'He is keeping her in church'

[BravaAmica]

I completely get what you are saying. Some people feel weird about eating in restaurants alone,and some feel weird about going to church alone. I would feel odd about going to a chruch by myself where I didn't know anyone. I can almost promise you that if you did decide to attend church alone that you would make friends quickly and you wouldn't feel uncomfortable after a few Sundays.

I prefer going to church alone. I just don't like to mix my social life with my church family. I also don't mind eating in restaurants alone, going to movies alone or shopping alone (although I prefer company for the latter things, but I don't mind going it solo if I have to).

[Witsec1]

I totally get not wanting to go into a social situation alone, esp. one where most people are with their families or know each other already. But I would say" I'm glad you found someone to go to church with" not "I'm glad you found someone to keep you in church". But you're right, if this is a regional expression I'm not fully grasping how it works in that context.

[SouthCarolinaGirl79]

I prefer going to church alone. I just don't like to mix my social life with my church family. I also don't mind eating in restaurants alone, going to movies alone or shopping alone (although I prefer company for the latter things, but I don't mind going it solo if I have to).

And you're from NC? Didn't you know that your social life is supposed to be with your church family? Bless your little heart! lol What part of NC? We vacation around Boone several times a year, but we live about an hour and a half south of Charlotte.

[Renting with Raggles]

SouthCarolinaGirl79:

It's the modality of the verb 'keeping' that is very striking to an outsider who never heard this regional expression.

In Australia, we might say: "The doctors are keeping him in hospital for observation." This would imply that someone, probably the patient, had felt well enough to return home, but an authority figure prevented them from doing so. We wouldn't say something along the along the lines of: "We are keeping our daughter in university for the present."

When I first read the title of the thread I seriously thought this was a hostage situation.

Do Southerners in the US use this for non-church related situations?

[SouthCarolinaGirl79]

I totally get not wanting to go into a social situation alone, esp. one where most people are with their families or know each other already. But I would say" I'm glad you found someone to go to church with" not "I'm glad you found someone to keep you in church". But you're right, if this is a regional expression I'm not fully grasping how it works in that context.

You're right. The expression isn't used if someone who has never been a church goer decides to start attending or if someone is going to a new church with a friend. The expression is only used when someone who was a church goer stopped attending church because they sinned or lost their faith and has now decided to start attending church again. I'm just making the point that Julie's mother is using the expression because her daughter is back in church after "living in sin." She isn't using it because her new son-in-law is controlling her daughter to make her attend church. The SIL my be controlling- I have no clue about that. I'm just letting you know that this is a common figure of speech and we shouldn't read too much into it.

[BravaAmica]

And you're from NC? Didn't you know that your social life is supposed to be with your church family? Bless your little heart! lol What part of NC? We vacation around Boone several times a year, but we live about an hour and a half south of Charlotte.

I'm from Charlotte originally. Boone is gorgeous!

[Bella99]

I think we need a new thread re doing things alone. When I was younger I felt uncomfortable doing things alone. Now that I'm older I'm pretty much over it. To the point where I actually prefer to go in for surgery alone and have done it that way 4 times in spite of having people I could call on. The things I really want company for are things I used to do with my best friend before she died: sewing, cooking, pottery and making crazy Halloween costumes.

Unbalanced, one of the better things I did was force myself to do things alone. Visit a few congregations and see where you feel most at home.

[BravaAmica]

SouthCarolinaGirl79:

It's the modality of the verb 'keeping' that is very striking to an outsider who never heard this regional expression.

In Australia, we might say: "The doctors are keeping him in hospital for observation." This would imply that someone, probably the patient, had felt well enough to return home, but an authority figure prevented them from doing so. We wouldn't say something along the along the lines of: "We are keeping our daughter in university for the present."

When I first read the title of the thread I seriously thought this was a hostage situation.

Do Southerners in the US use this for non-church related situations?

Yes. To wit, "I'm keeping my sister's baby so she can get her hair done." (Translation: I'm babysitting my nephew so my sister can go to the salon.") Or, "I'll keep your kids for you. You go on out with your husband."

[SouthCarolinaGirl79]

SouthCarolinaGirl79:

It's the modality of the verb 'keeping' that is very striking to an outsider who never heard this regional expression.

