Atheist student against prayer mural

[thoughtful]

I have heard various accounts implying or stating that Jefferson did not include any mention of God in the original Declaration of Independence, but that it was added when the Congress argued over editing it.

I have to admit, one of those sources was the musical 1776. :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbzmcV05 ... ge#t=6863s

But it did lead me to other sources, like this, for example:

http://candst.tripod.com/doitj.htm

Doesn't solve the problem at hand, just an interesting aside.

[thoughtful]

I have to say due to the word choice you're using, I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying correctly.

I'm saying- at the time when things were done, like when they put 10 commandments in courthouses, or making this banner, were they not doing what was accepted at the time, and not specifically as an F You, lets see how much we an get away with, aka using the "vernacular of the time"?

I'm not a history buff, I'll be honest about that. That was just my uninformed opinion. That these things were just a general way of doing things, and don't specifically have a religious connotation, a religious "you must do things our way and observe our religion" that this court case and others seem to be implying.

I posted the article that implied that this might have been a response, by people who knew it was not OK, to the law. My original post is on the second page of this thread -- here's the article again:

http://blog.au.org/2011/10/12/rhode-isl ... stitution/

"Old" and "traditional" are relative concepts -- I remember 1963, and is was not universally a time when everyone agreed about religion, or prayed as if in a Christian church. Even though I don't go back that far, I would be willing to bet that I could describe 1930 that way as well, not to mention 1850, 1410, 20 BCE . . . :D

Not to mention, having worked in schools for years, I can tell that how much "tradition" matters can be amazingly fluid, especially when money is in the offing. Pulling down every banner, dedication, and piece of art could happen in the blink of an eye if TPTB wanted to remodel or honor someone who gave a big chunk of change to the school.

Call me cynical, but I suspect that, if this request had come from that direction, rather than from a student who objects to illegal prayer in school, the banner would be in the trash, unless some sentimental soul from the class of 1963 acted fast to take it home.

[Guest Anonymous]

** Zombie thread bump alert, but I just read an article on this one. **

Update: Court rules that prayer banner must come down, alumni plan to move it to a new home.

http://www.abc6.com/story/16530730/cran ... yer-banner

Meanwhile, on twitter, douchebags continue to hurl invective and what looks an awful lot like a death threat to me. :shock:

Cranston police can suck my dick. Yes I do hate jessica alquist. Yes I do hope she dies. Yes I do wish her massive amounts of bodily harm

https://twitter.com/#!/tbauman93/status ... 8014085121

@Jessicaahlquist why don't you just die already?

https://twitter.com/#!/tbauman93/status ... 4119876609

Oh, those Christians. Aren't we supposed to know them by their misogyny love? I bet this guy would get along swimmingly with Josiah W. If the "93" in his username is an indication of his birth year, he's 18. I'm going to call that old enough to freaking know better.

I hope that Jessica stays safe, some people have clearly come unglued over this business.

**ETA: Apparently this guy engaged her on facebook a while ago as well. The WTF comment for me in that exchange is this one.

Tom Bauman: me 2. im going to lawschool after uri

He thinks he's going to be a lawyer. What is this I don't even.

http://jessicaahlquist.com/christian-love/

[doggie]

I'll be completely honest and say that I would be very uncomfortable with my child having any part in something like that...

why it is a great idea to learn about others belifs.

[AnnieC 305]

Oh, wait, let's talk about some of the things Christians have been saying about her on Twitter and Facebook.

“May that little, evil athiest teenage girl and that judge BURN IN HELL!â€

“yeah, well i want the immediate removal of all atheists from the school, how about that?â€

“Jessica Ahlquist may have won her case, but she’s going straight to hell. #Godovereverythingâ€

“I hope there’s lots of banners in hell when your rotting in there you atheist fuck #TeamJesusâ€

“If this banner comes down, hell i hope the school burns down with it!â€

“U little brainless idiot, hope u will be punished, you have not win sh..t! Stupid little brainless skunk!â€

“Fuck Jessica alquist I’ll drop anchor on her faceâ€

“definetly laying it down on this athiest tommorow anyone else?â€

“Nothing bad better happen tomorrow #justsaying #fridaythe13thâ€

“Let’s all jump that girl who did the banner #fuckthathoâ€

“literally that bitch is insane. and the best part is she already transferred schools because shes knows someone will jump her #ahahaâ€

“â€But for real somebody should jump this girl†lmao let’s do it!â€

“Hmm jess is in my bio class, she’s gonna get some shit thrown at herâ€

“I want to punch the girl in the face that made west take down the school prayer… #Honestlyâ€

“hail Mary full of grace @jessicaahlquist is gonna get punched in the faceâ€

“When I take over the world I’m going to do a holocaust to all the atheistsâ€

“gods going to fuck your ass with that banner you scumbagâ€

“I found it, what a little bitch lol I wanna snuff herâ€

“if I wasn’t 18 and wouldn’t go to jail I’d beat the shit out of her idk how she got away with not getting beat up yetâ€

“lol I wanna stick that bitch lolâ€

“nail her to a crossâ€

“We can make so many jokes about this dumb bitch, but who cares #thatbitchisgointohell and Satan is gonna rape her.â€

Found at the links below. Complete with screenshots

http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/201 ... ompassion/

http://jesusfetusfajitafishsticks.blogs ... stian.html

http://practicaldoubt.com/2012/01/14/no ... /#more-920

[Kelya]

holy shit those people are demented.

