do with their bodies as they wish BEFORE birth, but once that child is born, it has two parents, and both parents should have rights and equal say unless one parent proves they are incapable of making good decisions for their child.

[Feberin]

That baby was living in a home where the birthmother couldn't/didn't want to/was unable to parent. That is a bad situation for a baby. Now that baby is in a home where the parents can/want to/are able to parent. I think that is a good outcome, not perfect, but good.

I think most of us aren't thinking "oh it would have been better if the birth mother kept a child she didn't want" but we're thinking "these were the best adoptive parents she could find"! I really think they had to know the birth mother or have a connection through friends because I don't think Dan and Lyndsie would be the couple picked out of a list of potential parents. They're young, she has no college or job skills, her history with cancer without being in remission for long, their short marriage, shaky finances, home churching, obcession with everything looking awesome and they have a toddler already! I would think a well established couple in their early thirties that both parents were working and having a clean bill of health would look a lot more stable. And it's not that I want the baby to go to the birth mother who didn't want it but that I wish the birth mother had chosen a couple more prepared to parent that baby.

[Bella99]

I think most of us aren't thinking "oh it would have been better if the birth mother kept a child she didn't want" but we're thinking "these were the best adoptive parents she could find"! I really think they had to know the birth mother or have a connection through friends because I don't think Dan and Lyndsie would be the couple picked out of a list of potential parents. They're young, she has no college or job skills, her history with cancer without being in remission for long, their short marriage, shaky finances, home churching, obcession with everything looking awesome and they have a toddler already! I would think a well established couple in their early thirties that both parents were working and having a clean bill of health would look a lot more stable. And it's not that I want the baby to go to the birth mother who didn't want it but that I wish the birth mother had chosen a couple more prepared to parent that baby.

This!

[Hope]

Someone is probably funding the adoptions for them, a parent, or other relative. And who knows, maybe they have a trust fund or something and decided to fundraise anyway. It's pretty common with adoptions these days. When we were considering it, we planned on paying for everything ourselves. We were lucky and insurance covered IVF and it worked.

[clibbyjo]

This. I think it's uber weird when people get stuck on one name and like have to have a baby with that name. But, in Lyndsie's case it's incredibly creepy considering that "Aubrey" actually existed to her until the adoption fell through... so, um yeah... the baby Aubrey with her name makes her seem less of a little person and more of an named accessory a la a Coach bag.

This kind of bothers me as well. My first pregnancy ended in miscarriage at age 14 weeks. I knew it was a boy from the beginning and already chose Cameron for his name. When I had my first son serveral years later, I still liked that name, but I felt Cameron was taken and could not recycle it.

[emmiedahl]

My SIL lives in Illinois and had a much easier time than I did adopting, and she had cancer, but was in remission 5+ years. Weird. It isn't exactly fun to adopt in Oregon. I didn't have to worry about paternity with mine, but her "bio-mom" (I refuse to call that woman anything else) wouldn't have been able to have narrowed my daughter's father down to a dozen men. True story. Also, she made it quite clear that she never again wants to know of my daughter's existence. That's going to be a hard conversation someday.

With my youngest sister, the birth mother did not even know the father's race. There were a lot of candidates without names, and I doubt any of them would have contested the adoption. It was an open adoption in which the birth mother visited and came to family events, but the birth mother just fell off the radar and stopped contacting after several years. I think my sister would love to find her; she vaguely remembers her, but we can't dig her up with normal Googling. We have fun speculating about dad's race because L has some ethnic features that could really be anything, and they do not come from the blonde mother.

If the birth father is involved and wants the baby, I have mixed feelings. What if he abused the mother or whatever? In my sister's case, the father was a john trading money or (more likely) drugs for sex, and I think L had a much better childhood in my family home than she would have had in a crack house. But if my son got a girl pregnant and wanted to keep the baby, I would support him in being a single dad and fight to the death for his parental rights. Adoption is difficult to regulate because we are dealing with a very imperfect situation from the get-go.

[lilwriter85]

I think most of us aren't thinking "oh it would have been better if the birth mother kept a child she didn't want" but we're thinking "these were the best adoptive parents she could find"! I really think they had to know the birth mother or have a connection through friends because I don't think Dan and Lyndsie would be the couple picked out of a list of potential parents. They're young, she has no college or job skills, her history with cancer without being in remission for long, their short marriage, shaky finances, home churching, obcession with everything looking awesome and they have a toddler already! I would think a well established couple in their early thirties that both parents were working and having a clean bill of health would look a lot more stable. And it's not that I want the baby to go to the birth mother who didn't want it but that I wish the birth mother had chosen a couple more prepared to parent that baby.

Good point there about the birth mother possible having connections to Daniel and Lyndsie through friends or other sources. I have to agree, a 30 something couple with good finances and clean bill of health would definitely be more stable and some birth moms would have chosen a couple like that over Daniel and Lyndsie. Like I mentioned before in previous posts, I can see other birth moms rejecting them because of Lyndsie's lack of education and job skills.

[slickcat79]

I cannot believe she recycled the name Aubrey.

Do you think, when little Aubrey Faye (is that a nod to Tammy Faye's mad makeup skillz??) asks her mom how she came to be named, Lyndsie will tell her the truth?

Yeah, that. It seems like if you choose to give a child a name before the child is really yours yet, whether that's an unborn child or a non-finalized adoption or whatever, you're doing it because you feel a connection to THAT child. Because you want to help make your relationship more real. Reusing a name you gave to a child that you lost is worse than the Jana/Joy-Anna/Johannah thing that the Duggars and some other fundie families have going on.

[Vex]

Also, she made it quite clear that she never again wants to know of my daughter's existence. That's going to be a hard conversation someday.

It might not be as hard as you think.

I am adopted (something my parents were always open with), and though my bio-mother had tried to get me back after the adoption had gone through I always knew nothing of my bio-father except that the minute my bio-mother told him she was pregnant, he told her he didn't want to know, didn't care, and he in fact left town shortly after to make sure she wouldn't bother him.

To this day, he is a non-entity to me. It didn't make me feel any less loved or wanted knowing what I did because I knew how very much my adoptive parents had loved and wanted me. They're the people who raised me, so who cares what my biological parents, who amount to little more than genetic donors, thought about me?

Alicia's story broke my heart. She and her husband are the sweetest people, and I think they would be amazing parents. Lyndsie has always rubbed me the wrong way, and this second baby is just too much for me. I think I've crossed over from strong dislike to active loathing. To have named an actual, living being and then to recycle the name? Not okay. To add another baby so soon after adopting one? Not okay. Their son is old enough to know the difference between the attention he was getting and the attention he's going to get after the second baby.

It seems to me that Aubry is just another accessory for Lyndsie. Seeing that pearl bracelet on the tiny newborn baby's wrist just drove home how much Lyndsie wanted a doll rather than a child.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

They looks super duper happy. Would love to know the adoption story...

Am not surprised they used the same name, my Mum always knew she wanted to name her first daughter Elspeth after her Mum who died when she was 3, she was pregnant with a girl, named her Elspeth Rose, miscarried at 20 weeks-& then 12 months later gave birth to Elspeth Kate.

I dont see a problem with it. It's not like she ever KNEW the first baby.

edited as missing a word....blaming it on the brain cells i killed at the work xmas party last night. oww.