In Australia, we might say: "The doctors are keeping him in hospital for observation." This would imply that someone, probably the patient, had felt well enough to return home, but an authority figure prevented them from doing so. We wouldn't say something along the along the lines of: "We are keeping our daughter in university for the present."

When I first read the title of the thread I seriously thought this was a hostage situation.

Do Southerners in the US use this for non-church related situations?

That is so amazing to me that you would read it as a hostage situation. To the best of my knowledge, we do not use for non-chuch related situations. Before stumbling onto this post, I had no clue that that this was a regional expression, but obviously it is. If you are a church going person in the South, this expression has a very positive connotation. Just like the example I gave of the man who attended my church and stopped after he committed adultery and his wife divorced him. His parents were thrilled when he later fell in love with a church going woman and since he was now attending her church in another town, his mother told people at my church that he had fallen in love again and was getting his life back together in part because his new love was "keeping him in church."

[SouthCarolinaGirl79]

Yes. To wit, "I'm keeping my sister's baby so she can get her hair done." (Translation: I'm babysitting my nephew so my sister can go to the salon.") Or, "I'll keep your kids for you. You go on out with your husband."

You're right! I hadn't thought about that because I was trying to think of an example where someone might mistakenly think the verb keep was being used in place of force.

[SouthCarolinaGirl79]

This might be a Southern thing too, but I don't know. We use the word keep to refer to food that needs to set up/firm up before we eat. Ex. The dumplings are too soupy right now; they need to keep before we eat them. It can also be used for food spoilage. Ex. Make sure you put the cake in the fridge. It won't keep on the counter in this heat. My favorite usage refers to things not lasting or changing soon. Ex. You had better rock that baby now, and dust your house later. Babies don't keep.

[NurseNell]

I'm from NC originally (although I don't often admit to that in public). I can vouch for this idiom- I heard it a lot growing up. I also heard the following:

Waitress: What would you like to drink?

Customer: A coke

Waitress: What kind?

Customer: Mountain Dew/ Pepsi/ Co-cola (for Coca-cola)/ 7up {insert brand name here}

"Coke" is used like one would use "klennex" or "xerox."

When we moved to Alabama this happened to me, I ordered a coke and the waitress said what kind? I said coke. What kind of coke? Just regular coke please. LOL, it was like who's on first. :lol: The other thing was tea. Now I'm a yankee so when I order tea I expect hot tea, that's what I always got in the north. The waitress brought me iced tea. I said I want hot tea. "Well then why didn't you say so."

[SouthCarolinaGirl79]

When we moved to Alabama this happened to me, I ordered a coke and the waitress said what kind? I said coke. What kind of coke? Just regular coke please. LOL, it was like who's on first. :lol: The other thing was tea. Now I'm a yankee so when I order tea I expect hot tea, that's what I always got in the north. The waitress brought me iced tea. I said I want hot tea. "Well then why didn't you say so."

Totally true! I have lived in a small town in SC my whole life with the exception of two years at college where I roomed with and met my first yankee friend. I did not know until I met her there was such a thing as hot tea or flavored tea. Where I come from, tea is by defintion iced, sweetened with several cups of sugar. I find it odd still when people order iced tea because to me that is like asking for a round ball.

[FJSharkJump]

There's still an implied power imbalance in that example. If keeping =babysitting, the daughter kept in church by her husband is being babysat by her spouse. She is the child; he is the adult. Uh, ick!

The phrase may be something that is thought of as positive by the person who says it about their previously "wayward" (adult) son or daughter, but it isn't necessarily a positive experience for the still-treated-like-a-child person being "kept in church". Maybe they don't really want to be there, maybe they don't even believe in Jesus anymore. But to avoid being ostracized by their family, they fall back in line and do what is expected of them and then their spouse/sibling/father is thought of as "keeping them in church". Because their community deep in their hearts knows they wouldn't be back in church without the added pressure/manipulation? Sounds like some can't admit that church attendance/belief in Jesus isn't always freely chosen and authentic.

[SouthCarolinaGirl79]

There's still an implied power imbalance in that example. If keeping =babysitting, the daughter kept in church by her husband is being babysat by her spouse. She is the child; he is the adult. Uh, ick!