[DarkAnts]

God should stay religion should stay out of schools because its too sacred. Religion should be tough at home and at church. You cant expect a teach to be able to teach about god on top of everything else. They have far too much to teach as it is. If they were to teach it then it would be watered down and that could give the students the wrong ideas. Prayer by individuals is fine. Individuals should feel free to pray when ever they want. They should not force people to pray. Forced prayer will not lead to open and honest conversations with god. It will only lead to cooperation.

I told this to the pasture at my Lutheran high school. The school was run by the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod so it it did not go over well. But then again, many of the things I said did not go over well. They made me rethink what I believed. I no longer consider myself a christian. If there is a god then I dont consider him to be petty. The god that I read about in the bible would not damn someone to hell just because they never hear about him or Jesus. I read about a god that loved everyone. I read about a jesus that accepted everyone but hated hypocrites. The Jesus that I read about in the bible made it clear that I needed to care about my fellow man. I do my best to not hurt others and help those that are in need. I live this way and leave the rest up to the unknown.

The end to that wrong rant is that I agree and support this student. School should not be a place to study religion or organized prayer. It should be a place to learn critical thinking. Its valuable to all students no matter what they believe. For the atheist it will help them further their education. For the religious who may or may not continue with education, it will teach them to be critical of those who claim to have the key to salvation or speak the word of god.

[margiebargie]

Anniec, thanks for posting the facebook comments. They are not pleasant but they are informative. They highlight the mentality of way too many Christians. It certainly decimates the argument that superstitious belief in a god is the foundation for morality.

[debrand]

What is up with Christan teens? I realize that there are wonderful Christian adolescents who are kind and tolerant of others. However, cases like this have a frightening number who are willing to forgo the commands to turn the other cheek or do good to those that hate you. Remember the girl in Mississippi who wanted to take another girl to the prom? Her classmates did not exhibit a lot of love toward her.

The texts are threatening. Why can't the authorities get involved?

[DarkAnts]

What is up with Christan teens? I realize that there are wonderful Christian adolescents who are kind and tolerant of others. However, cases like this have a frightening number who are willing to forgo the commands to turn the other cheek or do good to those that hate you. Remember the girl in Mississippi who wanted to take another girl to the prom? Her classmates did not exhibit a lot of love toward her.

The texts are threatening. Why can't the authorities get involved?

Probably because they still assume that "boys will be boys" or that the teen deserves to be treated this way.

[mirele]

Probably because they still assume that "boys will be boys" or that the teen deserves to be treated this way.

Probably because they have such great examples in state Rep. Peter Palumbo:

In addition to calling Ahlquist an “evil little thing,†Palumbo also made the claim that “she (Ahlquist) is being coerced by evil people;†the implication being that atheists and other secular Americans are “evil.â€

http://www.examiner.com/humanist-in-nat ... a-responds

And because some people are butthurt about this banner, the police are going to be patrolling Cranston West High a little bit more starting today.

http://www2.turnto10.com/news/2012/jan/ ... ar-897959/

You know, this is the kind of thing that makes me say, over and over again, "Jesus save me from your followers."

[DarkAnts]

And because some people are butthurt about this banner, the police are going to be patrolling Cranston West High a little bit more starting today.

http://www2.turnto10.com/news/2012/jan/ ... ar-897959/

You know, this is the kind of thing that makes me say, over and over again, "Jesus save me from your followers."

What happens if a group of students decide to post a banner discounting god? Who is going to patrol and protect their rights?

[CanadianHippie]

What happens if a group of students decide to post a banner discounting god? Who is going to patrol and protect their rights?

The patrol is the protect the young lady who fought to have the banner removed. People have been threatening bodily harm and death to her.

[DarkAnts]

The patrol is the protect the young lady who fought to have the banner removed. People have been threatening bodily harm and death to her.

Thanks for the clarification. My internet is shady today due to snow and the story did not load completely. I will do my best to not respond before reading from now on. I will say that I am happy that my university did let me protest the anti abortion display at my school. I put up a sign next to their little crosses that explained the of what happened to unwanted children after they were born. I hope others are afforded the same rights.

[debrand]

What happens if a group of students decide to post a banner discounting god? Who is going to patrol and protect their rights?