The phrase may be something that is thought of as positive by the person who says it about their previously "wayward" (adult) son or daughter, but it isn't necessarily a positive experience for the still-treated-like-a-child person being "kept in church". Maybe they don't really want to be there, maybe they don't even believe in Jesus anymore. But to avoid being ostracized by their family, they fall back in line and do what is expected of them and then their spouse/sibling/father is thought of as "keeping them in church". Because their community deep in their hearts knows they wouldn't be back in church without the added pressure/manipulation? Sounds like some can't admit that church attendance/belief in Jesus isn't always freely chosen and authentic.

Keeping does not equal babysitting. The other poster was just giving another example of how we use the word. I gave several examples of how Southerners use the word keep: food spoiling, something that needs to set up/firm up, or something that doesn't last forever. Keeping someone in church is just an expression. The person who is being "kept" has to make the choice to attend church again to start with. Let's say I had a friend who stopped attending church because robbed a bank and was arrested for 10 years. Then the friend gets out of jail and wants to come back to church. It's his decision. Let's say that he shows up at church and I get up and sit with him and I'm very supportive of him over the next several weeks. People would say that I was helping to keep him in church. It is used to show support and positive encouragement. Maybe Julie's daugther wants to be in church and maybe she doesn't. Her husband could be prince charming or he could be an asshole. All I'm saying is that this is just an expression.

[FJSharkJump]

I think language is more powerful than that.

keep·ing

noun

1.agreement or conformity in things or elements associated together: His actions are not in keeping with his words.

2.the act of a person or thing that keeps; observance, custody, or care.

3.maintenance or keep.

4.holding, reserving, or retaining.

I also think there is value in exploring what we might really be communicating when we use "just an expression". Who is the agent of action? Who is the subject? Who is the object? Who has the power? More specifically to this phrase, I think it is worth asking who is being kept (like a child? like a hostage? like a cheese?) and if anyone can or should be kept by another person. Do we believe, as this phrase implies, that one adult has the possession of, power over and responsibility for another adult's religious and spiritual life? Should we? What message are we sending to the person who is "kept" in this situation? I think there is a danger in writing off a phrase as "just an expression" when it can be interpreted as reflective of a hostage crisis. That says something about what those words might actually mean. And what does that say about those (loved ones) to whom those words are applied?

Maybe some think none of these questions are worth pondering or believe that how we use language doesn't really impact -- even subconsciously -- how we view ourselves and others in relation to ideas such as moral agency and self-determination. I don't know; that's hard for me to understand. C'est la vie, I guess.

[Kelya]

I think language is more powerful than that.

keep·ing

noun

1.agreement or conformity in things or elements associated together: His actions are not in keeping with his words.

2.the act of a person or thing that keeps; observance, custody, or care.

3.maintenance or keep.

4.holding, reserving, or retaining.

I also think there is value in exploring what we might really be communicating when we use "just an expression". Who is the agent of action? Who is the subject? Who is the object? Who has the power? More specifically to this phrase, I think it is worth asking who is being kept (like a child? like a hostage? like a cheese?) and if anyone can or should be kept by another person. Do we believe, as this phrase implies, that one adult has the possession of, power over and responsibility for another adult's religious and spiritual life? Should we? What message are we sending to the person who is "kept" in this situation? I think there is a danger in writing off a phrase as "just an expression" when it can be interpreted as reflective of a hostage crisis. That says something about what those words might actually mean. And what does that say about those (loved ones) to whom those words are applied?

Maybe some think none of these questions are worth pondering or believe that how we use language doesn't really impact -- even subconsciously -- how we view ourselves and others in relation to ideas such as moral agency and self-determination. I don't know; that's hard for me to understand. C'est la vie, I guess.

Oh gosh, its just an expression! Will you stop overthinking it? He's a GOOD CHRISTIAN husband keeping his GOOD CHRISTIAN wife accountable and there is nothing wrong or creepy or manipulative about it!!!!!

There! Now maybe SouthernGirl won't have to repeat herself again. She must be getting hoarse.

[FJSharkJump]

Like I said, c'est la vie.

[BravaAmica]

Totally true! I have lived in a small town in SC my whole life with the exception of two years at college where I roomed with and met my first yankee friend. I did not know until I met her there was such a thing as hot tea or flavored tea. Where I come from, tea is by defintion iced, sweetened with several cups of sugar. I find it odd still when people order iced tea because to me that is like asking for a round ball.

I have to remind myself to order "unsweet tea" in NC, or I will get a glass of tea-flavored syrup. (Unless I'm at Bojangles' then I order an iced tea and a sausage biscuit. After living in Ireland for two years, I begged my mom to meet me at the airport with some Bojangles.) Even now, in Seattle, I'll order an "unsweet tea, no lemon, blue sugar (Equal) on the side" sometimes when I'm tired.

[PennySycamore]

There's still an implied power imbalance in that example. If keeping =babysitting, the daughter kept in church by her husband is being babysat by her spouse. She is the child; he is the adult. Uh, ick!

The phrase may be something that is thought of as positive by the person who says it about their previously "wayward" (adult) son or daughter, but it isn't necessarily a positive experience for the still-treated-like-a-child person being "kept in church". Maybe they don't really want to be there, maybe they don't even believe in Jesus anymore. But to avoid being ostracized by their family, they fall back in line and do what is expected of them and then their spouse/sibling/father is thought of as "keeping them in church". Because their community deep in their hearts knows they wouldn't be back in church without the added pressure/manipulation? Sounds like some can't admit that church attendance/belief in Jesus isn't always freely chosen and authentic.

This.

I should add that I'm an old South Cackalacky gal myself and I've NEVER heard the expression "keeping her in church" before now. Maybe it's just that I don't hang with people who'd use such a phrase or who'd find it the very idea of "keeping her in church" acceptable though. And yeah, Kelya, I do find it manipulative AND creepy that a husband should keep his wife accountable.

[Kelya]

This.

I should add that I'm an old South Cackalacky gal myself and I've NEVER heard the expression "keeping her in church" before now. Maybe it's just that I don't hang with people who'd use such a phrase or who'd find it the very idea of "keeping her in church" acceptable though. And yeah, Kelya, I do find it manipulative AND creepy that a husband should keep his wife accountable.

Yeah, just to clarify, my post was above was sarcastic- SouthernGirl just keeps repeating her points, which seem to boil down to "GOOD CHRISTIANS!" and "NOT CREEPY!" and "JUST HOLDING ACCOUNTABLE!" all of which don't fly.

[FJSharkJump]

I'm very relieved to hear this. ;)

[Kelya]

I'm very relieved to hear this. ;)

:P Haha, apparently I should give up on sneaky sarcasm snarking, i don't pull it off well! Maybe I need to bold things or something...

[PennySycamore]

I'm very relieved to hear this. ;)

So am I! I was thinking that this didn't sound like at all like you, Kelya. I should have known it was snark.

[FJSharkJump]

I don't need emotional manipulation - I believe in God and have no problems with the doctrine, I just don't go. Because like I said, I don't have anyone to go with - and I'm not confident enough by myself. If I had someone to go with and encourage me to go, that would be a great thing.

I don't understand why the individuals on this board get so defensive about things that are opposite of what they are used to. If they don't line up with what you exactly think, it must be evil. The world isn't always out to get you.

I'm sorry if you don't understand - I'll just stop posting, my opinions don't seem to fit in with this board.

I stalked your other posts and you and your opinions seem to fit in just fine. So this huff on your part seems to come out of nowhere. "I don't understand why the individuals on this board get so defensive about things that are opposite of what they are used to. If they don't line up with what you exactly think, it must be evil. The world isn't always out to get you." That bit right there seems particularly over the top. Who is getting defensive here?

You seem very threatened that people would even contemplate the underlying message of a (seemingly demeaning & controlling) figure of speech. What is so horrible about having such a conversation? If a FJ conversation challenges you and asks you to consider something in a way that doesn't line up exactly with what you have always thought and believed, do you think the rest of us must be evil and out to get you? Because your thread flounce makes it seem so.

I and the other posters on this thread are having a discussion, not suffering under delusions of persecution by an evil world that is out to get us with every turn of phrase. But language does matter. Words do have power. So we're talking about that. You are welcome to join us.