The comments are so stupid. Some of these people really don't understand that the students right have not been taken away. They can still wear religious jewelry, have the words of the banner put on t-shirts or discuss their faith. No one is keeping them from practicing their beliefs.

These same people would be outraged if the school had allowed the student to put up a banner saying God is dead or I can be good without god.

[CanadianHippie]

Thanks for the clarification. My internet is shady today due to snow and the story did not load completely. I will do my best to not respond before reading from now on. I will say that I am happy that my university did let me protest the anti abortion display at my school. I put up a sign next to their little crosses that explained the of what happened to unwanted children after they were born. I hope others are afforded the same rights.

No one's perfect. :)

[debrand]

I posted under Mirele's link. Maybe some of you can also. It boggles my mind that Christian youth defend Jesus by not following his words.

[GeoBQn]

The 19K&C Facebook page posted about this story and asked for people's opinions. I don't have a strong enough constitution (no pun intended) to read the comments.

[lilwriter85]

The 19K&C Facebook page posted about this story and asked for people's opinions. I don't have a strong enough constitution (no pun intended) to read the comments.

I'll check out that page in awhile. I can predict that some of the comments will be "atheists are ebil". The Jessica Ahlquist story was out of the news for awhile, but is back in the news again because of the ongoing bullying and threats to her. Some religious leaders recently stood up for Jessica.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... s-defense/

[lilwriter85]

There are some comments on the the 19KAC page that aren't pro creationist or pro-religion and there some comments in support of separation of church and state.

A virus is a living thing. Living things are living things. If one living thing evolves, we can all evolve. Denouncing science is obsurd. how do you people fucntion?

Why would anyone want to believe in a religion that teaches Adam and Eve? Adam and Eve = A whole lot of incest.

I'm part of the support group for this cause. The separation of church and state DEFINITELY be upheld! If this was a satanic prayer being removed no one would be offended. It's time that doing the right thing should be the norm and not cause someone public ridicule.

I believe in the separation of church and state, mostly because just about any organization can qualify as a church now a days! Children can pray and worship at home with their family. That is where child need to be taught/modeled faith.

about an hour ago

I am dumbfounded at how uneducated people are! Really this is not an issues! The law clearly states public Schools are to be free of any religious propaganda! That's the law regardless of our opinions! You are not infringing on anyone's right by removing a poster of religious value! I get that it hurts some feelings and it sucks..... But School is a place for learning. Do you really want any outside source teaching your children about religion what if they teach them different then your beliefs! It's best if Religious beliefs are taught at home where you have more control over their indoctrination!

[lilwriter85]

I just checked the 19KAC page again and some people against Jessica posted the following comments.

I say homeschool your kids if you possibly can - and beware what tv you let them watch - I started watching the Christian Channel lately and it is very good but I swear I saw a cartoon on there that the goanna or whatever it was say CRIPES! I was like What did you just say? (Coming from a person - me who is only finding her God recently and who is trying not to swear like a Sailor)!

The kid just wants her 15mins of fame and the ppl who suggested she take it to court had their own agenda. That sign was not all prayer like - it was just some normal goals and behaviours that a 7th grader back in the 60's put together - the only religious things there is the top and bottom of it...either get over it or remove the top and bottom words.

wow so you can hand out free birth control and condoms at school but cant hang a banner that says In God We Trust whats wrong with this picture

There are a few small debates going on the 19kac page. But overall some comments are siding with Jessica.

[lilwriter85]

I had to laugh at the below comment. Most people don't get offended by adult porn convention banners, because those types of banners are never in public places that are run by the government. I'm sure some people get offended if they see porn convention banners at hotels or certain business owned places. But the person who left that comment can't seem to understand why Jessica and others don't want religious banners in public school.

John 3 : 16 and also God doesn't want to hurt anyone ! I find it funny how people blame God for the wrong in their life my mom passed and I have peace knowing she is with jesus whole again! How come when it comes to a sign about faith people are offended but are not offended by adult porn convention banners and so forth ! Wow just blows my mind

[fakepigtails73]

I'll be completely honest and say that I would be very uncomfortable with my child having any part in something like that...

Me too.

[valsa]

Me too.

Isn't that the whole point of school- to learn about the world around you? Religion is a big part of the world, though it's importance varies depending on where you live, and introducing the topic of a different religion to little kids is easier if you can connect it to something (or in this case, someone) they already know.

It's a lot harder to teach kids about, say, Judaism or Islam by saying "Okay, there are these people you don't know, who live far away, who do things that you would find very weird" than it is when you can say "Suzy's mom is here to tell us about a special holiday they celebrate at their house this week."

[GeoBQn]

Here's a gem posted by One Million Moms:

One Million Moms

The separation between church and state is called the rapture. Had to repost...

Like · · Share · about an hour ago ·